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Default No Mutants Allowed - A History of Fallout Fandom

February 3rd, 2007, 14:09
None of those names mean a thing to me, and I've played every TES game including Arena!! I wonder if anyone doesn't know who Boo is?

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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February 3rd, 2007, 15:06
Yes, but you probably don't remember what year it is.

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February 3rd, 2007, 15:27
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
None of those names mean a thing to me, and I've played every TES game including Arena!! I wonder if anyone doesn't know who Boo is?
Come on. It's getting a bit silly now. Who remembers what NPC from a game is a pretty subjective matter and depends greatly on when a person has played a game (I for one can't remember a single NPC from Fallout simply because it's been several years since I last played the games) but if you can't even remember Lucien or The Gray Prince then I don't believe you when you say that you have really played Oblivion. Or maybe you have but probably not for more than five minutes. It's been under a year since that game came out. I'd have to assume an intentionally selective memory on your part just to make a point .
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February 3rd, 2007, 15:48
I admit that I haven't played Oblivion at all, and that I played Morrowind only a little bit before I got bored to death with the so-vast gameworld that I could not find anything in it armed with a walkthrough, but there are hardly any momorable NPC in it. I blame that on both the open-endness and the lack of dialogue. And probably for the lack of a strong storyline.

However, even as time passes, I remember pretty well notable NPC from most games I've played. Even Sacred and Diablo, who hardly qualify as proper RPGs, have memorable NPCs like Prince Vaalor or Cain and Tyrael. The most I remember from Morrowind are the stuck up elf Enchanter on top of the Mages guild and the cat-like alchemist in the basement, since they at least had a bit of character despite not having a sinlge good line assigned to them. When there are thousands of NPC created a certain level of blandness and indifference kicks in. I won't even mention games like Arcanum or Baldur's Gate that have at least half a dozen memorable NPC in each location.
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February 3rd, 2007, 16:13
Originally Posted by Acleacius View Post
"The problem is that fans don't want a Fallout sequel that isn't isometric and turn-based."
Well that maybe true and justified for many or even most Fallout fans.
I would wager however that, if say Troika had decided to make a more variable view game, for instance with a cam similar to NWN2 to allow personal preferences of perspective views, to maybe see new and improved graphics or whatever, it wouldn't have an negative effect, even to the fans whom only want an Iso view.
I would wager that there would be a whole lot of disappointment at the very least, if they decided to not go with an isometric perspective. They might have been given the benefit of doubt, unlike Bethesda, but that's only because several of the original FO creators worked at Troika.

Originally Posted by Moriendor View Post
Let me give you an example of fandom. Me. I'd consider myself a pretty big fan of the original Realms of Arkania trilogy that came to an end with Shadows over Riva in 1996. Ever since then there have been three attempts at games in the same world and setting (LMK, Armalion -both of which were cancelled- and Drakensang which is currently WIP).
That analogy is faulty: They're not making RoA 4, they're just making a new game that happens to be set in DSA-PnP-setting. If you had worried they might rape DSA's name, your complaint may have held some weight, but even so I suspect that the creators of DSA/their company had a say in licensing their franchise for Drakensang, meaning they would have themselves to blame. I just wish the Fallout developers had the same chance with FO3 (like, say, licensing it to themselves at Troika).

Originally Posted by abbaon View Post
A fan could appreciate something for what it was and not need to see it repeated a second time. That fan could want to try something that had never been done before — like a first-person, real-time game in the Fallout milieu — without wishing the original had taken that tack. I'm speaking hypothetically, since I fucking hated the mechanics of the first two games, but the idea that "a fan of something" must want to see that thing rehashed over and over is not necessarily the case.
Yes, which is why a lot of people look forward to Afterfall (if it ever even gets finished). Bethesda could easily have made their own post-apocalyptic FPS/RPG instead of (likely) besmirching the Fallout franchise further.

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February 3rd, 2007, 16:48
Bethsoft can make a great scripted dialogue if they want. Just look at redguard.

Its just that elder scrolls series has always been a kind of experiment to automatically create as good as possible dialogues with minimal scripting. You cant judge bethsofts ability to make good scripted dialogue according to that because it has never been a priority in the series. Fallout 3 though IS NOT elder scrolls.

Personally I have always thought the ES as doom with RPG elements where superb dialogue is not really important. This is very true especially if you have played the first game.
Last edited by zakhal; February 3rd, 2007 at 16:55.
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February 3rd, 2007, 16:54
Originally Posted by KazikluBey View Post
Yes, which is why a lot of people look forward to Afterfall (if it ever even gets finished). Bethesda could easily have made their own post-apocalyptic FPS/RPG instead of (likely) besmirching the Fallout franchise further.
My post should be read as a reply to hordespawn, discussing whether it was possible to be a fan of something and still desire try something new, not as a comment on what "a lot of people" would prefer. I don't care how the NMA crowd feels about Fallout 3.

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February 3rd, 2007, 17:07
think you're making wrong use of the term "fan". I really, really don't want to start another or continue the flame war from earlier (really, I don't ) but the people that you are probably referring to (regulars at RPGCodex and NMA) are not Fallout fans.
Eheheheh right, no need to reply to this, you really suck at reality

The rest of the discussion is interesting, and it's happening a bit everywhere now, check digg and V3d
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February 3rd, 2007, 17:12
Originally Posted by Briosafreak View Post
Eheheheh right, no need to reply to this, you really suck at reality
And you suck at quoting…
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February 3rd, 2007, 17:28
Originally Posted by Moriendor View Post
And you suck at quoting…
And you suck by ignoring that Drakensang is not a part of the RoA series while Fallout 3 will pretend to be so of the Fallout seroes.

You obviously enjoy the DSA setting. So do I. Enjoy it more than any other P&P RPG, I stumbled on the RoA trilogy *because* I was playing DSA P&P. As a fan of DSA, I'm looking forward to Drakensang and work on the drakensang.net website, but if it were pretending to be a Realms of Arkania game, I would be scratching my head going "why call it Realms of Arkania if it has nothing to do with Realms of Arkania."

Same goes for Fallout. It's not about bad or good games, but as hordespawn points out, why pretend to be a fan and then just shrug when you're given an entirely different game under the name of the original game?

This and more soon to be discussed in the second part of NMA's article!
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February 3rd, 2007, 17:49
KazikluBey
"I would wager that there would be a whole lot of disappointment……"
That maybe true but doesn't NWN2 offer a perspcetive of Iso, my example?
So I am not sure how this applies, I just think offering people a choice of voew is better becase more people can be happy and no one will be disappointed.
Unless I am just misunderstanding you?

zakhal
"You cant judge bethsofts ability to make good scripted dialogue……"
Well we can all certianly hope your correct as I don't think anyone here wants F3 to fail, it's just the prospects look dim.

So if Redguard had great dialogue why wouldn't that be a proiority in a (any) RPG bethseda or anyone is making?
I am just not sure I can wrap my head around what Bethseda is thinking when they don't think dialogue is important.

Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language…they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.
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February 3rd, 2007, 17:59
Originally Posted by Kharn View Post
And you suck by ignoring that Drakensang is not a part of the RoA series while Fallout 3 will pretend to be so of the Fallout seroes.
And you suck by ignoring that Fallout 3 has not officially been announced yet but that it is so far only a working title of Bethesda that they may or may not use for the final product.
"Drakensang" is just a name. It is effectively RoA 4. It doesn't really matter what it's called. Same with Fallout 3.
But thinking along those lines or admitting anything else would kill your hobby of Bethesda bashing and of being obsessed over a video game so feel free to continue ignoring any voices of reason.
I know that nothing in this world other than the resurrection of Troika and the reformation of the old FO team would make you guys come to your senses. Even then I doubt you'd be happy. You seem to be only happy if you can hate.
Well, what can I say? Everone's got to have a hobby. If yours is hating -fine- please enjoy yourselves.
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February 3rd, 2007, 18:23
And you suck by ignoring that Fallout 3 has not officially been announced yet but that it is so far only a working title of Bethesda that they may or may not use for the final product.
Hmmm you do know that's the contract they signed with Interplay, to produce Fallout3 and with an option to Fallout4 and 5?

Bethesda Softworks® announced today that it will develop and publish Fallout 3 — a sequel to the highly popular Fallout role-playing game franchise.
http://www.bethsoft.com/news/pressrelease_071004.htm

So, hmmmm, you really suck at this reality thing at a most profound level than I thought.

But thinking along those lines or admitting anything else would kill your hobby of Bethesda bashing and of being obsessed over a video game so feel free to continue ignoring any voices of reason.
Bethesda bashing? What? Ow I see now, a rabid Beth fanboy. Damn why did I wasted time with you anyway? And check the links I placed on the previous post, those are not Fallout fansites.

If yours is hating
You are the one with an irrational hatred for Fallout fans here, that is creating the parallel world where you live, spewing cliches while not contradicting any fact thrown at you, in the end coming with the Orwellian "Fallout fans are not fans".

You are pathetic, rabid and delusional, it must be hard to be you.

I won't continue with this Corwin and Dhruin, sorry for this waste of time.
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February 3rd, 2007, 18:32
Originally Posted by Briosafreak View Post
Ow I see now, a rabid Beth fanboy. Damn why did I wasted time with you anyway?
How long have you been waiting to pull that out of your ass ?
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February 3rd, 2007, 18:43
Originally Posted by Moriendor View Post
And you suck by ignoring that Fallout 3 has not officially been announced yet but that it is so far only a working title of Bethesda that they may or may not use for the final product.
No, I bet they bought the license to call it "Wastes of Oblivion"?

Their contract entitles them to make "Fallout 3". Read it. Fallout. Three. Too difficult for ya?

Originally Posted by Moriendor View Post
"Drakensang" is just a name. It is effectively RoA 4. It doesn't really matter what it's called. Same with Fallout 3.
Nope. One of the developers has stated explicitely that they are not making a 4th Realms of Arkania, that it will not be related to the NorthLandTrilogy and that, guess what, it will be marketed inside germany as a DSA cRPG and outside Germany as a cRPG, not even using DSA in the title.

So *buzz*. Please get back to me when you actually have a clue what you're talking about.

Originally Posted by Moriendor View Post
You seem to be only happy if you can hate.
Well, what can I say? Everone's got to have a hobby. If yours is hating -fine- please enjoy yourselves.
Ours is hating? Please point out where this has a foundation in reality, considering our history with Tactics, Van Buren and the Fallout Bibles
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February 3rd, 2007, 18:59
They've dropped the subtitle from the English language version?

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February 3rd, 2007, 18:59
Originally Posted by Acleacius View Post
So if Redguard had great dialogue why wouldn't that be a proiority in a (any) RPG bethseda or anyone is making?
I am just not sure I can wrap my head around what Bethseda is thinking when they don't think dialogue is important.
Would you like to write dialogue for every NPC in Daggerfall? Also TES is not RPG in the traditional sense. Its more like fantasy FPS with RPG elements.
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February 3rd, 2007, 19:53
Originally Posted by Briosafreak View Post
Hmmm you do know that's the contract they signed with Interplay, to produce Fallout3 and with an option to Fallout4 and 5?



http://www.bethsoft.com/news/pressrelease_071004.htm
There will be another press release in which they will announce the full title of the game, a tentative release date, a feature list and the platform(s) that the game is going to be released on. Mark my words and please spare a thought for me when that happens (not if because it will happen). Anyway, as I said, I'm not even doubting that they might name it Fallout 3 but it might also be something different. Point is: Why get your panties up in a bunch over a stupid name? Wait and see. Then judge.

Nope. One of the developers has stated explicitely that they are not making a 4th Realms of Arkania, that it will not be related to the NorthLandTrilogy and that, guess what, it will be marketed inside germany as a DSA cRPG and outside Germany as a cRPG, not even using DSA in the title.

So *buzz*. Please get back to me when you actually have a clue what you're talking about.
Yeah, I know most of that ("most" because I didn't know that they dropped 'The Dark Eye' from the title for the English version… you sure about that? I was pretty sure that they wanted to co-promote the P&P system with the game so it would make a lot of sense for them to keep/insist on the 'Dark Eye' label) but what is your point anyway? For the fans of the original games this is Realms of Arkania IV all the way. It doesn't matter to them that it's not set in the exact same region of Aventuria or that it's not part of the Northland trilogy (which naturally ended after three parts… d'oh) or that it's called Drakensang. This is the 4th DSA cRPG, thus DSA 4 for anyone who remembers the original series from 10+ years ago. Gaming mags (online and print) and many people are referring to the game as DSA 4 or the 4th DSA cRPG. The developers or their marketing people can yell 'This is not DSA/RoA 4' all day long. It doesn't make a difference.

Anyway, to get back to the point: In case of Drakensang there is no angry, hateful mob just waiting for Radon Labs to make a wrong move. If you check the German forums at Anaconda then you will find very friendly people who are discussing the game in a constructive matter. You will find people who -aside from a few old school dreamers- accept or even embrace the changes that their "DSA 4" is going to have (no 1st person view anymore, real-time with pause instead of turn-based combat etc). They are keeping an open mind and are waiting patiently for Radon Labs and dtp/Anaconda to publish more details.

And I'm sure that true Fallout "fans" are like that as well. As I said, you are not fans. You're unreasonable, obsessed haters. If you would be reasonable then you would accept that Fallout as you know it is dead and will never come back. And you'd move on. But instead you choose to get on the Internet and behave like hysterical little school girls. That's not normal behavior. Trust me.
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February 3rd, 2007, 22:10
Originally Posted by Moriendor View Post
There will be another press release in which they will announce the full title of the game, a tentative release date, a feature list and the platform(s) that the game is going to be released on. Mark my words and please spare a thought for me when that happens (not if because it will happen). Anyway, as I said, I'm not even doubting that they might name it Fallout 3 but it might also be something different. Point is: Why get your panties up in a bunch over a stupid name? Wait and see. Then judge.
Bethesda's Fallout 3 will be announced in March. Mark those words.

As for "a stupid name"…Panties in a bunch is the wrong term. If they use a name, they create expectancy that they will live up to that name. They did not do that with Morrowind or Oblivion, they did not do so with Star Trek…should I "trust them" to do it with Fallout?

Yeah, I know most of that ("most" because I didn't know that they dropped 'The Dark Eye' from the title for the English version… you sure about that? I was pretty sure that they wanted to co-promote the P&P system with the game so it would make a lot of sense for them to keep/insist on the 'Dark Eye' label) but what is your point anyway?
Olli:
"The title is Drakensang: The Dark Eye, but in Non-German-speaking territories we will focus communication much more on "Drakensang" than on "TDE" because it's not such a strong license as it is in German-speaking territories."

For the fans of the original games this is Realms of Arkania IV all the way.
Maybe for those who didn't pay attention, like you. Those that did pay attention know the developers made no false promises that this would be like Realms of Arkania, they simply made it clear that they admire those games, but it's not what they intend to make. They won't abuse the Realms of Arkania name. They won't use its setting. They won't use its story.

You seem to be arguing that this is the same as making a Fallout 3 that has nothing to do with the original two. How does that work, exactly?

It doesn't make a difference.
Yes it does, because they're being honest. They're not lying. They're not pretending their game is something it's not.

They are keeping an open mind and are waiting patiently for Radon Labs and dtp/Anaconda to publish more details.
Kind of like the Fallout fans around Fallout 2. Kind of like the Fallout fans around Fallout Tactics. Kind of like the Fallout fans around Van Buren…

But now the Fallout fans are acting differently against Bethesda! Logically, with everything being equal, that must somehow be the fans' fault, not Bethesda!

Your logic is not just bent, it already broke.

Also, I think you're not reading the same German DSA forum as I'm reading. The one I'm reading had a very harsh and flame-filled argument around the firebreathing Tatzelworm. Don't pretend things aren't so when they are. What's next, are you going to say Star Trek fans are all happy with Bethesda's published Legacy and only Fallout fans are unreasonable?

As I said, you are not fans. You're unreasonable, obsessed haters. If you would be reasonable then you would accept that Fallout as you know it is dead and will never come back.
" Ours is hating? Please point out where this has a foundation in reality, considering our history with Tactics, Van Buren and the Fallout Bibles"

Ignoring what someone says and then just making the same argument is a form of weakness. If you don't actually have any foundation in reality as to our being "unreasonable, obsessed haters", then just admit you're wrong, but don't just keep repeating it when you know it's false. Did you read NMA's article? Did you click the refs to see what Fallout fans were saying? Did you see the interest in Van Buren? Did you see the excitement around Fallout Tactics?

In other words, back your statement up with facts, because I call your bullshit.
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February 4th, 2007, 01:34
This is too easy
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