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Default Dragon Age 2 - Quick Look at Giant Bomb

February 8th, 2011, 21:39
In this thread at the Bioware forums, Shepard N7, a forumite, links to Giant Bomb's quick look for this game. The coverage is from the Xbox 360 version of the game and features 11 minutes of gameplay. It starts with an interview with Mike Laidlaw, the Lead Designer, and he also comments on the game. The quick look starts in sort of an undergound structure and shows some of the monsters you'll meet. Since this is the first version of any gameplay we've seen, it might be worth to take a look.
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February 8th, 2011, 21:39
Well, I have to admit that I've been optimistic, and have repeatedly chided people here for criticizing this game when it hasn't even been released.

But this video makes it look pretty bad. I guess I'm a Bioware fan boy in that I'll buy it and play it to see for myself. And I loved Mass Effect 1&2. But the footage shown here just looks bad. The graphics look slightly worse than the first Dragon Age, too clean and sparkling geometric. And the action looks chaotic.

I'll pick it up for PC some time when I get my new laptop, but I'm very disappointed with what was shown in this video.
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February 8th, 2011, 22:16
I will save my money for the Witcher 2. Dont forget after they release this game they will release DLC every month for a year. I just dont understand why, DA:O was a good game why why why did they go backward with DA2?
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February 8th, 2011, 23:08
Originally Posted by rich ruffo View Post
DA:O was a good game
It tried to be a good game, but it wasn`t allowed. Disgusting DLC shenanigans, overall trying to please, oh-so-slick-but-predictable dialogue. Combat that nearly got it - but didn`t really. Tedious enemies. Useless "tactics", best switched off completely. Etc..

But, I put up with it and carried on. Then Fade appeared -worst case of padding since, well, beginning of time probably, and I had enough.

So now I`m free of this Bioware dilemma. I`ll play some Mass Effects and really hope they either stop on DA2 or turn it totally into bubblegum, this way removing any pretense of being a serious RPG dev.

EDIT: oh, forgot - IMO :P
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February 8th, 2011, 23:21
Originally Posted by zadokAllen View Post
It tried to be a good game, but it wasn`t allowed. Disgusting DLC shenanigans, overall trying to please, oh-so-slick-but-predictable dialogue. Combat that nearly got it - but didn`t really. Tedious enemies. Useless "tactics", best switched off completely. Etc..

But, I put up with it and carried on. Then Fade appeared -worst case of padding since, well, beginning of time probably, and I had enough.

So now I`m free of this Bioware dilemma. I`ll play some Mass Effects and really hope they either stop on DA2 or turn it totally into bubblegum, this way removing any pretense of being a serious RPG dev.

EDIT: oh, forgot - IMO
Good luck with that wish Bioware's vision of a serious Rpg is making a game cinematic and pushing DLC. According to the docs they learned there lesson with masseffect and we all know what crap was offered. Someone stated before bioware was always heading in this direction since KOTOR. We didn't complain then but now we do.

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Last edited by Couchpotato; February 9th, 2011 at 00:05.
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February 8th, 2011, 23:48
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Someone state before bioware was always heading in this direction since KOTOR. We didn't complain then buy now we do.
Yeah, and I didn`t really have a problem with it. But DA:O was supposed to be an exception, for old time`s sake - and I believed it.

But it`s all over now, I`ve got my first Drakensang and couldn`t be happier
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February 9th, 2011, 00:10
Originally Posted by zadokAllen View Post
Yeah, and I didn`t really have a problem with it. But DA:O was supposed to be an exception, for old time`s sake - and I believed it.

But it`s all over now, I`ve got my first Drakensang and couldn`t be happier
It took 8 years to finish dragonage and in that time the design changed more than once. I have a old copy when dragonage was first announced and it was a different game. Delays and new project leads seemed to change the game for worst. What we got was still a good game but has nothing to compare to old time`s sake.

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February 9th, 2011, 01:36
Well, I'm still in. After all, I'm not going to judge a game based on press releases and a short video clip.

Bioware has admittedly moved away from more complex RPGs, but has consistently put out good to great games. I enjoy some game genres other than RPGs so perhaps I'm more the target audience than some folks here. Personally I think Mass Effect 1&2 are better GAMES than DA1, though are less RPG-ish.

Whatever. I play video games to have fun, not to follow some purist route of RPG snobbery. They're just games. If you don't like playing them, you probably could find something better to do with your time.
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February 9th, 2011, 01:38
R.I.P old Bioware?
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February 9th, 2011, 01:44
Originally Posted by zadokAllen View Post
EDIT: oh, forgot - IMO
You've done well my young Padawan.

Dragon Age certainly wasn't bad though. It might have been Bioware's best game since the BG series. That isn't really saying much because most of what Bioware has done since the BGs has been very "average" imo.

DA2 isn't high on my list of 2011 games though, and I won't be buying it at release.
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February 9th, 2011, 02:05
Ah, anyway, it`s not like cards ain`t on the table :)
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February 9th, 2011, 02:23
Originally Posted by Ovenall View Post
Well, I'm still in. After all, I'm not going to judge a game based on press releases and a short video clip.

Bioware has admittedly moved away from more complex RPGs, but has consistently put out good to great games. I enjoy some game genres other than RPGs so perhaps I'm more the target audience than some folks here. Personally I think Mass Effect 1&2 are better GAMES than DA1, though are less RPG-ish.

Whatever. I play video games to have fun, not to follow some purist route of RPG snobbery. They're just games. If you don't like playing them, you probably could find something better to do with your time.
Well when a company that started on the purist route its taken a complete 360. Sure take what you love and throw it out the window just to enjoy a game from a company that doesn't care anymore. Well that's one reason to give up on a company and my hobby. I'm tired of hearing and being called a purist for having standards on how an rpg should be. I'm not going to be a company apologetic stooge and love the game just because its bioware and they never let you down. I hate there new direction and will hate it in the future.But then wait if I remember bioware never wanted to make rpgs in the first place. You can thank interplay for forcing them to make baldurs gate. The docs stated this in a interview.

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February 9th, 2011, 02:31
Originally Posted by zadokAllen View Post
Ah, anyway, it`s not like cards ain`t on the table


I was also fairly unimpressed by the footage. First of all, the graphics are just atrocious. The art is even worse than I thought, and the simple geometry of the character models looks very strange. Definitely a downgrade from Origins judging by these 11 minutes. Sure, graphics aren't everything, but it's nice to have some atmosphere-boosting graphics in a linear RPG. Why would I want to be guided down corridors if they don't even look all that pretty?

One thing's very clear from this: I'm not buying the console version, because the combat really does look quite different on PC and consoles. Even though I recently got an "old" PC from my brother that's quite a lot better than my previous PC, I still doubt it will be able to run DA2. So as far as I'm concerned, I'm not buying the game until I get a new PC, and that could take longer than a year.

Speaking of the combat, was I the only one that thought it all looked incredibly chaotic? I could hardly follow what was going on. Hawke's hammer was swinging all over the place. And that fight with that rock demon was over before I even noticed it had started. I think the faster pace means either two things: an increased reliance on using the pause feature or a downgrade in difficulty. I'm pretty sure it will be the latter.

I still don't get the motivations behind switching from a "traditional" dialogue system to the dialogue wheel. He said that players in ME often complained that Shepard said things the player didn't want to say. I totally agree with that. It happened to me all the time. But why address an issue from ME in DA? I think no one complained about DA's dialogue system. It was more than fluid enough, because there wasn't too much camera panning/switching (except in some more dramatic scenes). And I usually prefer my character silent, but I suppose I'm not going to complain about that anymore.

One of the worst parts of the video was the punch Hawke gave to the demon. Mind you, I like the ability to punch whatever I like in a game, but that was once of the most unconvincing scenes in recent memory. That facepunch somehow felt like a… a gesture. As if it was normal to hand out facepunches to people you dislike in the DA2 society. I almost expected Hawke to bow and say "I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUEL!", after which they played checkers to decide the victor.

As usual, we'll see when it's released. Somehow I still hope that the game will be quite different from what they've shown right now. DA:O also didn't impress me much before it was released, but ended up really enjoying it.
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February 9th, 2011, 02:31
Couchpotato:

It's OK. You never, ever have to play a Bioware game ever again. Ever.

I never tried Jade Empire, but I loved Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, KOTOR, NWN, Dragon Age and both Mass Effects. I really don't give a rat's ass about Bioware as a company, but I enjoy their games. Some games of theirs I like more than others but it's pretty immature to have hurt feelings over a game developer's games.

And I'm not being an "apologist stooge" because I enjoy different games. For god's sake man, get real. I wouldn't play the damn things if I didn't enjoy them. I suggest you do the same. Have a sandwich or something. A beer might help.

I don't understand the hurt feelings people have around here about Bioware. They're a business. They are in the business of selling games, not in recreating the same isometric, turn-based strategy, party-based CRPGs with deep dialog choices and consequences that color your rose-tinted memories of the nineteen nineties. They make games. Some of these games won't be the same as the older ones they made.
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February 9th, 2011, 02:36
The GameSquid:

I agree with much of what you said, except for the dialog wheel. I welcome change here. I've been replaying the BG series and the dialog is often completely ludicrous. Just because you can read every last word you're going to say DOES NOT make it better. Much of the dialog "choice" in those games was stupid. I actually think I'd prefer prompting a sort of hint to the dialog and then have it revealed, versus the old method which we've all seen and played though a hundred times.

We'll see, but it's a feature that needs to be evolved in my opinion.
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February 9th, 2011, 02:45
Originally Posted by Ovenall View Post
The GameSquid:

I agree with much of what you said, except for the dialog wheel. I welcome change here. I've been replaying the BG series and the dialog is often completely ludicrous. Just because you can read every last word you're going to say DOES NOT make it better. Much of the dialog "choice" in those games was stupid. I actually think I'd prefer prompting a sort of hint to the dialog and then have it revealed, versus the old method which we've all seen and played though a hundred times.

We'll see, but it's a feature that needs to be evolved in my opinion.
I agree that Baldur's Gate has indeed aged quite a bit in that regard (It's still one of my all time favourites though). As I said, I think DA:O did it very well. The reason why I hate the wheel so much is because I like to imagine that my character says the things that appear on screen. The dialogue wheel gives three problems for me:
1) I often ended up saying things that I didn't want to say in ME and ME2
2) When I actually did say the things I wanted to say, it was often with a tone or emotion that I didn't intend either
3) The character is voiced, which, for me, removes my attachment to that character

Now, one could say that issue 2) is solved by the addition of the "emotion icon". I don't agree. In a game like DA:O, the lines were susceptible to "emotional interpretation". You know 100% what you were saying, but you could imagine HOW your character would say it. If there was a crass a rude remark to be made, some players might say that to insult a character, while other players might have intended to say it in a more humorous way.

The difference may seem small, but it made a huge difference for me in ME and ME2.

I'm not saying that the dialogue wheel itself is a terrible thing, but the way it's currently implemented is pretty flawed IMO. And because conversations are so important in an RPG, this is a pretty issue for me. I actually liked Alpha Protocols approach more, but I honestly can't tell you why
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February 9th, 2011, 03:00
Even though I'm a big BioWare fan, I just can't shake the feeling the game doesn't look finished.
I know its a different style than the first one but still… its all so bland.
Really do hope that the story makes up for it.

First time I'm gonna do this for a BioWare game, but this one I'll purchase after the reviews are out and read gamers opinions.
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February 9th, 2011, 03:08
Originally Posted by Ovenall View Post
Couchpotato:

It's OK. You never, ever have to play a Bioware game ever again. Ever.

I never tried Jade Empire, but I loved Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, KOTOR, NWN, Dragon Age and both Mass Effects. I really don't give a rat's ass about Bioware as a company, but I enjoy their games. Some games of theirs I like more than others but it's pretty immature to have hurt feelings over a game developer's games.

And I'm not being an "apologist stooge" because I enjoy different games. For god's sake man, get real. I wouldn't play the damn things if I didn't enjoy them. I suggest you do the same. Have a sandwich or something. A beer might help.

I don't understand the hurt feelings people have around here about Bioware. They're a business. They are in the business of selling games, not in recreating the same isometric, turn-based strategy, party-based CRPGs with deep dialog choices and consequences that color your rose-tinted memories of the nineteen nineties. They make games. Some of these games won't be the same as the older ones they made.
And that is why I have more faith in obsidian. They know how to craft better games but suffer from bugs. A game with minimal inventory/stats/ or just plain cinematics does not make a great RPG. Say what you want but the company has lost its focus. If you enjoy the games fine good for you. I will continue to look through my rose tinted windows and play games that were true rpgs. Now ts all about graphics and oversimplifying.

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February 9th, 2011, 03:19
It tried to be a good game, but it wasn`t allowed.
How the heck does a game try to be good - or bad for that matter? If you meant to say "epic" I could understand, and perhaps even agree… Ultimately that's irrelevant, if you're(the greater RPG community) that tough to please I can't fault Biowhore for moving onto greener pastures.

IMO DA:O wasn't as bad as you make it out to be. I actually enjoyed the whole origins concept, they were almost mini games within the main campaign that allowed you to(at least somewhat) Role play. I thought Shale was one of the more memorable/unique companions in recent(~2 yrs) CRPG history. I will concede that, conceptually, dark spawn and some of the other lore was kinda well lame/silly and Tolkeinesque(how many fantasy worlds are willing to shed the dwarven and elven races or even their long held attributes - longevity, grace/beauty ect ?). But originality was never bioware's strong suit. They make high/epic fantasy games. Their ME universe is somewhat original, but IIRC they hired an outside writer to craft if for them, no?

Honestly, I don't understand how you can like ME and not DA:O. Even if you qualify ME as a shooter with some minor RPG elements it's a piss poor duck and cover with narrow corridors, repetitive combat, a conversation wheel that may or may not convey what it is you're going to say/do and it's cinematic. Oh and you single-handedly save the whole galaxy. It's fairly formulaic - a la bioware.



Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Well when a company that started on the purist route its taken a complete 360


So they're still purists, right? JK, I know what you meant.
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February 9th, 2011, 03:23
Couchpotato:

I just noticed you're in Chicago. Me too. I'm downtown in Printer's Row, just south of the Loop. Where are you?

Look, no hard feelings. My point is that there are games that exist that aren't whatever your particular definition of "true RPG" is. And sometimes they're fun.

And about the dialog wheel again- The cinematic style practically needs it. Does this mean I think it's perfect? No. But for instance in Dragon Age 1, the dialog would go on between characters, cutting back and forth. Then suddenly there's a wole bunch of text to choose from a list at the bottom. There's a long awkward pause while you read each option. In the meantime your character is standing like a dummy staring into space. Pick an option and the scene continues. It was farcical.

Again, do I think it's the best thing since a twenty-sided die? No. But it worked to move the scenes along. And again again again… look back on the old games and the so called awesome dialog lists they had. They sucked in their own way.

You know- one more thing. Bioware was ripped on by fans of "true RPGs" back in the 90s when they came out with Baldur's Gate, because it was viewed that they were trying to cash in on the Diablo craze by making the turn-based nature optional (with optional pause feature). This same argument has been going on as to what is a "true RPG" since Gary Gygax decided it would be more fun to have a magic system implemented in his tabletop miniature medieval battle campaigns.
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