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Default Avadon - Released on iPad

June 20th, 2011, 12:02
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Look - 99% of you are blindly anti-Apple frothing zealots, so there is nothing to see for you, so just piss off…
First, there are many reasons to dismiss or even hate the company forcing overpriced underpowered electronics upon masses, while milking developers to make it more interesting. But leave that behind us.

Second, this kind of price difference between various platforms is just not justifiable. If you would take a break from calling names, and could explain how exactly is this version worth less money, please do.

If he cannot sell the product for reasonable price at the certain market, he shouldn't go there. By underpricing, he is lowering the perceived value of the product, making current customers less satisfied and future customers less willing to pay the price.
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June 20th, 2011, 12:04
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Yeah, your post just screams "open mind" doesn't it.
No:
- I was quite willing to come here and find that people applauded a RPG of this type and scope coming to this format for the first time.
- I was quite willing to come here and find that while people would have hoped for price parity they understood the different dynamics of various markets don't allow for that.

However, the mindless anti-Apple trolling and bashing of anyone who says anything positive about an Apple product are amongst the reasons I made myself rare (as well as admin tolerance if not encouragement of such). So while I hoped for intelligence and reason, I was not surprised to see base mindless 'hurgh hurgh Apple r teh sux0rz' mindset and true morons looking for a refund due to different pricing on different operating systems …

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June 20th, 2011, 12:06
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
You are very close to testing the limit of that.

Look, apart from the fact that I find it funny that you bitch about the pricepoint of games you proclaim not to be interested in - he has explained his price policy very clearly in several blog posts, and articles. You can of course not like it, but he has been very open and transparent about his reasons, and he has again been very transparent here. For anyone who knows anything about the iStore its very clear that a pricepoint much higher than $10 is absolutely unrealistic. The ONLY thing that sells at higher pricepoints that I know off are GPS navigation Apps.

In truth this is about you not liking these mobile platforms because it might pull people away from your preferred platform, isn't it?

Is it so hard for you to believe that I think it's a "fuck you" to his customers, and nothing more?

It's a statement of opinion without emotional investment. I DO get emotional, however, when I get accused of feeling entitled and being a whiny brat about something I logically can't have a personal issue with.

Some of us actually go beyond our own little island and look at what might be the consequences of taking certain actions.

It's not about how he tries to justify it to himself and to the people who bought his games.

It's simply about the message you're sending when you charge 25$ on one platform, and shortly after charge 10$ on another platform - when the only reason in the world is your own selfish gains. That's what I see, and nothing more.

As for what you're willing to accept from me, you've got to be kidding if you think what you will accept will ever have anything to do with what I think is the right way to conduct yourself.

He can charge 1000$ for his games, and it wouldn't matter to me. What matters is that I get to speak my mind about it - and it's based on what I think is right - not how "entitled" I feel.
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June 20th, 2011, 12:09
Originally Posted by Daddy32 View Post
First, there are many reasons to dismiss or even hate the company forcing overpriced underpowered electronics upon masses, while milking developers to make it more interesting. But leave that behind us.
I assume you are talking about Intel-CPU, Microsoft-OS laptops here?

Originally Posted by Daddy32 View Post
Second, this kind of price difference between various platforms is just not justifiable. If you would take a break from calling names, and could explain how exactly is this version worth less money, please do.
The App Store ecosystem for iPad is based off of a $9.99 ceiling. Apps that go above that are very rare, and enjoy little success. People will pay $9.99, but not $12.99 and certainly not $25.

For Vogel it is a matter of economies of scale - unless he wanted to sell ZERO copies he needed to price according to the reality of the marketplace - and make it up with volume. I mean, how do you think those developers making money on the app store do it? Not every app is trivial, and some require significant development, which is then recouped through numbers rather than margin.

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June 20th, 2011, 12:11
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Is it so hard for you to believe that I think it's a "fuck you" to his customers, and nothing more?
Yes, it really is. That attitude is entirely selfish and immature, nothing more. It ignores realities that could easily be discovered by a quick Google search.

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June 20th, 2011, 12:12
If "fuck you" is a statement of opinion without emotional investment for you, maybe you are just not the kind of person I want to discuss this stuff with. I don't see what so hard to understand about the fact that realities on these platforms are different and pricing takes that into account. But I'll leave you to it.
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June 20th, 2011, 12:14
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
No:
- I was quite willing to come here and find that people applauded a RPG of this type and scope coming to this format for the first time.
- I was quite willing to come here and find that while people would have hoped for price parity they understood the different dynamics of various markets don't allow for that.
No, not for one second you weren't. You came here excepting people to agree with you, because obviously you were in the right about it.

People who think a 60% (!) price reduction for a pretty much identical game is too much simply HAVE to be mindless anti-Apple trolls - right?

How about me? Can I be a relatively reasonable person and have that opinion? Can I?

I'm not the one calling people whiny or making ANY personal attack. I'm saying what I think of Vogel's action - that's it.

However, the mindless anti-Apple trolling and bashing of anyone who says anything positive about an Apple product are amongst the reasons I made myself rare (as well as admin tolerance if not encouragement of such). So while I hoped for intelligence and reason, I was not surprised to see base mindless 'hurgh hurgh Apple r teh sux0rz' mindset and true morons looking for a refund due to different pricing on different operating systems …
Oh, what a useless rant that is.

You know as well as I do that if "the other side" has to be mindless anti-Apple trolling - then you have to be a pro-Apple slobbering fanboy.

Either argue your case soundly, or be accepted as a pointless contributor.

As much as I think the platform is destructive to gaming as a whole - this is about Avadon specifically.
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June 20th, 2011, 12:15
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Yes, it really is. That attitude is entirely selfish and immature, nothing more. It ignores realities that could easily be discovered by a quick Google search.
Tell me where on Google I can find that an indie CRPG must be set at 25$.
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June 20th, 2011, 12:16
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
No:
…However, the mindless anti-Apple trolling and bashing of anyone who says anything positive about an Apple product…
Look, Apple sucks, but that's a topic for another discussion. Point here is that I'm not ever going to tolerate 150% increase of the price, depending on the platform, without getting higher value in return.

I don't care about reasoning for the pricing (well I do, when it's this ridiculous. No keyboard shortcuts, right.) - I care about what I get for extra money. If the same product is being sold for substantially lower price at certain market, I go and buy it there. If I can't, I don't buy it at all.
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June 20th, 2011, 12:18
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I don't play or pay for subpar mainstream indie games.

The price of the App store is not the point, it's the price of the PC version - which was already quite high.

That's my opinion, though.

If you think it's ok to charge 25$ for the PC version and shortly after charge 10$ for the iPad version - that's your business.

Then again, you accept everything from everyone - don't you?
I agree.

10 bucks is probably much more in line with what people are willing to pay for a game unless it's something they just have to have, maybe a bit more for PC than iphone, though. 20 bucks is probably the highest price point an indie game should set even if it's the greatest game ever made and has AAA graphics. It's nothing to do with what the game is 'worth' but what people will pay.

I don't think the prices in the apple store are random at all, they are the product of what people will pay.

How many people would pirate a game if it were 5 bucks, after all? And how many times have I heard devs say 100x as many people pirate their games than buy them? Well if you got a buck for every user that would be better than getting 40 or even 80 bucks from 1% of your users, right? I mean these guys must know basic math if they are programmers, but somehow when it gets applied to money they go blind to reality.

But unfortunately it probably costs more than 5 bucks just to process an order unless you go through someone like apple or steam, and there's also the inconvenience factor of giving cc to some random site and the simple fact large portions of the world don't have credit cards or paypal available in their country at all.
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June 20th, 2011, 12:18
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
If "fuck you" is a statement of opinion without emotional investment for you, maybe you are just not the kind of person I want to discuss this stuff with. I don't see what so hard to understand about the fact that realities on these platforms are different and pricing takes that into account. But I'll leave you to it.
Maybe I've already taken that into account, and YOU haven't taken into account that I've already taken it into account. Sometimes, you might miss something that others have not?

In any case, I don't want any debate. I spoke my mind - and people reacted and started a debate by accusing those who differ of being whiny and entitled.

You even went so far as to say I was testing your limit.

You're being ridiculously dramatic, as are several people here.

But that's your business.

Oh, and when I say that Vogel's action is a "fuck you" - how does that make me emotional? I call it like I see it.
Last edited by DArtagnan; June 20th, 2011 at 12:29.
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June 20th, 2011, 12:21
PS hard to believe even more whining about how his fans are abusing him. I can't stand this trend, which is not limited to this clown but seems to be an epidemic. Our dumb/pirating/elitist/disloyal/unreasonable fans are the reason we have to simplify/cut jobs/make expensive DLC/make an mmo.
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June 20th, 2011, 12:26
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
You're being ridiculously dramatic, as are several people here.
If you are looking for drama, may I suggest a mirror?
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June 20th, 2011, 12:26
I'll be interested to see how this develops but, as an actual customer, I'm not bothered by the difference.

-= RPGWatch =-
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June 20th, 2011, 12:28
You know, games for every platform can already be bought for significantly less, depending on the store where you buy it. I've never heard anyone complain about that.
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June 20th, 2011, 12:31
Originally Posted by Thaurin View Post
You know, games for every platform can already be bought for significantly less, depending on the store where you buy it. I've never heard anyone complain about that.
That's because developers are rarely directly responsible for setting the retail price.
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June 20th, 2011, 12:33
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
If you are looking for drama, may I suggest a mirror?
Are you suggesting I'm so physically unattractive that I'll provoke drama by looking at myself, even after all these years?

That's harsh
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June 20th, 2011, 12:50
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
That's because developers are rarely directly responsible for setting the retail price.
Sure, but in that case, it's the retailers adjusting to a market to maximise their own selfish gains. Simple economics, you cannot deny them you hopeless idealist you.
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June 20th, 2011, 13:00
Originally Posted by Thaurin View Post
Sure, but in that case, it's the retailers adjusting to a market to maximise their own selfish gains. Simple economics, you cannot deny them you hopeless idealist you.
Can you possibly guess how I feel about the opportunism of publishers?

Obviously, if you're the sort of person who thinks every opportunity to make more money should be taken - then this is a fine decision.

Personally, I think it's a needlessly greedy move - and I think Vogel should have priced the PC version lower. If he didn't have the necessary foresight (right) - he should offer some kind of compensation as a matter of goodwill. Perhaps a price reduction for another game - or whatever.

But that's just my opinion, and he can do whatever the hell he likes - and I suffer no illusion that people will agree with it.

So, it's not about the "market reality" of the Apple store - but rather the "market reality" of the PC market. I'm not going to claim to be a business genius - but if he'd priced Avadon for PC at 15-20$, he might have sold a lot more copies. In any case, I think it's a bad taste move as it was done.

Then again, maybe I'm the last person in the world who appreciates it when people care more about being fair than squeezing the lemon until it's fully dry.
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June 20th, 2011, 13:16
I don't necessarily agree with DArt and to be honest I think it's worth $15 more to have no DRM on the damn thing, but looking at this realistically I do think a lot of people are going to question paying $25 for his games from now on. When you make the same game much cheaper on a different platform it makes those paying 150% more feel like they're getting ripped off, right or wrong.
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