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Default Dragonrage 2 is the best written rpg since cryscape:tearment

March 19th, 2011, 01:27
So understand the weight intended when I make the following statement: To me, Dragon Age II is the best written game since Planescape: Torment.
Excellent trolling or terrifingly serious?

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March 19th, 2011, 01:41
So understand the weight intended when I make the following statement: To me, Dragon Age II is the best written game since Planescape: Torment.
Trolling. End of discussion.

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March 19th, 2011, 02:00
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
Trolling. End of discussion.
care to explain why?

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March 19th, 2011, 02:05
Trolling…I thought it was crap!
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March 19th, 2011, 02:39
Originally Posted by SAGO View Post
care to explain why?
Sadly I don't think he was trolling … Elysium has been around for a while. Exactly why he was smitten with DA2 and the blatant 3-choice cliches and didn't 'click' with the Witcher who knows, but it is obvious he is buying what they are selling … ugh.

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March 19th, 2011, 05:35
Originally Posted by SAGO View Post
care to explain why?
No meaningful choices in DA2

In Torment, what TNO do affect the world e.g. the whole curst moves into different plane. What you do in DA2, don't even affect your companions most of the time. No matter what you do, both Meredith and Orsino goes nuts and attacks you. No matter what you do, Anders blows up chantry etc.

That is not "well-written" game. Ok, he might not be trolling, he is voicing his opinion. But I think that statement was just absurd.

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March 19th, 2011, 06:51
Please don't feed the trolls!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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March 19th, 2011, 06:51
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
No meaningful choices in DA2

In Torment, what TNO do affect the world e.g. the whole curst moves into different plane. What you do in DA2, don't even affect your companions most of the time. No matter what you do, both Meredith and Orsino goes nuts and attacks you. No matter what you do, Anders blows up chantry etc.

That is not "well-written" game. Ok, he might not be trolling, he is voicing his opinion. But I think that statement was just absurd.
but doesn't curst move back anyway? regardless of what you do? (only played it once)

i have to agree with you though, like in all biowear games i've played, the choice is an illusion or the choice leads to a consequence thats so petty it might as well be consequenceless. either way, its an amusing article that will be forgotten.

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March 19th, 2011, 11:06
It's very sad if he's serious… But I think he's a troll. I like to think that NOBODY is that stupid.
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March 19th, 2011, 13:50
There have been games as well written since PS:T, imo, but I don't think DA2 is one of them..
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March 19th, 2011, 14:13
DA2 actually has a really awesome overall plot and situation. The Qunari in act two and the mages vs. templars in act three are both intense and well thought out scenarios that are the perfect setting for drama. Anders and Varric are also great characters who, at least in Anders' case, are very well written and have dramatic storylines.

Unfortunately a lot of the actual dialog is so-so, and the Hawke story (which is the focus) is actually below average, in my opinion. So it ends up being a mish-mash of great and iffy, resulting in "good." And then "good" is further crapped on by the terrible dialogue system.
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March 19th, 2011, 15:54
I never succeed play PS:T further than first parts, and always found dialogs and beginning of story boring. So I'm not qualified to comment here but if DA2 plot base is ambitious, the development of the story/stories is ok only few time it's good. Also it's a bit better than in DAO to offer some choices not too much black or white but it's still not that well setup or interesting than in The Witcher or some (great) morale choices of MotB. But myself in no way I would link it to the dialog system, for me there's no link.
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March 19th, 2011, 16:20
Originally Posted by Dasale View Post
I never succeed play PS:T further than first parts, and always found dialogs and beginning of story boring. So I'm not qualified to comment here but if DA2 plot base is ambitious, the development of the story/stories is ok only few time it's good. Also it's a bit better than in DAO to offer some choices not too much black or white but it's still not that well setup or interesting than in The Witcher or some (great) morale choices of MotB. But myself in no way I would link it to the dialog system, for me there's no link.
There is no link with the dialog system because it does not matter what mechanic the system has if the overall writing is good or bad. I actually don't care if there is dialog wheel, full text choices or four bearded monkeys to choose from as long as the writing is good.
It's the same thing with choice (choice in the story, not to confuse with gameplay choices). A hundred bad written choices are far worse than a well written story without choice. It's the quality and the element of fun one has playing the game that matters not the size or levels or story branches or whatever.
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March 19th, 2011, 16:30
Originally Posted by Roi Danton View Post
There is no link with the dialog system because it does not matter what mechanic the system has if the overall writing is good or bad. I actually don't care if there is dialog wheel, full text choices or four bearded monkeys to choose from as long as the writing is good.
The simple dialogue summaries though often cause me to say the wrong thing, even with the icons. That is a functional issue that makes them much worse than full text.
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March 19th, 2011, 17:04
Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative View Post
The simple dialogue summaries though often cause me to say the wrong thing, even with the icons. That is a functional issue that makes them much worse than full text.
Ok that's how you see it myself I got too often irritated by the result of a dialog choice that I didn't expect in DAO. So I understand the pleasure to read the full text and then hear the voice actor repeat it, but I'm not fully sensible to the argument, yeah just me.

If the story or stories aren't that good it's because they aren't that good, not because of players choices during dialogs. But again it's just my point of view.
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March 19th, 2011, 17:23
Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative View Post
The simple dialogue summaries though often cause me to say the wrong thing, even with the icons. That is a functional issue that makes them much worse than full text.
Exactly - when you have to save before dialogues not to try to 'game the system', but because you can't trust that what you THINK are your role-playing correct choices are having inverse impact. Or maybe it is just that that friend/rivalry system is FUBAR.

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March 19th, 2011, 22:00
These short "summaries" f the dialog options are just … too short for my complex thinking. It's like … as if they were trying to put all of the ethical, philosophical and (in-game) theological implications of MY (in my role as the character) thoughts in to 3 words.

You just can't shorten a philosophical dialog with 3 words.

But … on the other side … one chose a certain way to deal with the Gordian Knot - and he most certainly way a warrior.
Not a thinker or a philosopher or anything else in that direction.

Which could imply - design-wise - that the team of Bioware thought that Warriors (like Hawke) ALWAYS use only 3 words - or at least think in them. Like dealing with the Gordian Knot.

On the other way, PS:T is the Thinker's dream. Absolutely. And the Philosopher's Dream also. And the one of those loving theological dispurtes as well.

Both games are very different in their design-philosophies :

Dragon Age 2 = "Warrior-Game"
Planescape : Torment = "Philosopher-Game"

That's a fundamental difference, imho.

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March 19th, 2011, 22:29
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
These short "summaries" f the dialog options are just … too short for my complex thinking. It's like … as if they were trying to put all of the ethical, philosophical and (in-game) theological implications of MY (in my role as the character) thoughts in to 3 words.

You just can't shorten a philosophical dialog with 3 words.

But … on the other side … one chose a certain way to deal with the Gordian Knot - and he most certainly way a warrior.
Not a thinker or a philosopher or anything else in that direction.

Which could imply - design-wise - that the team of Bioware thought that Warriors (like Hawke) ALWAYS use only 3 words - or at least think in them. Like dealing with the Gordian Knot.

On the other way, PS:T is the Thinker's dream. Absolutely. And the Philosopher's Dream also. And the one of those loving theological dispurtes as well.

Both games are very different in their design-philosophies :

Dragon Age 2 = "Warrior-Game"
Planescape : Torment = "Philosopher-Game"

That's a fundamental difference, imho.
or it could be that they lazy and were aiming at the 'lowest common denominator' in order to capitalize on the prievious gaymes success very quickly?

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March 19th, 2011, 22:31
The paraphrased dialogue wheel does make things worse, in my opinion. Because it's not the actual dialogue, it further separates the character from the player. It reduces immersion and decreases the emotional resonance you might otherwise have with NPCs and your companions. If you're like me, which would be very sad, then you know there is a huge benefit to having an unvoiced main protagonist. Because everything has to be written out and thoroughly read, you develop your own voice for the character. Everything that's written down develops its own tone and tempo in your head, and it makes the character more and more yours. In Dragon Age 2, you're a passive participant in the conversation, reduced to clicking a button that basically corresponds to, "Say something nice," "Say something snarky," or "Be a douchebag," and then someone else actually says it. Games like PS:T and Fallout had these options as well, but they also had class, ability, and - in the case of Fallout - sex dependent dialogue options. You had the ability to lie and outwit your opponents, or be clever - or not, if you were playing a character with low intelligence.

Some of the dialogue options that I see on the wheel, I wind up saying them in my head. Only Hawke sounds more like Sloth from "The Goonies." It just ruins the whole conversation for me.
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March 19th, 2011, 23:53
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
These short "summaries" f the dialog options are just … too short for my complex thinking. It's like … as if they were trying to put all of the ethical, philosophical and (in-game) theological implications of MY (in my role as the character) thoughts in to 3 words.

You just can't shorten a philosophical dialog with 3 words…
Is it really the depth of the dialog before, or the depth of the last dialog choice that matter when you end with 2 or 3 choices for your answer? If your dialog choice is a choice among 2 or 3 complex and deep choices, I wonder if really that many players will get it. And because of that I wonder if really many RPG design team build that sort of dialog choices. In MotB it was the few morale dilema that was interesting, not the pick among one of the last few choices.
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