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Default Dragonrage 2 is the best written rpg since cryscape:tearment

March 23rd, 2011, 12:21
Most of the fans will probably know about Project Aon (a collection of online versions of Joe Dever's Lone Wolf work) but just in case you don't:

http://www.projectaon.org/

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March 23rd, 2011, 19:31
Originally Posted by Dasale View Post
Well Merrill is a sort of mystery, I agree that her apparent naivety is to link more with a different way of living she isn't used to. Perhaps the writers caricature it a bit too much. But the point is it let feel to be in total opposition with her courage to go against the whole clan for convictions. This putting her in a position between fanatics and people that have the courage to make stuff move despite all obstacles.
i was talking about isabella

but now merril, she really is inconsistent, she is naive, forgetful, nervous and cannot see into other peoples motives very well yet she has a demon inside of her which have destroyed the minds and bodies of the most powerful mages yet she soehow has managed to exert enough control over the demon to retain herself. (and demons are masters of deceit)

i wouldn't be suprised if she was written by david gaider, seeing he wrote aerie from bg2seeing they share alot of similiarities

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March 29th, 2011, 19:01
Originally Posted by SAGO View Post
care to explain why?
The major issue with dragon Age 2's story: it exhibits a defect in the Dragon Age Universe.

Typically, the life of a mage in this universe is too coercive to allow an adventurer character.

Mages can either live:
-in the Circle, under the supervision of a religious order.
-as an apostate, hunted down and distrusted.
-as a Grey Warden, a status allowing a certain degree of freedom.

Drawing heroes from the mages pool is like picturing an adventuring black slave in the 18th century US. It can not work. Too much suspension of disbelief required to get the story going.

Magick is perceived as a dangerous threat in most areas of the DA universe. It took a revolutionary prophetess to break the yoke imposed by magick, with the consequence that magick control is wrapped in religious beliefs.

The writers got glued in that quagmire: the story starts with a templar (a good man as said by his wife Aveline) pointing at the apostates who have just saved his life to end with an Abomination and a blood mage being publically known to Kirkwall Templar order. And what is supposed to happen between the two stages? A loosening up? No. The opposite: a tightening in the way of Kirkwall's templar order, already depicted as extremelly strict compared to the Fereldan order. It does not fit.

Running under the very nose of the templars at the Gallows with a party full of mages (all unregistered) did not make it for me (Act One)
The Araashad unable to spot mages sporting robes and staves just before the confrontation did not either. And so on… The story line is full of events that break the credibility of the situations. Because the life of a mage in DA universe is supposedly so restricted one can not extract a mage character, not only allowed to live a casual live, but also drawing attention while getting no response.

At no time, Kirkwall templar order tried to capture one of the mages present in the party. Too unbelievable to allow a good storytelling.
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March 29th, 2011, 23:33
Originally Posted by SAGO View Post
i was talking about isabella

but now merril, she really is inconsistent, she is naive, forgetful, nervous and cannot see into other peoples motives very well yet she has a demon inside of her which have destroyed the minds and bodies of the most powerful mages yet she soehow has managed to exert enough control over the demon to retain herself. (and demons are masters of deceit)

i wouldn't be suprised if she was written by david gaider, seeing he wrote aerie from bg2seeing they share alot of similiarities
Sheehh now you post non codex like posts? The world is going mad, I always said it.

I agree it's a way to see Merrill, but look closely.

Spoiler – SPOIL
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March 30th, 2011, 00:17
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
The major issue with dragon Age 2's story: it exhibits a defect in the Dragon Age Universe..
I don't quote the whole I think it should be in a spoil tag, but it's just few posts above if you want the detail.

The argument about having an apostate walking under the nose of templar and don't believe it is an argument based on robes and staff. In fact only the staff is for the player an identification point, not even the robes.

But the point is it's clearly not an identification proof for the game world conventions only using magic is. And I don't remember in DAO mages was identified at sight because of carrying a staff. If during introduction the Templar point apostate it's because he saw them using magic.

I don't think the game transgress this, the only cases it happens in my play aren't always directly explained by the game but then you learn later good reason why this or this Templar didn't denunciate you before you had become the herault of the town. But at this point you are untouchable and your companions with you too.

Your second point is about blood magic, but again there's no way to identify a mage is using blood magic or is already possessed by a demon. Only saw him using blood magic or currently possessed are the proof of that. And clearly it didn't happened in cases you quoted.

But I do agree with you that the game convention for which someone with a staff isn't a point of identification of mage at sight, is a hard convention to accept. But it's a convention.

If you don't accept this convention then yes the game is broken but if you do, then it's quite different. And really the game gave you many points showing this convention, like this NPC or this NPC not identifying you as a mage because of your staff… until he see you using magic.
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March 30th, 2011, 01:57
Originally Posted by Dasale View Post
Sheehh now you post non codex like posts? The world is going mad, I always said it.

I agree it's a way to see Merrill, but look closely.

Spoiler – SPOIL
i thought she had a demon inside of her when she said ''Yes, it was blood magic, but I know what I'm doing. The spirit helped us, didn't it?''

she said that after destroying the magic barrier

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March 30th, 2011, 02:34
Originally Posted by SAGO View Post
i thought she had a demon inside of her when she said ''Yes, it was blood magic, but I know what I'm doing. The spirit helped us, didn't it?''

she said that after destroying the magic barrier
Well ok someone pointed me there's contradictory points about that in DAO. On one part the hero needs learn Blood Magic specialization from a demon. Something I had forget mainly because I used a mod to unlock specializations. So this is making a link with demons and blood magic. But on another way, Jowan seems have learn Blood Magic only by himself, without any pact with a demon.

But in both cases, in no way it means the mage using Blood Magic means he is possessed by a demon.

But I do agree your quote that happen when Merrill opens a magical barrier involves confusion.

If I remember well blood magic is more deeply explained in DAO. And if I remember well the point is blood only and not at all demons. But there's two danger about it that have made it a forbidden magic. First the blood could not be the mage blood this allowing easy abuse at depends of someone else life, and this making a Blood Mage potentially more dangerous for normal humans. The second point was that through blood magic the mage was gaining more power and then was attracting more powerful demons making possession and transform in abomination more frequent.

But once again there's the facts, the superstitions and the second degree. One example in a spoil that despite what DA2 seems thrown to player this direct and necessary link between Blood Magic and demon and possession is far to be obvious:
Spoiler – SPOIL


So I do agree have Merrill mention a spirit is troubling, possibly a second degree answer about the Hawke remark, but possibly something else. But overall if there's a general explanation it's more that in Kirkwall a special blood magic get developed and spread, there's many hints about that. But in no way I see how Merrill could be linked with that special Blood Magic. And once more Blood Magic never mean have an inner demon.
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March 30th, 2011, 03:38
Originally Posted by Dasale View Post
Well ok someone pointed me there's contradictory points about that in DAO. On one part the hero needs learn Blood Magic specialization from a demon. Something I had forget mainly because I used a mod to unlock specializations. So this is making a link with demons and blood magic. But on another way, Jowan seems have learn Blood Magic only by himself, without any pact with a demon.

But in both cases, in no way it means the mage using Blood Magic means he is possessed by a demon.

But I do agree your quote that happen when Merrill opens a magical barrier involves confusion.

If I remember well blood magic is more deeply explained in DAO. And if I remember well the point is blood only and not at all demons. But there's two danger about it that have made it a forbidden magic. First the blood could not be the mage blood this allowing easy abuse at depends of someone else life, and this making a Blood Mage potentially more dangerous for normal humans. The second point was that through blood magic the mage was gaining more power and then was attracting more powerful demons making possession and transform in abomination more frequent.

But once again there's the facts, the superstitions and the second degree. One example in a spoil that despite what DA2 seems thrown to player this direct and necessary link between Blood Magic and demon and possession is far to be obvious:
Spoiler – SPOIL


So I do agree have Merrill mention a spirit is troubling, possibly a second degree answer about the Hawke remark, but possibly something else. But overall if there's a general explanation it's more that in Kirkwall a special blood magic get developed and spread, there's many hints about that. But in no way I see how Merrill could be linked with that special Blood Magic. And once more Blood Magic never mean have an inner demon.
im not reading that.

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March 30th, 2011, 04:08
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March 30th, 2011, 10:50
Originally Posted by Dasale View Post
The argument about having an apostate walking under the nose of templar and don't believe it is an argument based on robes and staff. In fact only the staff is for the player an identification point, not even the robes.
In another comment, I listed some of the occurrences breaking the illusion (spoilers warning is global)
Spoiler

But the point is it's clearly not an identification proof for the game world conventions only using magic is. And I don't remember in DAO mages was identified at sight because of carrying a staff. If during introduction the Templar point apostate it's because he saw them using magic.
DA:O is a totally different setting.
Spoiler

I don't think the game transgress this, the only cases it happens in my play aren't always directly explained by the game but then you learn later good reason why this or this Templar didn't denunciate you before you had become the herault of the town. But at this point you are untouchable and your companions with you too.
It goes way beyond that the total templar inaction.
Spoiler

Your second point is about blood magic, but again there's no way to identify a mage is using blood magic or is already possessed by a demon. Only saw him using blood magic or currently possessed are the proof of that. And clearly it didn't happened in cases you quoted.
I did not spot the second point.

Spoiler


But I do agree with you that the game convention for which someone with a staff isn't a point of identification of mage at sight, is a hard convention to accept. But it's a convention.

If you don't accept this convention then yes the game is broken but if you do, then it's quite different. And really the game gave you many points showing this convention, like this NPC or this NPC not identifying you as a mage because of your staff… until he see you using magic.
It goes way beyond the attire.
Spoiler

It is all about the level of secrecy the party manages to provide to their mages, while rising in glory and public knowledge, using magic openly and frequently and this in the Spanish Inquistion templar mode Kirkwall is said to become.
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March 30th, 2011, 23:26
I answered you in the other post with spoil you opened. To answer here quickly and very globally (see the spoil post for more details):

Spoiler
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March 30th, 2011, 23:53
It is not about Meredith. Meredith is an extremistic templar.

The Templar normal purpose is to monitor mages, to prevent the exercise of magic outside the order supervision. This by religious beliefs.

Meredith and kirkwall make the matter worse as they are supposed to be extremelly oppressive, even by templar standards.
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March 31st, 2011, 01:04
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
It is not about Meredith. Meredith is an extremistic templar.

The Templar normal purpose is to monitor mages, to prevent the exercise of magic outside the order supervision. This by religious beliefs.

Meredith and kirkwall make the matter worse as they are supposed to be extremelly oppressive, even by templar standards.
And spoil and spoil, well better use the other thread if you want I answer about that point and I have an answer.
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March 31st, 2011, 10:03
Spoilers? more advertizing for the game. People need teasers. And they are teasers. Nothing that can not be found in a Bioware promotional…
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March 31st, 2011, 21:53
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
Spoilers? more advertizing for the game. People need teasers. And they are teasers. Nothing that can not be found in a Bioware promotional…
Ha ha ha. Please tell me your next favorite RPG. And your favorite forum, I'll give this game the treatment you deserve to DA2, and we will debate about spoil then.
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