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Default Risen 2 - First Screens!

February 23rd, 2011, 02:48
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Yes, I'm aware you're changing your original opinion. Now it's simply less of a cliche.
That's not really a change of opinion, more like an elaboration of one. That'll happen in conversation sometimes. I said originally that it was a cliche "in general," then when prompted by your phrasing of a question, said it was "less of a cliche" in the RPG world. I understand you're trying to discredit me (I've come to expect it), but that's not a change of opinion.

Here is (I hope) a clearer statement. An overused motif (cliche) in general or in one genre can be relatively original content when used in a different medium or genre. Happens all the time. Star Wars is filled with the themes and structure of myths told repeatedly throughout the millenia — certainly "cliche" in that sense (at least to anyone familiar with myth). Yet when it came out, all you heard was how original and groundbreaking it was. When TV programs first got created, most of the stories were the same as told on radio, in dime novels, or in books for many years prior —nothing original about them, very cliche — and yet people ate it up because the new medium/presentation made it novel.

The same is true of themes and character types that jump genres, though of course to a lesser degree than jumping media. Mario and Luigi are overused (cliche) characters in Nintendo platformers, but they would strike us as unusual if they were featured in an FPS.

Nope, you simply missed the point. It wasn't about one example being more or less cliche than the other, I was just giving a demonstration of the logic you're trying to use.
A poor illustration, if that was your intent. Try listening to the logic first, rather than coming up with counterexamples in order to try to win an argument. You just end up looking like you don't get it.

You even managed to help prove my point by mentioning how often the general concept has been used recently.
Yeah, you like to argue, don't you? I've never disagreed with you that the concept has been overused. In fact I started our interchange by agreeing with you that the character was cliche "in general" (to elaborate that a bit — I mean in film and on TV, not everywhere necessarily). I guess that's the point (or just before that) at which you stopped really listening to anything I was saying.

As I said, it's cliche "in general", but you can use all the semantics you want in pretending otherwise.
Thank you very much.

A down & out alcoholic will be a nice change of pace for the RPG genre. It hasn't been done to death like the Tolkein fantasy tropes and a bunch of other stuff. The fact that it's been overdone in some films and TV doesn't matter much to me, since I haven't seen many of those movies or shows. I can understand why, though, if you've seen a lot of them, you'd be sick of it.

"In the laws of nature, an intelligence so superior is revealed that in comparison all the significance of human thinking and human arrangements is a completely worthless reflection." - Einstein
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February 23rd, 2011, 03:09
Originally Posted by Anderson View Post
That's not really a change of opinion, more like an elaboration of one. That'll happen in conversation sometimes. I said originally that it was a cliche "in general," then when prompted by your phrasing of a question, said it was "less of a cliche" in the RPG world. I understand you're trying to discredit me (I've come to expect it), but that's not a change of opinion.
There's no need to try and discredit you (nice try though), your original post is right there for everyone to see. It clearly seems like you were implying that it wasn't a cliche at all because it's a crpg. Perhaps that's not how you meant to sound, but that's the way it came off.


Originally Posted by Anderson View Post
A poor illustration, if that was your intent. Try listening to the logic first, rather than coming up with counterexamples in order to try to win an argument. You just end up looking like you don't get it.
No, it wasn't actually, and I'm not arguing with anyone. Just pointing something out that you can't seem to accept. Not sure why you would be so quick to call it an argument just because it doesn't coincide with you own view.

Originally Posted by Anderson View Post
Yeah, you like to argue, don't you. I've never disagreed with you that the concept has been overused. In fact I started our interchange by agreeing with you that the character was cliche "in general" (to elaborate that a bit — I mean in film and on TV, not everywhere necessarily). I guess that's the point (or just before that) at which you stopped really listening to anything I was saying.
Interesting that you would think that I'm the one who is arguing, as if your opinion is somehow more valid. And no, I never stopped listening to what you said. I found your semantics amusing at least, and now your accusations as well.

Originally Posted by Anderson View Post
Thank you very much.
I've been saying the same thing the entire time. Go back and look at my very first reply to you, where I said "It's an old, tired cliche in general." Don't try to act as if I'm suddenly saying something different, as your snyde "Thank you" would imply.
Last edited by JDR13; February 23rd, 2011 at 04:08. Reason: Added last comment
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February 23rd, 2011, 10:37
I just want people to notice I'm not part of this!

(sorry)
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February 23rd, 2011, 10:39
It did feel like something was missing.
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February 24th, 2011, 23:14
I think "down and out alcoholic" would have been a worse cliche in a spy- or police RPG. The archetype does exist in RPGs, but usually as a sidekick rather than as player character

Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
To be fair you have to agree with Arkadia7. They said its the same hero from risen and the game was not set in a gunpowder age. How do you go from a medieval metal age to a pirate theme with guns. Unless the people had a huge leap of technology in a short time. Also hearing there will be no swords or metal armor its following what fable 2 did. but that game was 100's of years ahead of the first game.
Optimistic and probably way too forgiving an interpretation ahead:

Nah, it's not such a huge leap of technology as history isnt discrete. Darklands (set in a "realistic" medieval Germany) had guns which was historically correct. Think conquistadors and Columbus for a merge of the medieval and "pirate" themes Limiting metal armour seems unnecessary but could probably be rationalised as such armours being impractical in a tropical/nautical setting (though I'd prefer them to still be in, if only for the esthethics). Metal armours werent terribly common in Risen 1 anyway. That a semi-civilised backwater island like the one in Risen (which made me think of Corsica with local mafia bosses hiding in the wilderness when the mainlanders come to visit) doesnt have cutting edge technology like firearms isnt all that implausible either.

On the whole I guess firearms could be implemented as extra slow crossbows, but I'd be fine without them.

Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I agree with GhanBuriGhan's suggestion that perhaps a seperate IP would have been better if PB really wants to focus on the pirate theme.

Or perhaps a spin-off story that takes place in the same world, featuring one of the pirates from Risen. Maybe someone like Gregorious Steelbeard, who is repeatedly mentioned, but never encountered.
That could work as well (and why does the sequel need to feature the same hero once more?), but I think the Risen island already had a mediterranean or possibly Carribean feel to it. In some ways it was already closer to a pirate theme than to your average western Europe medieval theme.
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February 24th, 2011, 23:18
Originally Posted by Zaleukos View Post
That could work as well (and why does the sequel need to feature the same hero once more?), but I think the Risen island already had a mediterranean or possibly Carribean feel to it. In some ways it was already closer to a pirate theme than to your average western Europe medieval theme.
It's been confirmed you play the same hero from Risen again in Risen 2. Check in the Risen threads on here for the links.

And yeah, Risen already had a sort of Caribbean flavor… not as obvious as Risen 2 seems to though.
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