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December 24th, 2007, 17:09
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
Sneaking ability is a skill that must be acquired.
Ranged combat is easier to utilize, but much less effective and in the long run will prove more challenging than melee.
Ranged combat is almost useless until you drop some skill points into it, which you can't get until you up a level or two, which you can't do until you go in there with sword swinging. The game auto targets enemies, so your hero's ability to strike with range is dependant on the skill level he has, NOT with your ability to aim the mouse. Most enemies cannot be dropped only using arrows or bolts before they reach you. This is more attainable at higher levels.
I've figured out the leveling scheme, which is interesting. That's too bad that using ranged combat isn't terribly effective. The auto-aim feature is absurd, is there no way at all to target specific enemies? I've noticed that in melee my guy targets whomever is in front of him, which is extremely aggrivating.

What is more is that your 'range' of ranged attacks never increases, only accuracy, and the range is somewhat limited imho. If you insist on playing a ranged character, I would do it as a mage. Magic is more effective than arrows, but scrolls are also limited so use them wisely!
Eh, I don't like magic. Never really have in any fantasy game.

Gothic 2 is a punishing game. Most people either hate the combat or love it. There is no in-between. Once you understand "how it works," you may think it to be one of the best designed systems out there.
I pretty much get how it works on a basic level, but I really don't like it - it's far too mouse/keyboard dexterity dependent.
Further question, is it possible to develop a sneaky sort of melee fighter, with backstabs or something along those lines? Or is melee pretty much limited to swinging the biggest weapon you can until death occurs on one side or the other?

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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December 25th, 2007, 01:00
Originally Posted by xSamhainx View Post
Trying to finish Resident Evil 4 so I can fully concentrate on Witcher. I'm having a hard time now tho, because I'm literally running outta ammo. What do I do if I wind up with no ammunition, play the rest of the game thru with my knife? Those two El Gigante's totally ate up my reserves ( one of them went into the lava pit, the other I had to pump half my reserves into).

Wow Sammy, you're still not finished with RE4 yet?? It is indeed one of those games that you should take your time and savor though, I wish I had made it last that long.

Surprised to hear that you're running out of ammo, did you ever play any of the other RE games? Reason I ask is because, compared to the other games in the series, RE4 has a lot of ammo. I remember that part with the 2 El Gigante's, that was pretty tough. There's quite a few walkthoughs on the web that I found helpful in case you get stuck.
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December 25th, 2007, 01:10
Originally Posted by Gallifrey View Post
I pretty much get how it works on a basic level, but I really don't like it - it's far too mouse/keyboard dexterity dependent.
Further question, is it possible to develop a sneaky sort of melee fighter, with backstabs or something along those lines? Or is melee pretty much limited to swinging the biggest weapon you can until death occurs on one side or the other?

First off, are you playing with the NoTR expansion installed? If so, the game is extremely difficult for people who are new to the series.

I would highly recommend playing G1 first. Also, ranged combat might seem frustrating at first because your skill level is so low, if you get your skill level higher it becomes much more effective, although it would be tough to beat the game as a pure archer. The melee combat in the Gothic games has a steep learning curve, but is a thing of beauty once mastered.

*Edit* Almost forgot, you can indeed choose your target when fighting multiple enemies, I forget what the default key is, check the manual.
Last edited by JDR13; December 25th, 2007 at 02:06.
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December 25th, 2007, 02:03
@magerette-
I think you'll enjoy Pirates quite a bit. The mechanics are simple and a bit repetitive, but somehow it works. It's also rather open-ended once you get your feet under you—there's quite a few threads to follow (top 10 pirates, pirate treasures, romance, family, ranks, city conquering, lost cities, etc) and your career generally doesn't last long enough to chase them all.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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December 25th, 2007, 02:42
pirates was enjoyable. like all other recent sid meier games they are really causual gamer friendly: easy learning curve, and fun whether you play for 15 minutes or for hours on end. i can play those games for a few weeks out of a year (good thing he doesn't come out with much more) because they are not story based games which always results in me going one more 'career' or 'civilization' and end up abandoning it when i've had enough, and the gameplay becomes unappealing altogether. pirates lasted pretty long for me though even though i only played through one 'lifetime'…i found the dancing the most addicting part actually! the little turn based battles were fun as well though low on the variety.

now that the last week of chaos and no gaming has ended, i'll be getting back to a deus ex playthrough that i started at the begining of the month. i've only completed the game once (started a few replays but never got past hong kong )and that was years ago. i had forgotten how long it truly was and some parts are truly awesome. i may even have to reasses whether i still like deus ex 2 better though there are still some things i think the sequel improved upon even if its tiny levels and shorter story are obvious flaws. the actually factional choices, and quests for example make it much more like an rpg to me than the lack of ammo types, and upgradeable skills for example.
don't have much further in the game to go as i'm about to start the area 51 level.
Last edited by curiously undead; December 25th, 2007 at 02:53.
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December 25th, 2007, 03:55
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
First off, are you playing with the NoTR expansion installed? If so, the game is extremely difficult for people who are new to the series.
I'm just playing the Gothic 2 demo. If I decide to buy the game I'll definitely go for the NotR expansion version.

I would highly recommend playing G1 first. Also, ranged combat might seem frustrating at first because your skill level is so low, if you get your skill level higher it becomes much more effective, although it would be tough to beat the game as a pure archer. The melee combat in the Gothic games has a steep learning curve, but is a thing of beauty once mastered.
Do you recommend playing G1 first for story reasons or game mechanics reasons, or both? I've heard that the control scheme for Gothic 1 is even more bizarre than it is for 2.

*Edit* Almost forgot, you can indeed choose your target when fighting multiple enemies, I forget what the default key is, check the manual.
Again, just playing the demo, but good to know target selection is indeed possible.

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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December 25th, 2007, 04:18
Originally Posted by Gallifrey View Post
Do you recommend playing G1 first for story reasons or game mechanics reasons, or both? I've heard that the control scheme for Gothic 1 is even more bizarre than it is for 2.
.

I forgot you were just playing the demo. Playing Gothic 1 first isn't absolutely necessary, but it would make you appreciate G2 more I think.

The controls for G 1&2 are definitely not bizarre, just different. The first time I played G1 it took me about 15-20 minutes to get used to them, but it was pure love after that. The only people who stand by the opinion that Gothic had a bad control scheme are the morons who gave up after 5 minutes.
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December 25th, 2007, 04:41
Well, my impressions so far of the G2 combat controls are that the success or failure of my character depend largely on my co-ordination between moving the mouse around to control my facing/pressing the attack button and using the movement keys to determine the sort of attacks that my guy performs. So far I'm not doing too well.
There also doesn't appear to be a way to access things like healing potions in my inventory while in combat, which is a bit irritating.

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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December 25th, 2007, 05:21
G2 allows potion use via a configurable hot button. The full version mentions it in the readme IIRC. The devs specifically mentioned their deliberate decision to leave that sort of feature out, citing it was less realistic. If you do enable the potions hotbutton, know that your enemies will not react any differently and will slaughter you while you are chugging down that bottle.

And yes, being good with your mouse and keyboard is necessary at least in the first several levels. The game gets easier as you progress, and is so darn tough in the beginning that it seems very rewarding when you reach the higher levels.

You can switch targets as JDR says, but that simply means you have to turn and face that guy as opposed to the first. There are no group attacks or anything like in more recently developed games.

No, there is no way to change the way ranged targeting works. If you want mouse targeting, play Gothic 3 - they switched to that style finally..

Unfortunately there are no one-strike sneak attacks. Remember that these first two Gothic games were made quite a while ago and although they were revolutionary for their time, they are pretty basic by today's standard options.

The controls are simpler and more effective (open to debate among fans) in G2 as opposed to G1. I prefer G2 controls, but did just fine with G1. Some people just never get the hang of it. In fact, there are a lot of those people, so if it just doesn't seem like the right game for you, don't fret, you are not alone.

If you do start to get the hang of the controls and can stomach them, I would also suggest playing G1 first. The reason is because of difficulty. G1 was tough titties, but G2 with NOTR is positively brutal. Get your feet wet in G1 first, and if you finish that, not only will you enter G2 with knowing all of the background lore, but you will also have a much better idea of how to approach the gameplay and character building.

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December 25th, 2007, 06:27
You can drink a healing potion during battle if you want, but you might get killed doing it. Like jabberwocky mentioned, the game is a bit more realistic than most RPG's, which is a trait that most Gothic fans appreciate. A potion will not be consumed instantaneously like in most games, but rather you will actually take the bottle out and chug the contents.
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December 25th, 2007, 08:03
@Gallifrey: 2 quick things on G2: the guy you're going to hit is highlighted a bit. I think you can turn this off and on in the options. Basically, like others said, just turn toward the guy you want to hit and hope you can stay locked on him. There's also a "lock on" key, but I've never gotten that to work consistently enough to make it worth adding another keystroke to an already demanding control system.

Speaking of the control system, my other point is that you may want to try pure keyboard and abandon the mouse all together. I found it much, much easier that way. And as an added bonus, you'll think you're gaming like it's 1979!
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December 25th, 2007, 14:03
Originally Posted by chamr View Post
@Gallifrey: 2 quick things on G2: the guy you're going to hit is highlighted a bit. I think you can turn this off and on in the options. Basically, like others said, just turn toward the guy you want to hit and hope you can stay locked on him. There's also a "lock on" key, but I've never gotten that to work consistently enough to make it worth adding another keystroke to an already demanding control system.
I'll look for that lock-on option, but I don't recall seeing it in the control list. I'm thinking that as the game progresses though and my guy gets better equipped and protected and I get a bit better with the controls it won't be such a huge issue, but it's good to have the option if available.

Speaking of the control system, my other point is that you may want to try pure keyboard and abandon the mouse all together. I found it much, much easier that way. And as an added bonus, you'll think you're gaming like it's 1979!
Hm, that's not a bad idea, I'll give it a try. And heck, sometimes playing on this computer feels like gaming in 1979!

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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December 25th, 2007, 18:10
At the end of RE4 now, the word on the street is that it's pretty much all boss fights from here on out. Ive been stockpiling ammo and healing items for a few chapters now - I'm going in!
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December 25th, 2007, 19:34
Originally Posted by Gallifrey View Post
Well, my impressions so far of the G2 combat controls are that the success or failure of my character depend largely on my co-ordination between moving the mouse around to control my facing/pressing the attack button and using the movement keys to determine the sort of attacks that my guy performs. So far I'm not doing too well.
A friend of mine (from the Larian forums) "used" her son's or daughter's (don't quite remember) ability to perform such difficult fights via the keyboard - also, she isn't good at jump & run games or parts within games, so she wrote that she's often glad she has a son or daughter who is able to help her out on these parts.

Me, I'm playing G1 again ( since December, 23rd ) , and I'm not quite … sure whether this kind of fighting is for me, because I seem to have quite some problems in swinging back & forth with the blade.

Of course, this is more realistic, and of course, this is more challenging - no doubt this is no game for "whiners".

Making G2 even more difficult witzh the add-on is a clear sign to me that PB listened to the "hardcore fanbois" (sorry, but that's the way this message reaches me) who want a REAL game and not some wishiwashi for whiners.

Of course, THIS typ of gamers will have fun with this game - and even yawn at this level of difficulty at one point in the future - but on the other hand it's a very "strict" and effective way to keep all those "whiners" - read: casual players/gamers - out.

And this world is a men's world. Especially in G1 - which in my theory mostly attracts gamers who actually like this layout - bit of morphogenetic fields applied in my theory.

And to me - sorry, but this is just my opinion - this - kind of making G2 even more difficult - is pure machismo.


I'd like to make some research on how women think of this - but for being effective, I'd need a web site which is actually very big (read: often visited), to gain enough data. Which I haven't.

So, all I can say is that this is my opinion and my theory.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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December 25th, 2007, 23:51
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Me, I'm playing G1 again ( since December, 23rd ) , and I'm not quite … sure whether this kind of fighting is for me, because I seem to have quite some problems in swinging back & forth with the blade.

Keep in mind that the mechanics of the melee combat change considerably once you use LP's to purchase sword training. The weapon movements look and feel clumsy at first because they are supposed to.
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December 26th, 2007, 14:40
Okay, I see.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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December 27th, 2007, 18:22
Well, my long-suffering better half got me Medieval Total War II and Civilization IV Gold (includes Warlords expansion) for Christmas, along with a discount card for EB Games. So I've got strategy gaming goodness for months available to me, and the means to get the Kingdoms and Beyond The Sword expansions at a cheaper price.
I don't know what she was thinking!

I've played the MTW2 tutorials so far (haven't installed Civ yet, but I've played the various demos for it, so I know what to expect) and so far so good, it actually runs smoothly on my antique computer (pretty low settings of course), so it looks like there's great scalability attached to this game. It looks and plays a lot like a refined Rome Total War. I rather do miss the impressive stylized visuals (particularly the illustrations) of the first Medieval, and the music and atmosphere in 2 is no-where near as rich as it was in 1.
But it does seem to have a deeper gameplay, so it may be a fair trade-off.

As for my time with the Gothic 2 demo, I liked it enough to keep an eye out for the game. I don't think I'll be scrambling after it at all costs, but if I come across it for a good price with the NotR expansion I'll definitely pick it up.

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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December 27th, 2007, 22:28
With a few days of free time im catching up on 2007 with Bioshock, Crysis, Halo 2 and Gears of War. I should probably play Mask of the Betrayer and Witcher as well, but I might also save them for next summer…
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December 28th, 2007, 00:11
Gothic II gold edition spanked me hard, I uninstalled it after a while, I felt like i was running to stand still. On one paw I was killing Shadowbeasts, on the other, I was getting my tail handed to me left and right by wolves and other such flotsam and jetsam. Screw that. I've got the regular edition, I'm going to play that one instead, one of these days.

JDr - i was fine with ammo until I hit the double El Gigante assault, that thing pretty much drained all my shotgun and rifle rounds til I was left with nothing but some handgun rounds. Luckily for me, the next few stages were primarily against zombies, who I could for the most part take out with my knife (especially from the top of a ladder!) and I was able to rebuild my stockpile for the coming battles with larger opponents.
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December 28th, 2007, 00:18
@ Gallifrey: Imho there is no comparing MTWII / MTWI. The second one is immeasurably better in almost all respects. You may be right about the music though - it's been too long I don't remember.

Have fun!

..& so they take the fiction all out of the Jabberwock & I recognize & accept him as a fact. - Mark Twain, May 30, 1880
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