Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Steamworks Enabled

Originally Posted by SpoonFULL
I think it does require Steam to play if it is Steamworks - not just achievements.

It requires STEAM authentifcation - which makes STEAM what it is: a copyright scheme which finally makes software companies dream come true:

- no pre-owned market
- personalized advertising
- total control over software regions (US, EU, Asia etc.)
- perfect platform to enforce region specific censorship (Germany, Australia etc.)
- permanent monitoring of customers

Yes, "enlighted masses": make your own enslavement popular. I am a very decent guy, but I will call stupidity what it is when I see it.

I don't bullshit about Digital Distribution being evil. I just say that it is only in favour of the producers - not the customers. I don't talk about "brick & mortar" stores being a thing of the future (well, Gamestops are opening their gates in minor cities in germany by the dozen), but I want a physical copy that I can touch. I don't mind it coming by the postman - I just don't want to have it virtually.

Originally Posted by Reyla
Digital download and Steam or Steam like clients are here to stay.

I mainly use Gamersgate, no client at all, effectively no service DRM and I have maybe 30 titles there. I've also got games on Impulse (~6; don't need the client running or installed) and one on D2D (no client either; but it is Uncle Rupes plus has horrible regional restrictions if you aren't US). So it ain't always about download luddism.

While there are no circumstances in existence that would persuade me to use Steam I don't actually have a problem with others using it as part of an informed choice. I do object strongly to it being bundled on 3rd party software though, for much the same reason I dislike MS doing it with Internet Explorer, though I actually consider Valve's method worse. It's loss-leading in an attempt to corner the market. But unlike with IE/ Windows even if you get the DD equivalents of 'Firefox/ Chrome/ Opera' you still end up running 'Internet Explorer' on a steamworks game.

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
DArtagnan I must say I agree with you again. I will laugh in 10 years when steam controls the entire market and makes people pay what they want with restrictions. Sure its all smiles and we love are customers now but that will change. Gabe wont be around forever.

You guys are hilarious! With all of these conspiracies to worry about - and in the scheme of things this is a very minor one - how do you get any sleep at night?

YES they want your money; there's no secret agenda here. They provide a service, I hand over my cash. If they start making me pay too much, or apply unreasonable restrictions, then there will always be an alternative. These are people trying to make money out of selling computer games - have you read the news lately? There are far more sinister things afoot!

Originally Posted by Dasale
You can deactivate auto patches, you just need change the Steam preference for the game.

You can never roll back patches, no matter what setting you use. You can't know a patch busts up your game until you use it, then you can't roll back.

Originally Posted by Sir_Brennus
It requires STEAM authentifcation - which makes STEAM what it is: a copyright scheme which finally makes software companies dream come true:

- no pre-owned market
- personalized advertising
- total control over software regions (US, EU, Asia etc.)
- perfect platform to enforce region specific censorship (Germany, Australia etc.)
- permanent monitoring of customers

Yes, "enlighted masses": make your own enslavement popular. I am a very decent guy, but I will call stupidity what it is when I see it.

I agree with you in general, but you have to understand everything is a negotiation. The companies present these DRM platforms and the consumers accept them. While the company gets a lot of things they want the consumer also gets things they want. It's a negotiation, not a ploy or manipulation. People know when they buy on Steam there are restrictions and such, they just don't care. They view the convenience and benefits as more important than the draw-backs.

I personally dislike Steam for singleplayer gaming but obviously I am in the minority, and obviously the majority are not all idiots, they just have different priorities than me.

Originally Posted by badmofo
You guys are hilarious! With all of these conspiracies to worry about - and in the scheme of things this is a very minor one - how do you get any sleep at night?

YES they want your money; there's no secret agenda here. They provide a service, I hand over my cash. If they start making me pay too much, or apply unreasonable restrictions, then there will always be an alternative. These are people trying to make money out of selling computer games - have you read the news lately? There are far more sinister things afoot!

Why do you think it's a surprise that greed is driving most peoplein business, especially in the US where the economic system facilitates it so well?

No, it's ok with me that they want my money and they want to control and dominate the digital distribution segment.

I'm not ok with their EU pricing, and I'm not ok with their client having to run in the background - and on top of that be needlessly slow and fiddly for such a tiny piece of software.

That's why I don't want to support it - now or in the future.

If I met Gabe on the street, I'd greet him like I would anyone else - and I'm sure he's a great guy. But I don't agree with him - and that's all it is.

I'm not the kind of person to just shrug off things that I'm aware of, and that I think are wrong. No, I'm going to act against it - on a personal level - by speaking against it, and simply not voting for it with my money.

Futile? Mostly, sure, but we can't all agree with Valve and their high prices.

Don't forget OnLive !

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
Don't forget OnLive !

Im not concerned with onlive since broadband is capped in the US it used to be unlimited and it uses allot of broadband. Playing three games all month a couple of hours a day used almost 200 gb. ISPs will not embrace it its the same as netflix they want a piece of the profit or they will throttle it.

No, I meant OnLive as an implicite DRM, something like in this sense :

Originally Posted by Sir_Brennus
It requires STEAM authentifcation - which makes STEAM what it is: a copyright scheme which finally makes software companies dream come true:

- no pre-owned market
- personalized advertising
- total control over software regions (US, EU, Asia etc.)
- perfect platform to enforce region specific censorship (Germany, Australia etc.)
- permanent monitoring of customers

Exchange "Steam" with "OnLive" there and you have it what I mean.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
No, I meant OnLive as an implicite DRM, something like in this sense :



Exchange "Steam" with "OnLive" there and you have it what I mean.

The whole your only renting the game as the founder of onlive said in an interview. It does everything you said but like steam people love the service.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan

Futile? Mostly, sure, but we can't all agree with Valve and their high prices.

Valve does not, and think I repeat that in every thread, fix the prices on steam. They never have and they most likely never will.

Originally Posted by Roi Danton
Valve does not, and think I repeat that in every thread, fix the prices on steam. They never have and they most likely never will.

I see.

Can you then explain to me what Valve can't do, that Direct2Drive, Impulse, Gamersgate, and GOG can do?

Because their EU prices for pretty much ALL non-indie titles (not including sales - that all sites have) are 50% higher than the others?

Exactly what about them makes them attractive enough, to make me overlook this inability of theirs?

If, for some legal reason, they can't sell games at similar prices to other distributors - then I sympathise - but I'd be an idiot to pay 50% more.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
I see.

Can you then explain to me what Valve can't do, that Direct2Drive, Impulse, Gamersgate, and GOG can do?

Because their EU prices for pretty much ALL non-indie titles (not including sales - that all sites have) are 50% higher than the others?

Exactly what about them makes them attractive enough, to make me overlook this inability of theirs?

If, for some legal reason, they can't sell games at similar prices to other distributors - then I sympathise - but I'd be an idiot to pay 50% more.

Since I'm at work now I don't have the time to do a thorough comparison, but at a quick glance both Steam and Gamersgate have a similar pricing of various AAA titles (Shogun 2 49,99€/49,95€; Two Worlds 2 39,99€/39,95€; Just Cause 2 19,99€/19,95€; Assassin's Creed Brotherhood 49,99€/49,95€).

Why you should use it? No idea, actually. That's your decision.

Why I like steam? I like the client, the sales, the community features and the overlay mode for games. And honestly, I don't buy games on steam unless they are indie/not easily available or on sale.

Originally Posted by Roi Danton
Since I'm at work now I don't have the time to do a thorough comparison, but at a quick glance both Steam and Gamersgate have a similar pricing of various AAA titles (Shogun 2 49,99€/49,95€; Two Worlds 2 39,99€/39,95€; Just Cause 2 19,99€/19,95€; Assassin's Creed Brotherhood 49,99€/49,95€).

Why you should use it? No idea, actually. That's your decision.

Why I like steam? I like the client, the sales, the community features and the overlay mode for games. And honestly, I don't buy games on steam unless they are indie/not easily available or on sale.

You're looking at the wrong Gamersgate.

Check gamersgate.co.uk or direct2drive.co.uk.

AFAIK, Steam has no ".co.uk" alternative.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
You're looking at the wrong Gamersgate.

Check gamersgate.co.uk or direct2drive.co.uk.

AFAIK, Steam has no ".co.uk" alternative.

That not really the point. Steam has UK prices, but since I don't live in the UK I don't really know them And if I start comparing prices I'll compare on a fair basis, that is German Gamersgate and German steam (or UK steam prices to UK Gamersgate).

Now I do agree that the UK prices are generally very low, but that mostly due to the very weak pound (and a reason why I buy so much stuff at Amazon.co.uk).

Originally Posted by Roi Danton
That not really the point. Steam has UK prices, but since I don't live in the UK I don't really know them And if I start comparing prices I'll compare on a fair basis, that is German Gamersgate and German steam (or UK steam prices to UK Gamersgate).

I live in Denmark, and in Denmark - Steam is MUCH more expensive when it comes to non-indie games.

Why would anything else matter to me?

If they have a good reason NOT to implement a similar EU friendly structure, then I need to know - and then I can just not use Steam, without fighting against them.

But unfortunately, the only reason I see is greed.

Now I do agree that the UK prices are generally very low, but that mostly due to the very weak pound (and a reason why I buy so much stuff at Amazon.co.uk).

The Euro prices are equally low at Gamersgate.

So, there has to be some other explanation for it.

—-

But, I'm not asking the American or Australian consumer to care that Steam is incredibly expensive to a European.

I just hope you're aware of it, so you can be prepared when they achieve the monopoly. It should tell you something about their priorities.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
I live in Denmark, and in Denmark - Steam is MUCH more expensive when it comes to non-indie games.

Why would anything else matter to me?

It shouldn't. It's of course the most sensible approach to buy games where they are cheapest (unless other aspects matter).

If they have a good reason NOT to implement a similar EU friendly structure, then I need to know - and then I can just not use Steam, without fighting against them.

But unfortunately, the only reason I see is greed.

I don't know the reason. Greed isn't a bad guess, but I think there is more to it than the give me money stuff. And as I tried to explain earlier: Publisher says how much it costs. Oh, btw, that is the reason you are only able to compare prices in one region/country - because publisher set the prices per region. You are, of course able to buy stuff in the whole EU/world but that is not something that any publisher thinks about. They go at it like "Germany: 50€; UK: 30 pounds; US: 50$, etc. So comparing prices of a co.uk site (no matter if it is Amazon, Gamersgate or whatever with shops in other countries does not invalidate my argument that Valve has nothing to do with steam prices.

The Euro prices are equally low at Gamersgate.

So, there has to be some other explanation for it.

The Gamersgate prices are not equally low in euro. On the co.uk page they are only shown in pound sterling. On the de page they are in euro and generally not lower than on steam. If I missed something then please provide a linke because I'd like to see it and buy games there.

But, I'm not asking the American or Australian consumer to care that Steam is incredibly expensive to a European.

.

I'm German. I do care.

I just hope you're aware of it, so you can be prepared when they achieve the monopoly. It should tell you something about their priorities.

Yes, I'm shivering when I think about the steam monopoly. Really. Because they are so close.

Originally Posted by Roi Danton
It shouldn't. It's of course the most sensible approach to buy games where they are cheapest (unless other aspects matter).

At least we agree on that

I don't know the reason. Greed isn't a bad guess, but I think there is more to it than the give me money stuff. And as I tried to explain earlier: Publisher says how much it costs. Oh, btw, that is the reason you are only able to compare prices in one region/country - because publisher set the prices per region. You are, of course able to buy stuff in the whole EU/world but that is not something that any publisher thinks about. They go at it like "Germany: 50€; UK: 30 pounds; US: 50$, etc. So comparing prices of a co.uk site (no matter if it is Amazon, Gamersgate or whatever with shops in other countries does not invalidate my argument that Valve has nothing to do with steam prices.

I'm not saying Valve has anything to do with what the publishers are setting their prices at.

I'm saying that unless I can be given another explanation, I fail to understand why sites like Gamersgate or Direct2drive can manage to implement such cheap prices - regardless of their methods.

I'd need to understand what makes Steam different here. It seems to me they should be free to follow the example of the others.

Why can't they establish an alternative with cheaper prices for Europe?

In Europe, boxed retail is MUCH cheaper than Steam for these games. Isn't that strange?

The Gamersgate prices are not equally low in euro. On the co.uk page they are only shown in pound sterling. On the de page they are in euro and generally not lower than on steam. If I missed something then please provide a linke because I'd like to see it and buy games there.

You're right, they're actually not.

I'm not sure what has happened since the move to .co.uk - but I can only ask you to trust that Gamersgate used to be much cheaper on the .com site than they are now.

I haven't actually checked in the past 6 months or so, because I've been using .co.uk exclusively.

Out of curiosity - why don't you use the .co.uk site? They sell to Germany as well - and it should be much cheaper for you.

Yes, I'm shivering when I think about the steam monopoly. Really. Because they are so close.

Wait and see - and please remember this

Steam is certainly a danger of becoming a monopoly, not only because of how popular they are and how many boxed retail games are Steamworks enabled, but also because the media have basically already started treating Steam as PC gaming entirely. Almost every fucking article I read about a PC game or PC version says "it's on Steam" or "it's coming to Steam" even if the game is available elsewhere.

The ignorant masses follow the media and the media is telling them Steam is PC gaming now.

i think all of them have become more popular and that is a good thing for consumers.

no other download site can offer the support and extra features, not to mention valve is a developer and while i own most of their games i'm not much a fan of them and usually only pay around $10 for them.

since before a couple of years ago i was anti-download games i keep a close eye on all of them. the higher prices versus boxed versions was ridiculous i agree but that has slowly been changing as now they aren't sold in stores so no competion and the increase in sales online has lead to massive sale prices and promo deals on nearly a constant basis. anyone who thinks they aren't cheaper online now than in stores even long after their release either doesn't live in the US or is a liar/moron.

again there's far worst demons to slay than steam crowding out the market especially since all of the other sites have the ability to undercut steam by setting their own prices through schemes like on gamersgate where they can keep the same price but give you a reward in those damn blue coins which are a nice idea, since i get 5% now back on games purchase but they are more devalued than the peso was a few decades ago.

its funny and another reason to hate me but gog is probably the only site i don't own a substantial library of games on, not even one. why? because i own nearly all of the ones that interest me, though i do concede the extras and support, and reviews they have a nice bonus.