|
Your donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Rampant Games - More on Simplifying

Default Rampant Games - More on Simplifying

January 14th, 2011, 23:17
Jay Barnson writes about playing Eye of the Beholder recently and realising the simplicity of the gameplay. The short article actually muses about whether such simplicity could be brought to bear successfully with a modern product but it also opens a can of worms with some of those old classics:
Strip out any economy. Gathering gold – typically a staple of D&D-based RPGs – is outta there.
Strip out NPC interaction outside of combat. Or any idea of “quests” (which hadn’t quite gelled as a regular feature of RPGs at the time anyway).
Story is paper-thin, without much more plotline or background than your run-of-the-mill roguelike. […]
Though people who claim Diablo isn’t an RPG might be on thin ice maintaining that this game series is, in spite of it being based on the original dice-and-paper role-playing game rule system.
More information.
Dhruin is offline

Dhruin

Dhruin's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch
Super Moderator
RPGWatch Team

#1

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 11,968

Default 

January 14th, 2011, 23:17
Ugh, that last paragraph in the excerpt was a horrible tangent. I thought I'd deleted the whole thing before I posted, but it crept back in.

Anyway - I feel comfortable with both games being labeled as RPGs. Just suggesting that Diablo seems to encompass more traditional CRPG elements than Eye of the Beholder… so how would someone justify the latter being an RPG and the former not?

Not that this was the point of the article, but hey —- heated discussion!
RampantCoyote is offline

RampantCoyote

RampantCoyote's Avatar
SasqWatch

#2

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 588

Default 

January 14th, 2011, 23:21
Apologies for skewing the direction of the piece - I figured you'd forgive me in return for (perhaps) a greater level of discussion.

-= RPGWatch =-
Dhruin is offline

Dhruin

Dhruin's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch
Super Moderator
RPGWatch Team

#3

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 11,968

Default 

January 14th, 2011, 23:51
Absolutely. Just wondering if you'd weigh in with your own opinion on the matter.

At what point do you simplify a game down to such minimal "RPG elements" that it's no longer an RPG?

Surely by this point, right?

I don't really think of Desktop Dungeons as an RPG - and for a long time I didn't really think of Deus Ex as an RPG (but folks prevailed upon me with their cunning logic to see things their way). But in spite of wasting a lot of hours thinking about the subject, I'm not really sure I could draw an exact line and say, "Beyond this point, the game is no longer worthy of RPG-ness!"
Last edited by RampantCoyote; January 15th, 2011 at 00:14.
RampantCoyote is offline

RampantCoyote

RampantCoyote's Avatar
SasqWatch

#4

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 588

Default 

January 15th, 2011, 01:19
EOB was a great Dungeon Crawl with RPG elements!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

Editor@RPGWatch
Corwin is offline

Corwin

Corwin's Avatar
On The Razorblade of Life
RPGWatch Team

#5

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,608
Send a message via Skype™ to Corwin

Default 

January 15th, 2011, 11:38
Exactly the line of thinking i am taking in the RPG i am making. Good article
Twotricks is offline

Twotricks

Sentinel

#6

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 481

Default 

January 15th, 2011, 13:28
Menzoberranzan was practically built on the same engine but it had a great end game quest hub that made it feel much more like a true RPG. Similar to Ravenloft: Stone Prophet.
PegasusOrgans is offline

PegasusOrgans

PegasusOrgans's Avatar
Watchdog

#7

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 195

Default 

January 15th, 2011, 14:40
How many devils on a pinhead?

Is GTA: San Andreas an RPG?

And finally, try telling EOB has "simplified" gameplay to my 13-year-old self

(I like your site though!)
Last edited by zadokAllen; January 15th, 2011 at 14:43. Reason: coz it needed be done
zadokAllen is offline

zadokAllen

Sentinel

#8

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Innsmouth
Posts: 484

Default 

January 15th, 2011, 18:28
I think that depth can be more satisfying that breadth as stated in the article but is also more difficult to sell. Blizzard is the master of this balance and they make sure the fundamentals are there first and foremost but know that they do have to have a little flash as well but never at the expense of fundamentals. But its still easier to throw in the kitchen sink and it will still sell reasonably well as Bethesda can attest.

Can a game like EOB come out today? Yes but only for mobile devices or consoles. Braid was fairly simple but the mechanics were very well balanced so it was able do very well.
figment is offline

figment

figment's Avatar
Sentinel
RPGWatch Donor

#9

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 528

Default 

January 15th, 2011, 18:29
I tried playing Menzoberranzan, but I got bored pretty quickly. Sounds like it eventually picked up & became cool. I want to say I should try and pick it up again someday, but… dang, my backlog of RPGs at this point…

Twotricks - how far along are you? Please keep me (and I'm sure the staff here, who are awesomely supportive of indies) posted as you get close to release.

Heh - when I was a lot younger, "simplified" meant "dumbed down." And to be honest, whenever I hear that - especially with RPGs - that's still my knee-jerk reaction. 'Cuz too often it's true. But I think it really doesn't have to be.
RampantCoyote is offline

RampantCoyote

RampantCoyote's Avatar
SasqWatch

#10

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 588

Default 

January 16th, 2011, 18:16
Jay, now that you've played MMI you know a game can be simple an still quite exciting
Charles-cgr is offline

Charles-cgr

Charles-cgr's Avatar
Sentinel

#11

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 333

Default 

January 16th, 2011, 19:04
Haven't had time to complete that one yet (probably 'cuz I keep "grazing" on games in little 30-minute sessions), but I don't think I'd consider it quite as simple as EoB.
RampantCoyote is offline

RampantCoyote

RampantCoyote's Avatar
SasqWatch

#12

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 588
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Rampant Games - More on Simplifying
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:22.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch