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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Spiderweb Games - On Making Lots of People Angry

Default Spiderweb Games - On Making Lots of People Angry

May 7th, 2011, 05:08
Jeff Vogel writes a follow-up to his previous blog article titled On Making Lots of People Angry:
I thought that I had a lot of good points to be made about the perils and opportunities of listening to feedback from fans (or ex-fans), so I wrote a blog post about it. This had the entirely predictable effect of infuriating the previously mentioned community.

Now, in the light of day, I feel kind of bad about it. I think what I wrote was fairly mild and I do still stand by every word of it. However, I think I kicked a group of my fellow gamers when they were down, and, being a lifelong gamer myself, I regret that. I've been reading their posts and chatting with them and I think I understand where they're coming from a lot better now.
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May 7th, 2011, 05:08
Good to see he went back and apologized. I did not like his last post at all. It was mean spirited and stupid. Sorry, Jeff, but directing all your frustrations on just one website is idiotic because there were quite a few people that weren't happy with Avadon and not all of them were at RPGCodex.

As for the game itself, I've played part of the demo and it's ok. I don't think I'll like it as much as some of his other games, but for me it's enough and will buy it later.

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May 7th, 2011, 07:41
Do you happen not to be part of the targeted site and regret you did not have your share of mean spirited comments?
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May 7th, 2011, 08:02
He's not happy about it, but at least he's semi-acknowledging that he sold out - and that's always something.

It seems he does know, deep inside, why he's receiving criticism - even though he's loathe to make it plain that he's to blame, himself.

His game will most likely sell pretty well, and I'm sure he'll reap the benefits of going casual - or semi-casual, as seems to be the case.

Oh, forgot to add that it's obviously damage control - lest he lose word of mouth from that source entirely.

May be too late, though, as the Codex aren't the forgiving sort.
Last edited by DArtagnan; May 7th, 2011 at 08:14.
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May 7th, 2011, 09:52
Love what he said about niches. That is pretty much my indie game philosophy… don't make things the big boys are already cranking out, make games either no one has ever made before (Minecraft, Zeno Clash) or make games that service niches no longer served by corporations.
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May 7th, 2011, 10:45
What really gets me is that even at selling out he's incompetent. XBox achievements are there to support microsoft's live nonsense and no one would use them if they didn't have to. Shoving them into your game thinking it will make you a million bucks somehow makes my head spin.

And before telling me yet again to make my own game instead of criticizing others, take your own advice about criticism and STFU.
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May 7th, 2011, 11:04
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
Do you happen not to be part of the targeted site and regret you did not have your share of mean spirited comments?
Are you asking me? Honestly, I have a hard time understanding you.

The way you word your sentences is odd like, "Do you happen not to be part of the targeted site?" Why not just ask if I'm a member of RPGCodex? Yes, I'm a member, but I don't post that often there. They would probably think I talk too much.

As for your second question I think you're asking me if I regret that I didn't get to post any negative comments? Which is strange since I could post a negative comment at any time. That question has already been answered in my first post. Read the last paragraph again if you're interested in my opinion on the game.

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May 7th, 2011, 12:54
Yep, hard time to understand my comments. Your comment could have been interpretated as by someone who is not a member of that site and found it unfair the developper only singled out that site's negative comments.
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May 7th, 2011, 13:50
Jeff really think he made people angry? That's a quite naive point of view, or it's just second degree irony, no need own any grade to know plenty codex members are constantly angry, you can't make them angry, that's their nature.
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May 7th, 2011, 14:12
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
Yep, hard time to understand my comments. Your comment could have been interpretated as by someone who is not a member of that site and found it unfair the developper only singled out that site's negative comments.
RPGCodex gets singled out because there are basically no rules there. You can say whatever you want without risk of banning and that makes them easy targets. Too easy if you ask me.

Sure that kind of freedom doesn't really appeal to me because some of the things that are said are beyond ridiculous, but it sure as hell doesn't mean they should get singled out for it from a developer. If he had bothered to read the whole thread he might have realized that there were quite a lot of fans of his work there and yet he just spit in their face.

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May 7th, 2011, 14:27
Originally Posted by skavenhorde View Post
RPGCodex gets singled out because there are basically no rules there. You can say whatever you want without risk of banning and that makes them easy targets. Too easy if you ask me.

Sure that kind of freedom doesn't really appeal to me because some of the things that are said are beyond ridiculous, but it sure as hell doesn't mean they should get singled out for it from a developer. If he had bothered to read the whole thread he might have realized that there were quite a lot of fans of his work there and yet he just spit in their face.
LOL, a guess, don't you have a lot of trouble with your son those last time? Or perhaps a daughter? You should avoid identify codex craziness to your difficult children, it's unfair.
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May 7th, 2011, 16:36
Yeah, he fucked up w/ that. Love them or hate them, theyre part of your core constituency. I imagine that it was kinda like completely spazzing out on someone at work and making a huge scene, then 2 hours later you see them in the hallway and feel like an utter douche. Even if you were totally in the right.

This may have been good for sales, because at least for me - curiosity sells. I'm now strangely compelled to play Avadon and see firsthand what the bs is all about. I tried Geneforge back in the days of yore and it was awful. Being the RPG Poser that I am, maybe his sellout album will be the one that I can finally get into.
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May 7th, 2011, 17:05
I don't think the game is bad or a sellout. The codex over reacts to everything, it's like a site for reviews by 11 year olds, if you have an 11 year old you will know what I mean. It's a good game, is it too easy? I don't know. But it's still good(even if I don't think the graphics are miles better)

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May 7th, 2011, 17:23
My opinion if it matters is you would think he would be used to criticism didn't he already make other games. The world in large is a thankless place it will never change just take the kind compliments and ignore the ones who just bash your games with no reason behind them.

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May 7th, 2011, 19:22
Jeff Vogel's comments in his blog did indeed make a lot of people angry; I don't play his games, so I can't really comment on this. However, I do know that many people on the RPGCodex love Spiderweb Games. And why is it that the people (and the codex) seem to think that Jeff, and Spiderweb game, has sold out?




I'm a member of the RPGCodex myself; I don't post there often now, maybe once or twice a month. Back in 2007, the Codex was a very nice place where we discussed a lot of things, we did argue a lot, though, but back then, the Codex could discuss intelligently which features in a game would work and which would not. The Codex, today, though, is another place alltogether.

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May 7th, 2011, 19:57
In 2007 Saint Proverbius was the leader of the Codex - when I remember right he is a huge Geneforge fan.

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May 7th, 2011, 20:49
Originally Posted by Dasale View Post
LOL, a guess, don't you have a lot of trouble with your son those last time? Or perhaps a daughter? You should avoid identify codex craziness to your difficult children, it's unfair.
What in the nine circles of hell are you talking about? I have no children.

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May 7th, 2011, 21:50
Originally Posted by skavenhorde View Post
What in the nine circles of hell are you talking about? I have no children.
I think he maybe insane, I have had a hard time for awhile following what he says and chalked it up top language…but now?

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May 7th, 2011, 22:31
Insane? For me the insane is have piety and indulgence for the codex aggressive suckers but none for a game developer.

But yeah like I mentioned already, people want ass suckers, not people making music, or something, or making games.
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May 7th, 2011, 22:55
Originally Posted by Dasale View Post
Insane? For me the insane is have piety and indulgence for the codex aggressive suckers but none for a game developer.

But yeah like I mentioned already, people want ass suckers, not people making music, or something, or making games.
lol ……..wut?

i dont like bioware games
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