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Default Underworld - On GamersGate

March 29th, 2011, 18:21
You can now grab Sword and Sorcery: Underworld over at GamersGate. It's $19.95 and DRM free.
More information.
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March 29th, 2011, 18:21
Very nice.
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March 29th, 2011, 19:03
Has anyone played this? $20 is a lot to plunk down for an unknown game.
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March 29th, 2011, 19:09
We have a review for it.

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March 29th, 2011, 20:22
I'll pass.

I'm not a graphics wh0re, but that is downright ugly. Everything from the interface to the type faces mixed with the cheeseball "sexy" illustrations is painful to look at.
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March 29th, 2011, 20:31
I've played it through, and while it was not horrendous, it's just not worth paying money to play. It is "too" oldschool. Everything is outdated and has been done better for years and years. The guy is really nice, but he wanted to pretend that the last 20 years just haven't happened in crpg gaming, and that's not the case. If you have never played anything newer than the original Bard's Tale, this game is for you. Otherwise, it'll be a nice diversion for a few hours when it becomes freeware.

IF you are wanting to replay Bard's Tale or Might and Magic I, you might play this instead. This game feels like a contemporary to those. It is way, way, way smaller than either of those games though. If the game lasted another 100 hours, it might be worth the $20, if you wanted a retro experience. The game is fun, if you can look past all the inexplicable decisions that went into making it.

I almost hate typing this, because the guy is a good guy. The bottom line is, though, that he purposely decided to make a game that 95% of the crpg audience just would not be interested in.

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March 29th, 2011, 20:36
It worked for me because I wanted a Bards Tale experience with some more modern interface options- and Devil's Whiskey was just too brutal (and glitchy) to get far in.
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March 29th, 2011, 20:55
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
I've played it through, and while it was not horrendous, it's just not worth paying money to play. It is "too" oldschool. Everything is outdated and has been done better for years and years. The guy is really nice, but he wanted to pretend that the last 20 years just haven't happened in crpg gaming, and that's not the case. If you have never played anything newer than the original Bard's Tale, this game is for you. Otherwise, it'll be a nice diversion for a few hours when it becomes freeware.

IF you are wanting to replay Bard's Tale or Might and Magic I, you might play this instead. This game feels like a contemporary to those. It is way, way, way smaller than either of those games though. If the game lasted another 100 hours, it might be worth the $20, if you wanted a retro experience. The game is fun, if you can look past all the inexplicable decisions that went into making it.

I almost hate typing this, because the guy is a good guy. The bottom line is, though, that he purposely decided to make a game that 95% of the crpg audience just would not be interested in.
This is quite discouraging. Since I am too trying to make new oldschool RPG.
With much better graphics and interface though. But old school never the less.
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March 29th, 2011, 21:23
I don't have a problem with simple graphics. But this looks like a hodge-podge of bad design decisions all around. He would have been better off making simple shapes to represent monsters, keeping the color palette all grays and simply lay all the type out in helvetica.

Sorry to sound so harsh. I'm sure there's a ton of hard work that went into it, but you can't charge $20 for something like that.
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March 29th, 2011, 21:23
Originally Posted by Twotricks View Post
This is quite discouraging. Since I am too trying to make new oldschool RPG.
With much better graphics and interface though. But old school never the less.
You have to look at it as: old schools is good as long as you modernize the ui and how things work. People tend to forget just how bad it was to play some of the older games, you would fight the game to play.

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March 29th, 2011, 21:47
Oldschool isn't bad TwoTricks. What this dev did was choose to limit inventory to a total of like 8 or 10 items. Priest Spells required an asset that was very quickly used up and you'd constantly have to move others' water to the priest so he could cast spells. There were just tons of decisions like this that made sense when a computer had 320k of ram, but are silly in today's world. You can make an old school game. You just can't make a game that doesn't take into account modern capabilities. Don't nerf your own game in the interests of staying "true" to the oldies.

Also, think honestly about what you would pay to play a game similar to what you're making. Underworld took less than 30 hours to complete. It has very outdated graphics, limited inventory, limited spells, and simple square maps. Now, if I pay $50 to play AAA titles, what would I pay to play something with no selling points except that it harkens back to days of yore? I know the Dev invested a ton of time and effort, but who cares?

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March 29th, 2011, 22:27
I almost hate typing this, because the guy is a good guy. The bottom line is, though, that he purposely decided to make a game that 95% of the crpg audience just would not be interested in.

5% is more than I'll ever need

I hope you don't mind me butting in. I understand all the criticism. At first it stung, but that was a good thing. Nut's criticism brought new improvements (new story elements, mainly, as well as lower holy water requirements & further character development). Others before inspired evolution from v1.0 to v1.06. So no need to feel bad about saying what doesn't appeal to you. Inventory hasn't changed, but in all fairness there are 12 item slots per character, and 6 characters per party. That being said the sequel will have different inv management (something I probably wouldn't have considered without the criticism, so thanks for pointing it out!)

Keep in mind however that there are a lot of people in that 5%. I've gotten tons of positive feedback both by email and in my forums. The question is, are you in that category of players… or not? And it's definitely OK if you aren't.

Just wanted to let you know, I completed the game and you have a very satisfied customer.


I liked the artwork very much, but how many (non-demonic) pretty girls did my party kill? Several thousand? My heroes will never get a date — they depopulated the kingdom! Thanks for a great game!

I can hardly wait for the sequel

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March 29th, 2011, 22:56
Some good info here. Including game developer. (thanks for posting)

I also think that 5% is enough. You should make the game you want and feel like playing - If you aim to please everyone you can end up making Dragon Age 2

That said. I also feel that UI is the biggest obstacle in enjoying old school games.
They should be hardcore complex. But not chore to play because of badly designed UI.
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March 29th, 2011, 23:04
Originally Posted by Twotricks View Post
Some good info here. Including game developer. (thanks for posting)

I also think that 5% is enough. You should make the game you want and feel like playing - If you aim to please everyone you can end up making Dragon Age 2

That said. I also feel that UI is the biggest obstacle in enjoying old school games.
They should be hardcore complex. But not chore to play because of badly designed UI.
Thanks TwoTricks. Any specifics on what is wrong with the UI? I haven't read any yet and with that sequel to work on I'd appreciate a more distant point of view than my own.

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March 29th, 2011, 23:19
Originally Posted by Charles-cgr View Post
Thanks TwoTricks. Any specifics on what is wrong with the UI? I haven't read any yet and with that sequel to work on I'd appreciate a more distant point of view than my own.
Ah. Sorry for misunderstanding. I was not commenting Underworld UI.

I played Underworld demo. Liked the game very much.
But I must admit I was put off by graphics.
Perhaps its not a small undertaking.
But making sequel with better graphics would go a long way
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March 29th, 2011, 23:21
THAT I've figured out already . Setting things up slowly.

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March 29th, 2011, 23:33
Woo all those reactions just because of graphics, you got one bad point for such a superficial point of view. There must be more hidden codex fanboys here than I believed. Myself I'd wish understand first what the gameplay is. Well I suppose I'have start a one hour study of Corwin review.

EDIT: When looking for more feedback than just from Corwin review I found a thread quoting the spirit was close from some DS RPG, including a low graphics approach. I'd say that DS RPG players seem to me more mature than PC players.
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March 30th, 2011, 00:16
I must be biased for graphics because i am graphic designer

But seriously. I am not talking graphic in terms making it look like Crysis 2
More like keeping consistent line of quality. Take "Knight of Chalice" for example.
Simple Ultima 7 style. But its consistent. And thats important.
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March 30th, 2011, 00:26
Originally Posted by Twotricks View Post
I must be biased for graphics because i am graphic designer

But seriously. I am not talking graphic in terms making it look like Crysis 2
More like keeping consistent line of quality. Take "Knight of Chalice" for example.
Simple Ultima 7 style. But its consistent. And thats important.
Hah, you thought knight of the chalice was ultima 7 style? I thought more ultima 6. Yet, it was a good game. To be honest with underworld I have yet to get past the build a party mode…it just wasn't very user friendly at all. I will try again and see.

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March 30th, 2011, 00:29
In all fairness criticism isn't only targeted at the graphics. I've heard the consistency issue before but… I don't see it. That must come from not being a graphics designer. Next time I'll hand draw everything and it'll be consistently awful

As for gameplay I'd say the best way to go is try the demo

To build a party (N)ew character, (R)oll or (R)eroll, pick from the available classes (K,P,A,R,P,S), one of the races (H,E,D,G) and male or female.

(V)alidate, name the character and repeat as needed.

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Last edited by Charles-cgr; March 30th, 2011 at 00:36. Reason: EDITED because others came by while I was writing.
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