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Default 32bit Vista can't fully utilizes 4GB RAM?

March 2nd, 2007, 18:38
Is that multiple choice? I'll go with (b).

(a) doesn't make sense because new features are only useful as a way to enhance (b) and new versions are inherently less secure. As for (c) customers are only useful as revenue streams … and there are always layoffs.

If there wasn't a need to support new hardware and application needs, as well as competition from OS X and Linux, there would be no Vista.

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March 2nd, 2007, 18:39
Walp, that problem was solved quickly. All I had to do was disable multithreading for OpenGL in the nVidia control panel, and KOTOR 2 came up just fine. IOW, I'm back to "no showstoppers" status WRT games. Bring it on, Team Gizka! :-)

And yeah, you're right — there are no rational reasons to go with Vista yet. Perhaps DirectX 10 will be one somewhere down the line, but it'll be a while yet.

FWIW, so far I've played the following on Vista 64-bit:
+ VtM: Bloodlines
+ NWN2
+ Oblivion
+ KOTOR 2

While none of these are exactly stone-age, the fact that they all run is pretty encouraging when considering application back compatibility.
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March 2nd, 2007, 21:58
Actually, cancel that. I got it to start… once. I haven't gotten it to start since. Go figure. Still, people are running KOTOR 2 on Vista, and I got it to start once, so there's got to be a way of doing it. Oh well, back to the ol' drawing board…
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March 3rd, 2007, 00:39
Found something for you…
KOTOR 2 has problems with Vista,basically you can only get it to run with sound disabled in options of the game,this has been reported by many players/members at the official Lucas Arts KOTOR 2 forums,if I find a fix to the sound problem I'll let you know.

Update on KOTOR 2,if you click the KOTOR 2 exe.file or keep trying to run the game it will eventually load and play with sound,success rate is like 25 to 1,it normally will just crash but be patient and keep trying,I got it to run and played it for about 2 hours in the game.

The hard bit will be trying to get it to run again, but so far I have got it to play with sound about 4 times tonight so its possible if you are patient.

UPDATE PART 2: It seems a few owners can play KOTOR 2 with no problems while others have problems,no real pattern at the moment ,but I keep looking into this one.
From here:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev…readid=2001223
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March 3rd, 2007, 21:25
Thanking you kindly, bookmarked. I hope there'll be a better fix by the time Team Gizka finishes up. I would hate to have to rig up XP on my box just for this purpose (yes, I do want to play it that badly. :-) )

Edit: I tried disabling sound, and it came up like a charm. The funny thing was, when I quit, re-enabled sound, and started it, it came up again… once. Doing the same dance again failed to work.

There is something vewwy vewwy mystewious going on around here. But clearly there's hope. Perhaps I'll see if I can find some new sound drivers…
Last edited by Prime Junta; March 3rd, 2007 at 21:37. Reason: Tried it…
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March 3rd, 2007, 22:55
Microsoft sux for releasing a 32 bit version of Vista. It really pisses me off. Gothic 2 would love the RAM.

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March 4th, 2007, 14:46
Somebody stop me if you get bored, but I think the KOTOR 2/Vista problem has been resolved — I just tried starting and quitting it a couple of times and it appears to work fine. The fix was to replace the Miles Sound System DLL with a different one. Specifics here: [ http://forums.team-gizka.org/viewtop…r=asc&start=30 ].
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March 4th, 2007, 16:02
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Microsoft sux for releasing a 32 bit version of Vista. It really pisses me off. Gothic 2 would love the RAM.
Come to think of it… I agree. We've gotten to the point where the 32-bit architecture is holding up progress, and since it's clear that it's possible to make the 64-bit version run 32-bit programs just as well as the 32-bit version (again, none of the problems I've had with Vista are attributable to the fact I'm using the 64-bit edition), and very few people indeed are likely to even run it on a 32-bit processor, there really isn't any reason not to "force" people to go 64-bit. Get it over with and all that.
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March 5th, 2007, 03:53
I've given both vista 32 and 64 ultimate lengthy test drives and eventually settled on running vista 32. I started with Vista 64 and it actually ran very well. I had few driver issues since my hardware is relatively new (~ 5-6 months). What compelled me to change to vista 32 in the end was the irritating inability to install unsigned drivers in vista 64, which left me unable to use many of the little utilities I've come to rely on. Too much of a hassle to continually find workarounds (i.e., no software to control voltage and fan speeds on a ATI 1900xt and having to mod the card's BIOS, etc, etc).

Vista 32 is a bit more tolerant than vista 64 (though a few of the little utilities I've come to rely on won't work in vista 32, either, such as ATI Tools…).

—Edit—-
Oh, and another thing I should mention if you're buying a new machine is to get a Creative X-Fi as a sound card. Microsoft has rewritten the sound system in Vista and it no longer supports HARDWARE-based Directsound3D. So if you like to play older games that use Directsound3D, the Vista sound system will render it in software stereo with no EAX if you're using on-board sound, a creative Live or an Audigy. The X-Fi uses OpenAL to emulate Directsound3D in hardware… (http://preview.creativelabs.com/alchemy/default.aspx for a more understandable explanation). Creative sounds more than a little pissed when they talk about it in the aforementioned link! :-)
—-End Edit—-
Last edited by jalong; March 5th, 2007 at 04:08.
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March 5th, 2007, 08:51
That's good advice, although only if you have a surround sound system. If you only use stereo speakers or headphones, there's no benefit to the X-Fi.
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March 5th, 2007, 15:51
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
That's good advice, although only if you have a surround sound system. If you only use stereo speakers or headphones, there's no benefit to the X-Fi.
I beg to differ. 3D sound works with headphones too, and since you get hardware based DirectSound acceleration (plus EAX) with the X-Fi, you get more fps in games with DirectSound3D/EAX/A3D. Vanguards benefits greatly from that I think.

Besides, having a dedicated soundcard is still better than built-in sound on the mainboard, if you care about speed/quality (X-Fi) or less about speed but even more about quality (Auzentech Meridian 7.1, relatively pricey though).

Of course, you still need *good* speakers or headphones I suppose. Well, let me rephrase your comment then:

That's good advice, although only if you have a surround sound system or good stereo speakers or headphones. If you only have small desktop speakers or headphones for less than € 50,- (arbitrary number), there's no benefit to the X-Fi.


In this regard, it amuses me when I hear from people who spend 500$-1000$ on a graphics solution for their system and then use onboard sound with cheap speakers. I guess it's easier to justify better graphic cards because you can see their benefits on screenshots and in FPS benchmarks. But what most people probably don't know is that such quality jumps are possible with good sound hardware too.

I've been using headphones for € 20,- or so for a while, until one day I upgraded to Sennheiser HD-590's for € 150,-. It was like I've been living in a garage hearing muffled sound for years and then going outside to hearing a full blown orchestra…. Ok, not that dramatic but you get the idea.

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March 6th, 2007, 03:13
I use Logitech headphones; I can't afford anything better, but I do understand your point. As in all things, you get what you pay for!!

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March 6th, 2007, 10:09
I'll definitely go for X-Fi. I got stuck for while on whether to buy a mid-range or high-end speakers. I checked several high-end models and more often than not found recommendations of Logitech Z-5500. Its specifications certainly very impressive but i'm not specifically looking for bass-heavy or room shaking speaker, nor in the habit of listening to really loud music. One reviewer said he haven't even turned its volume near half way point and already got into trouble with neigbours. So recently i'm eyeing the Logitech Z-5300, which is pretty high-end as it specs look higher than most mid-range speakers, seems good enough for X-Fi and and packed quite a lot of power.
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March 7th, 2007, 07:36
I bought an X-Fi when they were still new, and was really bummed when I realized that, unlike their previous cards, they hadn't and wouldn't release any specifications for their new architecture, meaning that there's STILL no Linux sound driver for the X-Fi. About a year ago Creative announced that they would release a proprietary driver "summer 2007", so I'm still hopeful…

On the Vista 32-/64-bit issue, it strikes me as somewhat pointless to "upgrade" to Vista at all if you already have valid XP license. If Microsoft hold true to their "promise" of not taking so long making their next OS (Ballmer said "2-3 years") I will most likely skip Vista altogether, even though I received a free legal copy of Vista Business through my university.

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March 8th, 2007, 04:32
Originally Posted by KazikluBey View Post
On the Vista 32-/64-bit issue, it strikes me as somewhat pointless to "upgrade" to Vista at all if you already have valid XP license. If Microsoft hold true to their "promise" of not taking so long making their next OS (Ballmer said "2-3 years") I will most likely skip Vista altogether, even though I received a free legal copy of Vista Business through my university.
I upgraded to Vista (which does have some useful new features) for one reason: DirectX 10. As a gamer, it's an inevitable change as long as I want to play new games, so why not change now? It's just another change in a LONG line of OS changes I've made on the x86 architecture: DOS 3-6, Desqview, OS/2 2.0-4.0, Linux, Windoze 2.0 to Vista. I've always seen people vow to hold back and the majority always inevitably seem to change as the newest software and games get written for the newest OS (and the new PCs are bundled with the new OS). So I just accept the inevitable…

I must admit, I've used Linux off and on for years and would love to use it as a full-time OS, but it is just not a good gaming OS. OS/2 was a wonderful OS that in many ways is still superior to XP and Vista… but it is not a good gaming OS. So I'm stuck with Vista. :-(
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March 8th, 2007, 08:07
I went into a store to buy Vista 64 and the salesperson/manager refused to sell it to me since it was buggy and crap (his words)!! This surprised me, since it was advertised on their website!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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March 8th, 2007, 21:52
Re X-Fi — well, it just so happens I'll have something more to say about that soon. The audio out jack on the Realtek circuits on my mobo has been a bit dodgy for a while now (just after the warranty ran out, natch), and it finally got to the point where it won't give out any left channel sound at all. I decided to repair it the fun way, and now have an X-Fi on order. I'll let you guys know if it's any different in practice. (My headphones aren't horrible.)
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March 9th, 2007, 01:38
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
I went into a store to buy Vista 64 and the salesperson/manager refused to sell it to me since it was buggy and crap (his words)!! This surprised me, since it was advertised on their website!!
My experience is that salespeople/managers are not exactly knowledgeable about what they are selling, though they like to pretend they are. Vista 64 is not particularly buggy, at least in my experience. There ARE: (1) driver issues, (2) an additional layer of software incompatibility issues over and above those encountered with Vista 32, and (3) an irritating inability to install unsigned drivers, leaving you unable to run some 64-bit programs that worked with WinXP 64. These might be perceived as "bugs" by a salesperson but in actuality, they are not. They DO make it more difficult to move to Vista 64 when compared to Vista 32.

In my case, I have relatively new hardware and I was able to find Vista 64 drivers or XP 64 drivers that worked. Some of the first generation Vista 64 drivers do not have the functionality of their XP counterparts. Some of the drivers are beta with the attendant possibility of bugs. The only piece of hardware I could not find drivers for was my Adaptec 2940U2W SCSI card, which is hardly a new piece of equipment (i.e. from 1998). So I went on Ebay, picked up an Adaptec 29160 Ultra 160 for $25.00 and my SCSI drives were back on-line.

Once the drivers were installed, Vista 64 proved to be very stable and basically ran flawlessly. Bottom-line: thoroughly investigate the driver support for your hardware before choosing Vista 64. The driver support is kind of spotty even with new, top-of-the-line hardware.

As for software incompatibility, I had to:
(1) buy AVG professional since AVG Free won't work on Vista 64,
(2) give up ATI Tools and mod my Video card BIOS for fan control,
(3) buy Nero Ultimate because Nero Lite would not work,
(4) run Norton Ghost 10 from my WinXP maintenance partition since it would not work on Vista 32/64 and Norton is not about to release a patch,
(5) run Norton Partition Magic from my WinXP partition for the same reasons,
(6) have a massive struggle with my IPAQ 2210 and the windows mobile syncing software (which was fixed by wiping my handheld and upgrading the ROM with a newer version of Windows Mobile), and
(7) find replacements or do without some of the little utilities I've come to rely on.

Bottom Line: upgrading to Vista 64 is not for the faint of heart. It might take a couple of weekends to get everything working and tweaked to your satisfaction. And if your hardware does not have 64 bit drivers, you're SOL (and don't forget drivers for your printer, scanner, keyboard, mouse, joystick, NIC and sound card!). But, Vista 64 is NOT particularly buggy… :-)
Last edited by jalong; March 9th, 2007 at 01:47.
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March 9th, 2007, 09:47
There are no directx10 games on the market currently so why on earth would you upgrade now, buying vista is like DOWNGRADING your system. You get less performance and have to worry about things like DHCP.

When directx10 games do come out I would just run a dual boot system and only use vista when playing those directx10 games.

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March 9th, 2007, 12:48
Creative Labs Vista audio forum is engulfing in gigantic flame war. They just released new X-Fi driver for Vista 32bit/64bit. They really need to release a better driver.

Auzentech also released the Auzen X-Meridian new driver. Anyone using the sound card? How stable the new driver in Vista 32bit?
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