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Default Skyrim - Oblivion Comparison Video

June 21st, 2011, 14:04
A fan made video is available comparing some combat situations in Oblivion and Skyrim. So go ahead and spot the differences.
Thanks CountChocula.
More information.
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June 21st, 2011, 14:04
The extract I underlined in one other post.

I play archer and I do not see an improvement in Skyrim current AI in the situation displayed in the video.

One shot kill bow can be modded in Oblivion. It will be harder to mod a critical alert level for NPCs in Skyrim.

Good to introduce a " it must be some rats around" level of awareness but when a NPC sees another NPC sharp shot right before its eyes, the "it must be some rats" kind of intuition is too light.
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June 21st, 2011, 14:57
I hope that gets changed before the game gets released, CA. I'd like to see NPC's running for cover if a friend takes an arrow. Standing around waiting to be shafted, is not a logical response

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June 21st, 2011, 15:04
Well archery seems a total failure. So does AI detection.

When I was a child, my speech, feelings, and thinking were all those of a child. Now that I'm a man, I have no more use for childish ways.
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June 21st, 2011, 15:09
Are we overreacting a bit?

The guy became careful because something happened to his friend, which didn't even happen in Oblivion half the time.

Having the AI discern the type of attack and reacting appropriately is a bit much to expect, though it would be nice.

As long as there's a reaction that makes them cautious - and likely makes them take action under normal circumstances - I think it's fine.
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June 21st, 2011, 15:14
The combat isn't really what bored me stiff in Oblivion. I would love to see a Quest & Dialogue comparison video…
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June 21st, 2011, 15:16
I'd like to see a detailed report on character mechanics, and a few examples of the puzzles they're supposed to be making.
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June 21st, 2011, 15:46
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
I hope that gets changed before the game gets released, CA. I'd like to see NPC's running for cover if a friend takes an arrow. Standing around waiting to be shafted, is not a logical response
Unless they can get AI to recognize the direction of the arrow what seems like running away might actually be running towards the assaillant. For cover the same thing applies, if one chooses the wrong side of the rock to hide against you have actually exposed yourself instead of being in cover.

They can choose to use all-knowing NPC's but in that case what's the point of sneaking (or sneaking as a progressible skill) if they always immediately know where you are.

As I see it, the NPC reacts realisticly, he knows his friend is shot, but isn't a 100% sure where exactly the arrow is comming from and thus doesn't know where to run to or what cover to use. He could be looking around a bit more though.

If NPC AI could be made more realistic they could have programmed it that IF the NPC saw from which direction the arrow hit his friend he could react towards/away from that area.

But assuming NPC's aren't all-knowing, how can an NPC know he is only attacked by only one assaillant?
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June 21st, 2011, 16:01
In FO3, shooting an NPC from cover (undetected) or shooting NPC's ally would usually result in the NPC going on alert, drawing his weapon, and beginning to search the area, iirc. I would expect similar behavior in Skyrim.
I think silent one hit kills also left the enemie NPCs oblivious, but that would be easy to fix - there was a mod to change that for FO3.
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June 21st, 2011, 17:56
Originally Posted by bloodlover View Post
Well archery seems a total failure. So does AI detection.
Isn't that always the case with TES games? The former will likely get fixed by mods. The latter you'll just have to live with.

Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
The combat isn't really what bored me stiff in Oblivion. I would love to see a Quest & Dialogue comparison video…
Bethesda aren't going to show you that because then it would reveal there was no real substance behind the pretty facade. Either that or they'd just mock up some fako trailer that is absolutely nothing like the real game like this old one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjbx6-KQoRg
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June 21st, 2011, 18:35
Frankly, this looks like the same combat with more fluid and varied animations. I really didn't have that much of a problem with Oblivion's combat, and generally thought it was OK.

The sniping situation is stupid and seems to me (admittedly I know nothing of programming) it could be fixed easily. If an NPC is within X distance of another NPC who gets injured, then put both NPCs into hostile search mode, or have them run off to find a door or shelter.

But I don't see it as that big a deal.
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June 21st, 2011, 19:01
Well I'd like to see more RPG gameplay improvements. Besides an attempt to fix the broken character development mechanics, and two-handed offensive options, all I've seen is simplifications and pretty animations/graphics.
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June 21st, 2011, 19:18
Meh, all of the complaints above don't concern me. Its just a game and there will always be small anomalies that will annoy someone, and the AI issues are like this in all games. Our technology or its the devs, or the coding in general just hasn't advanced enough to make it realistic as many would like, but then would it be a fun game if it were!?

Anyway, all I care about is that its another great Elder Scrolls game to play. I've run around and explored all the previous entries extensively and I need a new world now…erm province!
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June 21st, 2011, 19:36
I'm with you there, Khalus! While I can see the flaws in Bethesda games, they're still my favorite developer; at least of those still in business. New World Computing would still rank 1st if they weren't defunct. I'd love to see better AI and even a little bit better dialogue, but neither of those things matter a whole lot to me compared to the free-roaming exploration that Bethesda just nails. I'm fighting my urge to load up a Bethesda game, because I want the experience to be fresh for Skyrim.

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June 21st, 2011, 19:48
Well, to say something positive, the fluidity of Skyrim is much better than Oblivion. I never play an archer type so personally I don't care if the AI is good or bad in that department.

If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?
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June 21st, 2011, 21:57
I wish the enemies in this game would have the AI of the ones from the first FEAR game. That was imo a great example of well designed enemies. Whenever one would get shot, the others would ask for reinforcements, take cover, fire shots to cover teammates etc

When I was a child, my speech, feelings, and thinking were all those of a child. Now that I'm a man, I have no more use for childish ways.
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June 22nd, 2011, 02:03
Lets face it 10% of the people that play games care about games the other 90% care about having the newest game to have their friends come over. 10% of gamers now of days have an IQ higher than that of a gnat…so games are not like they use to be….and that is the world we live in
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June 22nd, 2011, 08:18
They should just make Skyrim an Oblivion expansion pack and keep all the community content. Sky really doesn't look that great. From those videos I think I'd rather play the Thief games again. :/

Dark Messiah of Might and Magic still has the best fps camera melee combat. Wheres Arx Fatalis 2?!
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June 22nd, 2011, 08:58
Originally Posted by JuliusMagnus View Post
As I see it, the NPC reacts realisticly, he knows his friend is shot, but isn't a 100% sure where exactly the arrow is comming from and thus doesn't know where to run to or what cover to use. He could be looking around a bit more though.

If NPC AI could be made more realistic they could have programmed it that IF the NPC saw from which direction the arrow hit his friend he could react towards/away from that area.

But assuming NPC's aren't all-knowing, how can an NPC know he is only attacked by only one assaillant?
Realer than real life.

Here are better arguments for hiding the weakness of the situation:
-the NPC is fear frozen, he cant think straight and is stuck on his spot.
-PC uses a special ability that allows PC to beat the NPCs 'reaction time.
-NPC is a rookie who is not yet trained enough.

This said for the direction of shot:
The scene is lit. Bows have stoppage power (well shown in this vid) Arrows are arrows(sticks with head and end)
Camping still in the middle of highly lit terrain is the worst option whether you are assaulted by one or many archers.
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June 22nd, 2011, 09:02
Originally Posted by Khalus View Post
Meh, all of the complaints above don't concern me. Its just a game and there will always be small anomalies that will annoy someone, and the AI issues are like this in all games. Our technology or its the devs, or the coding in general just hasn't advanced enough to make it realistic as many would like, but then would it be a fun game if it were!?
That would be no issue if this game was a RPG. RPGs can not rival with combat dedicated games in their representation as budgets are limited.

But Skyrim is a heavy combat oriented game, where playing like a monk means fighting bare handed.

Not so small anomalies for a combat game.

One could say that not many will play archer so who cares? Better than depicting annoying flaws for a combat game as small anomalies.
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