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Default Dragon Age 2 - Shorter but More Cinematic

March 1st, 2011, 19:39
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
I disagree that length is irrelevant, however for a middle game in a trilogy (or series) I would be more than happy with 40 hours, assuming they can knock out the next in the series quickly enough.

Regarding word count, I would expect there's far less need to have all the texts on background lore that the first game had - that was introducing the setting after all.

I do agree however that my objections to DA2 remain in place regardless of these figures.
Actually, a substantial savings on word count comes from the lack of multiple origin / race based dialog conditionals.

I haven't played the demo but from videos my heart has sunk a bit due to DA:O being a favorite RPG in recent memory. Still, I agree, 40 hours isn't bad. It just makes the Mass Effect comparisons feel more solid (though, in fairness, Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 were fun rides.. just paltry RPGs).
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March 1st, 2011, 20:35
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
I know this thread will devolve into another repetitive slanging match but please leave out any personal insults in the ensuing melee.

From my personal perspective, the length of a game has no relation to the quality and I already assumed DA2 was shorter. For those who are going to argue that Dragon Age 2 is crap (as well it may, or may not be), I would suggest the length is subsequently irrelevant.


so, basically you are saying that size does not matter…
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March 1st, 2011, 20:46
So they removed 600,000 words? Shocking.

Pre-order cancelled.
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March 1st, 2011, 21:07
Wow, this thread really blew up quick. A few points…

First, I agree that DA:O had a lot of "filler" combat, and most of it was very easy once you got the hang of things. Sure there were a variety of different tactics you could use, but you didn't really need them for the majority of encounters. Very few of the battles felt "just right" to me in terms of challenge.

For anyone boasting about how they've played through DA:O five times (or whatever ridiculous number), I'm glad you enjoyed it that much, but….seriously? There are way too many other good games out there to spend that much time playing one game, assuming you're not full of shit. That's just my opinion though, don't take it the wrong way.

I doubt the majority of people finished PS:T in under 20 hours on their first playthough. Of course not everyone can be an elite gamer who claims to replay just about everything several times per year.
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March 1st, 2011, 21:14
i'm more than happy with a 40 hour campaign. Its still a lot longer than a lot of RPGs these days. By the end of Origins I was mostly just playing in order to finish it off and see out the storyline anyway - I would have been happy if it had been 20 hours shorter.

The problem is that after playing the demo I've got a horrible feeling that 30 of these 40 hours will be spent fighting 'another wave' of baddies. The remaining 10 will be cutscenes
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March 1st, 2011, 21:39
Originally Posted by rich ruffo View Post
40 hours isnt that bad plus Bioware creates their games to revolve around DLC . BIG DLC PLANS ! Games that are to long might overwhelm the average gamer, this is the new model .
I predict a big expansion in one year and around 8 dlc packs if you go by there track record.

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March 1st, 2011, 21:39
I pretty much agree with JDR on this.

But for me, when combat became too repetitive, I'd switch out party members to force myself to use different approaches. Never got bored of the combat by constantly challenging myself this way. This was on hard, and I had the automated tactics COMPLETELY disabled…
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March 1st, 2011, 21:53
Couch, I say expantion in around six months. Meanwhile between 8 to 15 DLC. Remember EA is getting very ballsy with DLC and go for quick cash kill.
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March 1st, 2011, 21:55
Originally Posted by Gaxkang View Post
… Farewell Wynne, and sorry for having specialized you as as a blood mage - that was mean of me…
Wynne as a blood mage - shame on you!! Such blasphemy

Numbers, numbers… I found it kinda funny talking about game lenght of RPGs. It depends on player and how he is playing the game. I spend almost 119 hrs in DAO, trying to make every side-quest, read everything in codex, looking for every chest etc and returning to closed chests when Leliana's lock-picking get better. Not for loot, but to find every single piece of lore.

Game difficulty, challenge…: I was playing my first playthroug of DAO on hard and I was having some really troubling moments. I canceled it after about 80 hrs or so. Got bored of my character . I started all over on medium and I enjoy it more. I like the feeling beeing a strong and powerfull hero when fighting not so difficult enemies (filler-battles) later in game, but there was still some challenging battles for me, like Flemeth. But there was no frustration like on hard, where I had to load and load some boss-battles all over again to finish them.
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March 1st, 2011, 22:03
Originally Posted by MrSanta78 View Post
Numbers, numbers… I found it kinda funny talking about game lenght of RPGs. It depends on player and how he is playing the game. I spend almost 119 hrs in DAO, trying to make every side-quest, read everything in codex, looking for every chest etc and returning to closed chests when Leliana's lock-picking get better. Not for loot, but to find every single piece of lore.
That's pretty much how I play as well. I'm definitely a completist when it comes to RPGs, and I tend to milk them for everything they're worth on my first playthrough. That's also the primary reason why I tend not to replay them until at least a few years have passed.
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March 1st, 2011, 22:22
Originally Posted by rich ruffo View Post
Couch, I say expantion in around six months. Meanwhile between 8 to 15 DLC. Remember EA is getting very ballsy with DLC and go for quick cash kill.
You could be right but remember it has to sell 10 million copy's. If not DLC makes them more. I remember Peter Molyneux saying he needed to sell 5 million fable 3 and it barely sold 2.5 million. Its called high expectations.

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March 1st, 2011, 22:54
Thanks for the reasonably rational discussion.

Regarding length, I agree RPGs benefit from some sort of length to develop relationships but I think that line is quite a bit shorter than most people imagine.

Fallout 1 is comfortably in my top 5 ever - as it should be for most CRPG players - and it's hard to stretch that past 20 hours. As mentioned, PS:T - the wordiest game ever - isn't very long (whether you want to argue 20 or 36 hours).

Clearly, if you are enjoying a game, you want more of it. For those who just think a longer game is better value just for the sake of being a longer game, get back to me when you are no longer students and value your own play time more than a dollar-per-hour equation.

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March 1st, 2011, 22:58
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
Clearly, if you are enjoying a game, you want more of it. For those who just think a longer game is better value just for the sake of being a longer game, get back to me when you are no longer students and value your own play time more than a dollar-per-hour equation.
hahaha, this is so true!
still some long ones like Morrowind have a special place in my heart due mostly to being so big.
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March 1st, 2011, 23:26
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
For anyone boasting about how they've played through DA:O five times (or whatever ridiculous number), I'm glad you enjoyed it that much, but….seriously? There are way too many other good games out there to spend that much time playing one game, assuming you're not full of shit. That's just my opinion though, don't take it the wrong way.
That would be me.First of all, i wasn't boasting.. not that type of person - just wanted to emphasize on the fact that I've played with every(well - almost)class & Party combos.I generally consider it an easy game which has some room for different tactics - but most of the time i find myself using the same pattern to overcome *most* of the fights, over and over.Like i said before, maybe it's just me.

I'm also amazed that you are amazed by the amazingly and ridiculously 'high number of times that I have replayed DA:O, different points of view there.. what can I say - people differ.

p.s. get your antidepressants ready: for I have finished VTM:B twelve times.
Last edited by Cerberus; March 18th, 2012 at 06:41. Reason: OCD
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March 1st, 2011, 23:26
Dhruin:

Right on about game length.

Not to mention when you're older and busier, you can't play as regularly either… not just a matter of hours. Putting a game down and then having to come back to it 4 or 7 days later can be completely bewildering without a really robust map/journal/quest tracker system.

And who wants to pick up a game for an hour or two every 3-4 days just to fight the same filler battles? Make them shorter or at least more focused… and definitely better.
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March 1st, 2011, 23:58
Originally Posted by screeg View Post
Q. Why don't they just skip the gameplay part (I would argue that they substantially have already) and just make a film?

A. You can't charge people $60 to go see a film.
Thats what Chris from origins ended up doing after the cinematics in wing commander were not enough anymore.

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March 2nd, 2011, 00:33
Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
I'm also amazed that you are amazed by the amazingly and ridiculously 'high number of times that i have replayed DA:O, different points of view there.. what can i say - people differ
I think it's safe to say that most people would be a bit surprised. We're not talking about a "classic" here. It's been less than 16 months since DA:O was released.

I wasn't trying to imply that there was anything "wrong" about it. I'm just more of a variety guy myself.


Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
p.s. get your antidepressants ready: for i have finished VTM:B twelve times.
Not hard to believe considering how long ago it was released. It's also quite short by RPG standards. Great game btw, it's easily in my top 10 as far as crpgs go.
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March 2nd, 2011, 00:43
Originally Posted by SAGO View Post
ME3 will be so awesome and streamlined that when you install it, all you have to do is press a space bar and the game will play itself and then uninstall once it's done.
lol, good one.

I'm thinking they should just dispense with character stats in DA 3 all together, because its too difficult to choose when leveling up for many gamers today. I saw a thread begging for an auto-level up option in DA 2 on their official forums, and why not just remove the bother completely in the cause of further streamlining…
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March 2nd, 2011, 00:47
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
Clearly, if you are enjoying a game, you want more of it. For those who just think a longer game is better value just for the sake of being a longer game, get back to me when you are no longer students and value your own play time more than a dollar-per-hour equation.
Not a valid point for me but true if you have a family. Thank god I work in the inventory business long hrs but only have to supervise four days a week. Haven't been a student in years. The point is the game is different. When you change something people love you will have people worried.

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March 2nd, 2011, 00:53
I'm personally more on the side of wanting games to fairly long - at least 40-60 hours. Even though I also don't have as much time to play games as I would like, I would much rather play through an epic adventure - even if it takes 1-2 months - so long as the quality is there; I definitely don't want arbitrary filler content. It's not so much a demand as much as it is a desire; if a game is great, wouldn't you want more of it? Replays are great and all, but subsequent journeys through the same game will never carry the same weight as the first time you experience a great game.

To counter my own argument, VTM:B and Deus Ex are two great examples of quality over quantity. I guess the best way to make a game shorter and still hold a tremendous amount of value is to offer the freedom of playstyle and non-linear level design that Deus Ex and VTM:B are famous for; that way, replays can still feel like a new experience. For purely story-driven games without true C&C that has an actual effect on the story, length is definitely important, IMO. For example, a game that is linear and story-driven - even if has an elegant, well-written story - has to be more than only 10 hours long to offer reasonable value for $50-60.
Last edited by Nerevarine; March 2nd, 2011 at 01:27.
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