|
Your donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General MMORPG » Issues with modern MMOs

Default Issues with modern MMOs

July 18th, 2011, 06:07
I played wow for a while because a friend almost begged me :-) and I couldn't immerse myself into, because everyone just completed quest as fast as possible, not reading any text (not that most quest texts are worth reading…), … well I think most of you already know that.
Oh I know all about that type. The power gamers. It was very strange to see them in City of Heroes back when there was NO end game content to speak of. Once you hit 50, that character was done. You could keep playing to get more inf (read: money) but, at the time, there was nothing to buy. Yet people kept diving into whatever quest line they thought gave the most xp per minute and picking the flavor-of-the-month powersets. Why? I have no idea. I guess it was handy for PvP but PvP was never very popular in that game.

However, just because most people are power gamers it doesn't mean all people are power gamers. It didn't take long to find folks who were also into some light roleplaying and who liked reading the mission text. Once you find them (preferably folks in similar timzones), who cares what the rest of the players are doing?
Zloth is offline

Zloth

Zloth's Avatar
I smell a… wumpus!?

#21

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 2,967

Default 

July 18th, 2011, 07:30
Remember to create your characters on the KHYBER server where our Guild is located. Once you have finished the tutorial area which should get you up to level 3, at least (depends how high you want to complete each quest ie at Elite level but that's not necessary or even recommended) then PM one of us with your toons name and we'll send you a guild invite through the game's mailbox system. We also are available for help and guidance; someone is always online if you know where to look. (Hint- we all use Skype)

If God said it, then that settles it!!

Editor@RPGWatch
Corwin is offline

Corwin

Corwin's Avatar
On The Razorblade of Life
RPGWatch Team

#22

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,680
Send a message via Skype™ to Corwin

Default 

July 18th, 2011, 22:22
this tutorial takes forever, I'm still level 1 at rank 4
Lachrimae is offline

Lachrimae

Lachrimae's Avatar
Mistress of the night

#23

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7

Default 

July 18th, 2011, 22:56
It will accelerate for you some when you start working the outdoor section of Khorthos.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
Dallas Cowboys: Division Champs! / / Detroit Red Wings: Another rollercoaster season?
dteowner is offline

dteowner

dteowner's Avatar
Shoegazer

#24

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 11,390

Default 

July 19th, 2011, 00:09
The problem with modern MMOs - is that they're not evolving. People think they can get the same feeling as they did when they first started playing games in the genre, but they don't realise that it wasn't the actual game they were enjoying - it was the discovery of a new genre.

The genre has stagnated and it looks like it will be quite a while before we see true evolution here. Maybe ArcheAge will pull it off, but I kinda doubt it.
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#25

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 15,258

Default 

July 19th, 2011, 11:12
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
At least give DDO a try!! It is FREE after all, so what do you have to lose except a little of your time?
Time is the most valuable thing we have :-) I liked it better when you guys were still playing NWN2.

Actually, I would give it go if not for my laptop (my last gaming worthy, well sort of, pc) being flaky. It was broken = blank screen, works again now but temperatures are 60-70 degrees just by surfing in windows a bit (idling = 60 degrees ). I'm a bit afraid of stressing it with a full game.

The problem with modern MMOs - is that they're not evolving.
Sure, lets hope they evolve in the right direction then… but considering the masses, it will not be in a direction we want I guess.
ilm is online now

ilm

Sentinel

#26

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 394

Default 

July 19th, 2011, 13:22
When you get to my age, time is very valuable, but DDO has fewer hassles than NWN did and we played that for years!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

Editor@RPGWatch
Corwin is offline

Corwin

Corwin's Avatar
On The Razorblade of Life
RPGWatch Team

#27

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,680
Send a message via Skype™ to Corwin

Default 

July 19th, 2011, 13:23
My time is too valuable for DDO
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#28

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 15,258

Default 

July 19th, 2011, 13:45
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
My time is too valuable for DDO
Yes, indeed. You better spend it making your own online MMORPG, completely from scratch
ilm is online now

ilm

Sentinel

#29

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 394

Default 

July 19th, 2011, 15:06
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
The problem with modern MMOs - is that they're not evolving. People think they can get the same feeling as they did when they first started playing games in the genre, but they don't realise that it wasn't the actual game they were enjoying - it was the discovery of a new genre.

Not really. Recently EQ1 created a time-locked progression server that started close to how EQ1 started back in 1999, and I loved every second of it! The feeling was the same I remember from back then. MMOs have evolved in the wrong direction (the WoW quest-o-matic direction) in my opinion.
wolfing is offline

wolfing

wolfing's Avatar
Dalek SasqWatch

#30

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Tardis
Posts: 3,383

Default 

July 19th, 2011, 15:13
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post

Not really. Recently EQ1 created a time-locked progression server that started close to how EQ1 started back in 1999, and I loved every second of it! The feeling was the same I remember from back then. MMOs have evolved in the wrong direction (the WoW quest-o-matic direction) in my opinion.
You don't really represent the norm in that way, though. There will always be people who can't "let go" of that first game - and who want to play the exact same thing above anything else. I understand that, but I like to claim that VERY few people actually want to stay with a stagnated design indefinitely.

In any case, that's what I think. Which is why people who got started on WoW can't really get the same level of satisfaction from anything else. Because again, the genre is not evolving.

Are you still playing it?
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#31

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 15,258

Default 

July 20th, 2011, 01:39
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
My time is too valuable for DDO
Have you played DDO with a group of friends? I'm assuming the negative.

If God said it, then that settles it!!

Editor@RPGWatch
Corwin is offline

Corwin

Corwin's Avatar
On The Razorblade of Life
RPGWatch Team

#32

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,680
Send a message via Skype™ to Corwin

Default 

July 20th, 2011, 09:42
Seems I accidentally missed a lot of responses in here so I’ll try to comment on a few things that came up.

I don't mind this so much. I dislike how CRPGs always make you the super secret special amnesiac chosen one who becomes master of everything and changes the world.
I wasn’t going for the lone-hero-saves-world RPG trope so much as for the feeling that my actions, broadly speaking, matter. That might happen entirely within a small subsystem of the game. For example, one small thing that blew my mind at the time was when guards in Gothic 1 started to get out of your way once you ran around with late-game armor and sword.

I liked how Ultima Online let you make a living as a tailor or baker. Some of the professions like smith were even quite lucrative.
Actually, the thing I liked most about EQ2 was its crafting system because it made you watch and react to things that were happing while you were crafting. Compare that to LOTRO or WoW where you queue up your stuff and go grab a coffee. That however is more of a gameplay thing, which brings me to:

5) Wussy death penalties.
(…)
6) Tedium is NOT an acceptable challenge
Both good points. I would agree that there seems to be a tendency to make games more accessible by making them easier. That wouldn’t have to be a complaint in itself. I don’t want to go back to the times were games would kill you off one the slightest mistakes and make you lose lots of your progress. However, without challenge things start getting stale very soon and in MMOs most of that challenge is replaced with the kill-large-number-n-type quests you mentioned. It also goes back to my earlier point of actions having consequences: if even your death seems an insignificant event, what else is there to fear? I didn’t play earlier MMOs but I do recall EQ2 having at least enough of an XP malus that it still hurt to die.

I just miss decent TMORPG's, tiny multiplayer online RPG's (also known as c-op) , that you can play with a small amount of like-minded people.
I’m starting to think this might be the only way out for the sort of gameplay I have in mind. The WoW-type MMO, for me, seems broken beyond repair. Worst of all, they are much too costly to take chances with which is probably why we see so little innovation.
sphire is offline

sphire

Traveler

#33

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3

Default 

July 20th, 2011, 11:00
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Have you played DDO with a group of friends? I'm assuming the negative.
Oh, but I have

It's the only way to enjoy such a game for me.

Unfortunately, I got tired of the excessive repetition - and the total and complete lack of a "world" to exist in. I don't enjoy heavily instanced games without ways to stand out or play a role. It feels like a giant systemic hamster wheel, and the cash shop concept doesn't help matters.

It's an ideal game for the "dungeon" experience - but I personally need more to invest the kind of time they expect you to invest to progress.
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#34

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 15,258

Default 

July 20th, 2011, 23:56
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Unfortunately, I got tired of the excessive repetition - and the total and complete lack of a "world" to exist in. I don't enjoy heavily instanced games without ways to stand out or play a role. It feels like a giant systemic hamster wheel, and the cash shop concept doesn't help matters.
While we have different taste when it comes to the actual gameplay, I also agree that most mmos seems to completely ignore world immersion. Rift is an exception but it's really tiny and resorted to artificial restrictions like invisible walls. Recent trends like cross-realm instancing totally ruins immersion for me. People can't even bother to travel to dungeons anymore. I also think phasing is a mistake. Even the once big and immersive world of Warcraft has been reduced naught with its web of flightpaths (now 3-4 per zone) and blindly fast flying mounts. So I believe a big world only the first step for world immersion, and things like travel and realm also play an important part, and maybe put a little more danger into the world also. Developers seems really scared of challenging gamers now. Archeage that you mention seems to have a lot of the properties I look for but the setting might not appeal to me.

Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Have you played DDO with a group of friends? I'm assuming the negative.
A very important point! A lot of games can become quite fun with some company. It can be difficult though to find a game that will interest all, especially when you have previous experience with mmos. They color your preferences, like with my friends its very difficult to find a match. Some love raiding. Some hate raiding. Some will only do small dungeons. Some spend most time on tradeskills. Some spend most time on PvP.
Last edited by hishadow; July 21st, 2011 at 09:32.
hishadow is offline

hishadow

Level N+1

#35

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southern parts of Norway
Posts: 1,142

Default 

July 21st, 2011, 09:27
Originally Posted by ilm View Post
I just miss decent TMORPG's, tiny multiplayer online RPG's (also known as c-op) , that you can play with a small amount of like-minded people.
Weird comment. It goes against basic observation. I expected from online playing with co-op being a feature that I thought would grow more and more important.

It has not happened as co-op mechanics take implementation. As online games lack deep coop mechanics, it is not possible to join a game and play cooperatively without adopting some foreign, not ingame built rules.

This has given birth to congregations of players like clans or guilds. And they are many.

I had expected otherwise from online gaming, that games would provide incentives for cooperation, meaning one could join a game without having acquaintances online and experiment basic cooperation.

Developpers did not bother implementing deep coop mechanics and the burden of the coop mechanics has been shifted on voluntary congregation of players known as clans or guilds.

So the current configuration of things should highly be favourable for people like you who want to play games with like minded people as games currently mostly provide coop through playing with like minded people congregations aka clans or guilds. Plenty of choices for you.
ChienAboyeur is offline

ChienAboyeur

SasqWatch

#36

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,273

Default 

July 22nd, 2011, 10:33
Well as you took like-minded people as "fellow RPG'ers" I think I should have written friends instead, i.e., like-minded in other things as RPG as well Moreover, I find it really hard to call online people 'friends', no matter how long I play with them. When meeting for a raid they are way more unreliable.

Also you're reasoning about deep co-op is exactly why I don't like it, I like the game to provide a deep-coop experience, i.e., from start to end everyone (~class) is invaluable to the group.
ilm is online now

ilm

Sentinel

#37

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 394

Default 

July 23rd, 2011, 11:07
My 'reasoning' about deep co-op experience is simply the observation that co-op experience comes from either implemented mechanics internal to the game (id est you do not need to know people before playing the game to enjoy a co-op experience) or from non implemented mechanics external to the game with people agreeing on playing the game a certain way. For this one to work, you definitively need to play with like minded people, people who are in the same mind as you on the way the game should be played.

MMOs have taken the second route with co-op play being left mostly in the hands of like minded players as co-op internal mechanics are shallow.

The current environment is highly favourable to people who want to play co-op through likemindedness.

Now, you might mean that your friends are not like minded when it comes on the way the game should be played and therefore co-op is hard.

The main possibility as the environment is extremelly favourable to likeminded based coop style.
ChienAboyeur is offline

ChienAboyeur

SasqWatch

#38

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,273

Default 

September 4th, 2011, 03:11
I don't know if you tried out Runescape but I think it is other type and look distinctive from others, quests definitely not are typical kill x monsters or get x items from monsters but sandbox style and quests reveals part of lore or maybe a twist . Combat is fluid with risk and reward witch many mmos took away and no MMO trinity of tank/healer/DPSer.
Music for me was memorable in comparability to others, although the game is not that great it used to be you can give it a try as is free in witch you can spend alot of fun time untill you decide to upgrade your account.Resuming if you want to do things with your own hands starting from burning the bread to slaying the most fearsome abominations, give it a try as it is free.
Last edited by Igor; September 4th, 2011 at 16:32.
Igor is offline

Igor

Igor's Avatar
Watchdog

#39

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 168

Default 

September 4th, 2011, 16:05
Originally Posted by Motoki View Post
I don't mind this so much. I dislike how CRPGs always make you the super secret special amnesiac chosen one who becomes master of everything and changes the world. I liked how Ultima Online let you make a living as a tailor or baker. Some of the professions like smith were even quite lucrative.
I think I read in the GC interview or speech that he would like to do that again - allow low-level characters to actually have "a role".

Here in German role-playing (pen& paper) the term of "Bauer-Gaming" ("Farmer-Gaming" - as the opposite to "Power-Gaming") has been created to describe this.

Originally Posted by Zloth View Post
For sure, but I don't think it's for the reason you state. I'm sick to death of the MMO trinity of tank/healer/DPSer. Not only is it tired, it's downright stupid.
The worst thing was for me when a few people asked in the Drakensang forums ( ! ) which character they should use as a tank, as a "damage dealer", as a healer …

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
Last edited by Alrik Fassbauer; September 4th, 2011 at 16:25.
Alrik Fassbauer is offline

Alrik Fassbauer

Alrik Fassbauer's Avatar
TL;DR

#40

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Old Europe
Posts: 16,067
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General MMORPG » Issues with modern MMOs
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:19.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch