The Witcher 2 - Living World Gameplay Trailer @ Gametrailers

Originally Posted by Dasale
For duplicate visual in TW1 your conclusion is a bit superficial, if it's just about making different visual it's easy but cost more. Conclude from that it was badly done is very very short, it's just an element, and there was good points you won't find in Ultima 7 nor G2+NOTR, like influence of weather.

Calm down Dasale. I didn't say it was done badly. I understand why they did it. There's always trade offs that have to be made in terms of time and effort when making a game and I still think TW1 is one of the best RPGs in recent memory. I just prefer that games do no generic npcs if possible.

Originally Posted by aries100
As for the Radiant AI in Oblivion, yes they had a working form of this. However, in testing they found out that their radiant AI behaved like -ahem- real people, meaning that people would steal things from their -cough- neighbour. Or just borrow them, and when people came back for their things, say a rake, or a thingie, when the other people wouldn't give it back, an argument, and then a fight, and I do mean a real physical fight
would start. An npcs would kill each other, the guards would react, and suddenly entire cities would not be -ahem- alive another.

I remember reading that and it was definitely part of the reason for the Radiant Lobotomy, however the E3 video mock up they made prior to the game's release was obviously scripted. It had one npc referring to another specifically by name, another refers to her dog by name. The two men on the street talk in a conversation that makes sense and was clearly meant specifically for the two of them (not just any random npc that walks by). The woman in the house also interacts with the PC and her dog to a greater degree than interactions occur in the final game. Lastly, they used voice actors who don't exist in the final game, like the male dark elf voice from Morrowind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjbx6-KQoRg

If you watch that video and have played the release version of Oblivion I'm afraid the only conclusion that can be reached is that it was a scripted mock up. Now maybe they genuinely intended to have that degree of interaction in the final game, but somewhere along the way a decision was made to scale it way, way, WAY back. It's not just the 'town at war' reason either because the conversions themselves were far more generic and random than what was portrayed in that video.

As far as TW2 and their video is concerned, I'm not worried that it is a similar case as the Oblivion video since in this case the game is so close to release I don't think they could get away with something like that. Bethesda's video was early on and they have the 'Well we tried but we couldn't make it work excuse'.

I'm a drownerette! Raaaaaharr!

I haven't seen anything but can you still go into peoples houses and help yourself to whatever you want without them caring at all. That bugs me in many rpg's. It,s bad enough you can wander into their house but when you clean out their cupboards without a peep from them it seems very wrong.

I agree, that's a difficult one to handle as a gamer. On one hand, I need all the stuff that I can get. On the other, it just doesnt feel right looting someone's house right in front of them - total immersion breaker.

On the trailer: This is the type of stuff that helps to sell me on a game. One thing I've always disliked about some of the classics are the "fencepost npcs" that just stand there, night and day.

The movie reminded me a lot of the Gothic games, that's a good thing!

Originally Posted by aries100
As for the Radiant AI in Oblivion, yes they had a working form of this. However, in testing they found out that their radiant AI behaved like -ahem- real people, meaning that people would steal things from their -cough- neighbour. Or just borrow them, and when people came back for their things, say a rake, or a thingie, when the other people wouldn't give it back, an argument, and then a fight, and I do mean a real physical fight
would start. An npcs would kill each other, the guards would react, and suddenly entire cities would not be -ahem- alive another.

They would have thrown a lot because of little annoyance. Destructive behaviours are indeed a trouble, especially as it deprives a player from his regal status. The one that determines death and life on NPCs. In the player's hand, lays the power to destroy the gameworld.

But NPCs destructive behaviours can be watered down, neutered or eliminated. And seriously, where are the police in the example? Guards are to enforce the gameworld laws so what about them?

They probably had troubles with destructive behaviours but this example is too weak to justify the slash down they pushed their radiant AI through.

Skyrim will show whether or not they have radiant AI the type they said they had.

Here a link that has 250 screenshots from the first act.

Just a warning its not safe to view at work as the game has full nudity even the sex scenes.

http://www.ripten.com/2011/05/08/the…ns-to-die-for/

I can just see all the comments that will arise after its release.

So far the game earned many positive previews - and the latest one is from voodoo extreme, http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/preview…-Kings-Preview

Looks good. Nitpicking, there seems to be a bit too much of standing around stiffly (especially in conversations, e.g. at 2:01 and in the rain scene) and the one scene with the two ladies being afraid (2:21) was a bit comical because their animations played synchronously. Overall though, very nice!

I have to say it is kind of amusing that most of what they are bragging about was in The Witcher, and a ton of other RPGs for that matter.

Still it looks amazing.

Originally Posted by sakichop
I haven't seen anything but can you still go into peoples houses and help yourself to whatever you want without them caring at all. That bugs me in many rpg's. It,s bad enough you can wander into their house but when you clean out their cupboards without a peep from them it seems very wrong.

On the flip side, it rarely seems to work well when the devs try to implement AI that reacts to stealing. You tend to get AI characters that magically know when you stole something, even if you weren't in their line of sight.

Originally Posted by JDR13
On the flip side, it rarely seems to work well when the devs try to implement AI that reacts to stealing. You tend to get AI characters that magically know when you stole something, even if you weren't in their line of sight.

That reminds me, I was in the Ultima Online beta in the late 90s. Originally they had the guards pathfind their way to you if you stole or committed a crime. They found that in practice it worked out terribly and players found it easy to cheat the ai pathfinding and get away with it. The devs eventually threw their hands up had the guards teleport in saying that Lord British gave them a teleport spell. I guess they are like Santa Claus and know when you are doing something bad even from a great distance.

Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative
I have to say it is kind of amusing that most of what they are bragging about was in The Witcher, and a ton of other RPGs for that matter.

Maybe not enough people noticed so they are drawing attention to it? And yes, a lot of stuff from this trailer was introduced in TW but what other RPG* have NPCs sheltering from rain or that you could follow NPC from his/her home to work and back?

*I am not saying that TW was the only one I just can't remember seeing it anywhere else.

Originally Posted by JDR13
On the flip side, it rarely seems to work well when the devs try to implement AI that reacts to stealing. You tend to get AI characters that magically know when you stole something, even if you weren't in their line of sight.

Yup, pisses me off as much as ability to steal from NPCs right in front of them!

Originally Posted by JDR13
On the flip side, it rarely seems to work well when the devs try to implement AI that reacts to stealing. You tend to get AI characters that magically know when you stole something, even if you weren't in their line of sight.

yes they both are annoying i'm surprised it's so hard to do right. Seems easy enough if someone see's you your caught if no one see's you your not. That would be enough for me it doesn't need to be elaborate and take every scenario in to account.

Anyway, does anyone know for sure how the witcher 2 does it?

I know. You can rob someone blind and no-one will so much as comment on it. However, unsheathing a weapon first alerts the nearest guard, then, if you don't resheathe your weapon, the guard attacks and possibly calls for help (if he manages to survive long enough).

Guards in Flotsam are total pushovers btw. Rarely any shieldbearers, and shieldbearers are the hardest opponents.

I liked how Two Worlds II handled house theft. If a person doesn't know you and you enter their house, they immediately tell you to get out and if you don't they scream for the guards. A friend will just stare at you hard and the theft animation would stop, not allowing the theft. You could still rob most folks blind, by just waiting till a house was empty or drinking an invis potion.

Originally Posted by crpgnut
I liked how Two Worlds II handled house theft. If a person doesn't know you and you enter their house, they immediately tell you to get out and if you don't they scream for the guards. A friend will just stare at you hard and the theft animation would stop, not allowing the theft. You could still rob most folks blind, by just waiting till a house was empty or drinking an invis potion.

That is a good point. Trespassing, as well as theft, should really be viewed as a crime. I think a lot of developers are reluctant to go this route if their npcs are on schedules because it means the player won't have access to quest or merchant npcs at certain times.

To me I just think 'Well how hard is it to just rest or meditate until people are up and about?' but I guess there is always the concern that the player will get frustrated if they don't have immediate access to what they are looking for.

Originally Posted by zahratustra
Maybe not enough people noticed so they are drawing attention to it? And yes, a lot of stuff from this trailer was introduced in TW but what other RPG* have NPCs sheltering from rain or that you could follow NPC from his/her home to work and back?

*I am not saying that TW was the only one I just can't remember seeing it anywhere else.

I never seen the reaction to weather in another game, and it wasn't reaction to rain, but some reactions to soft rain, some other reactions to strong rain, and some other reactions to rain almost like tempest. And, if I remember well, there was multiple NPC little dialogs dedicated to the current weather. I laugh quite many time with that rains reactions.

For the daily occupation, I could be wrong, but I think Ultima 7 and Gothic 2+NOTR did better ie more detailed.

I think in the old Might and Magic games (remember those?) that shops had opening hours, carriage stations only ever were open on certain days, for instance Monday, Wednesday and Friday. And even in BG1 (not so much in BG2) shops were open at certain hours. In BG1, you could actually get away with stealing - if someone did not see you e.g. you were in their line of sight. If they did see you, they would call for the guards e.g. the Flaming Fist. The guards, the Flaming Fist, would also help in a fight. Don't know why this is not possible to do anymore - must be something to with the engine?

In the example I gave above, the guards would come - and -ahem- start killing the npcs because of their -cough- crimes. One npc in Oblívion steals an apple, she's promptly dealt with - the guards chase her and kills her…

Originally Posted by crpgnut
I liked how Two Worlds II handled house theft. If a person doesn't know you and you enter their house, they immediately tell you to get out and if you don't they scream for the guards.

Again, Gothic, anyone? There's so many things that game got right, and it's still close to unrivalled in those.

Opened and closed shops depending of the hours is a classical seen in plenty RPG. for the day in the weeks I'm not sure I ever seen it.

In BG1 I think there was also a part of pure luck computed by the game, no line of fight involved. But yes line of sight was also a mechanism working in BG1.