|
Your continuous donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » RPG Pillars: 20 Defining Games @ GamePro

Default RPG Pillars: 20 Defining Games @ GamePro

July 26th, 2011, 00:14
Yes, list time. GamePro has a feature titled RPG Pillars: 20 Games That Defined Role-Playing Games. It stretches across all platforms and both western and jRPG styles, ranging from the likes of Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord to Final Fantasy VII to WoW. There are some obvious exclusions for me, but then, I wouldn't know a good jRPG if I fell over it.
More information.
Dhruin is offline

Dhruin

Dhruin's Avatar
Watcher
Super Moderator
RPGWatch Team

#1

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 11,964

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 00:14
I can't abide a list that long without PS:T somewhere on it.
Santos is offline

Santos

Ass-hat

#2

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NH
Posts: 565

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 01:04
Originally Posted by Santos View Post
I can't abide a list that long without PS:T somewhere on it.
PS:T was a niche game, though. As can be inferenced from the inclusion of WoW, it's not necessarily a list of good games, but moreso the games responsible for subsequent future innovation and emulation.

I took a look at the list and I have to say that it's very inconsistent. I hardly think KotOR is a 'pillar' of RPG's, and inclusion of Ultima Online without mention of Everquest is foolish.

No Neverwinter Nights either. That's just halfassed all-around. I don't usually bother reading these uninformed "lists" from people who think it fun to blurt out the first games to pop into their head without doing any research. It tends to be a waste of time, and, behold, it was!
Drithius is offline

Drithius

Drithius's Avatar
Misbegotten Alien

#3

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 2,342

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 01:36
Well I would question to what extent NWN really shaped and inspired future games, so I have no problem with it being left off that left. You do make a good point about Everquest though, that was certainly extremely influential.

Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
PS:T was a niche game, though. As can be inferenced from the inclusion of WoW, it's not necessarily a list of good games, but moreso the games responsible for subsequent future innovation and emulation.

I took a look at the list and I have to say that it's very inconsistent. I hardly think KotOR is a 'pillar' of RPG's, and inclusion of Ultima Online without mention of Everquest is foolish.

No Neverwinter Nights either. That's just halfassed all-around. I don't usually bother reading these uninformed "lists" from people who think it fun to blurt out the first games to pop into their head without doing any research. It tends to be a waste of time, and, behold, it was!
fadedc is offline

fadedc

Keeper of the Watch

#4

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,008

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 01:56
They forgot Might & Magic without which other games on their list probably either wouldn't exist or would be far different.
guenthar is online now

guenthar

SasqWatch

#5

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,541
Send a message via Skype™ to guenthar

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 02:17
The Baldurs Gate series is widely credited with "saving" RPG as a genre. I didn't even like those games, but that has to be considered a glaring omission.

I also have heartburn with the omission of Might and Magic, but I'm hard pressed to name anything "defining" about them. They were the best of the best, but what did they really introduce to the genre?

The System Shock series probably deserves consideration, but I could see it as an "honorable mention" kinda thing.

PS:T should be in there, no questions asked.

I could see NWN1 being included as the first game designed around user-made content. Mods have been around for a long time, but NWN1 made them easy to produce and easy to use, all while giving tremendous support to the modding community.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
Dallas Cowboys: *sigh* / / Detroit Red Wings: Took injuries to see them, but how about them youngsters!
dteowner is offline

dteowner

dteowner's Avatar
Shoegazer

#6

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 11,256

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 02:45
I have a problem with Phantasy Star 2 being on the list and not the first one, which was far superior. A good point to argue on a pc rpg forum I'm sure.
Scrav is offline

Scrav

Scrav's Avatar
Watchdog

#7

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 244

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 03:08
Originally Posted by Scrav View Post
I have a problem with Phantasy Star 2 being on the list and not the first one, which was far superior. A good point to argue on a pc rpg forum I'm sure.
I hated those dungeons in Phantasy Star, had to map them myself on paper was not fun.

I am free because I choose to be so-me
Kefka is offline

Kefka

Kefka's Avatar
Watcher

#8

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 99

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 04:31
What? No Gothic? Pfft.
Zephyr is offline

Zephyr

Watchdog

#9

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 240

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 05:51
What is more interesting to an old-timer like me is they assume the world started in 1980. Some of the text based games were certainly RPG, so maybe Zork 1? Lots of what has come after in terms of dialogue options, multiple solutions to quests etc was shown there (not as strongly in Adventure hence my choice of Zork)
Hurls is offline

Hurls

Hurls's Avatar
Non-twitch gamer
RPGWatch Donor

#10

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 262

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 07:55
Originally Posted by Kefka View Post
I hated those dungeons in Phantasy Star, had to map them myself on paper was not fun.


Mapping dungeons on graph paper is a rite of passage.
Scrav is offline

Scrav

Scrav's Avatar
Watchdog

#11

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 244

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 08:14
lol at the user comment that pretty much said that WoW took the MMO genre back 5 years by introducing grind into the MMO genre
Eisberg is offline

Eisberg

Eisberg's Avatar
Watchdog

#12

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 129

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 08:39
A similar list in 10 to 15 years will be great fun, encompassing so many games.

In the end, people are going to discover that there is only one genre: RPG. All the other genres only delivered RPGs in the making.
ChienAboyeur is offline

ChienAboyeur

SasqWatch

#13

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,001

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 08:57
Originally Posted by guenthar View Post
They forgot Might & Magic without which other games on their list probably either wouldn't exist or would be far different.
+1
You *always* see Wizardry on these types of lists, but they seem to forget about Might & Magic for some reason. Although I would never dismiss the importance of the Wizardry games, M&M was actually the superior series imo.


Originally Posted by Scrav View Post
I have a problem with Phantasy Star 2 being on the list and not the first one, which was far superior.
I was a big fan of the original series (I-IV), and I agree that PS1 was easily the best one.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch

#14

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 17,441

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 09:05
This list is fairly good. PS:T doesnt belong there. But if you were to say make a list of "games ahead of their time" it surely would be in it.
Damian Mahadevan is offline

Damian Mahadevan

Keeper of the Watch

#15

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,201

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 09:06
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
+1
You *always* see Wizardry on these types of lists, but they seem to forget about Might & Magic for some reason. Although I would never dismiss the importance of the Wizardry games, M&M was actually the superior series imo.
I am curious, why is M&M better than Wizardry?
Damian Mahadevan is offline

Damian Mahadevan

Keeper of the Watch

#16

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,201

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 09:19
Originally Posted by Damian Mahadevan View Post
I am curious, why is M&M better than Wizardry?
Well for me the main reason would be because of their openess. Even the earlier M&M games had huge sprawling worlds with multiple dungeons to explore. The Wizardry games were really nothing but dungeon crawls (albeit very good ones), that, until the sixth installment, didn't even feature an overworld.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch

#17

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 17,441

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 10:31
I really don't like the fact that mainstream websites and magazines mix JRPG and CRPG together when doing lists about role playing games. Although there are similarities, but they are two different genres with different audiences. ( Though there are many people who like the games in both genre. No doubt about that. ) There are some people who are a CRPG nut, but can't stand a J even for a minute and vice versa.
I think it's like comparing arcade racers like Burnout Paradise to simulators like GTR 2. You drive a car in both of them, but the approach on this matter is so different that it doesn't look like the same thing anymore.
Frozen Fireball is offline

Frozen Fireball

Frozen Fireball's Avatar
Trying to unfreeze

#18

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Iran
Posts: 196

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 11:32
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post

I also have heartburn with the omission of Might and Magic, but I'm hard pressed to name anything "defining" about them. They were the best of the best, but what did they really introduce to the genre?
I think New World Computing brought much more accessibility to the cRPG genre, even if much of the design and gameplay style for the games were somewhat derivative and inspired by the Wizardries and Bard's Tale. But compared to those games, relatively speaking, I think M&M were just that little bit "friendlier" and easier to play. There was also the wacky sense of humour found throughout their worlds, the ponderous (for the time) open worlds (as JDR touched on) with events occuring on specifc days in game time and of course the additional unique sci/fi touches.

World of Xeen for example is one of the most accessible cRPGs of its type. Perhaps not so much for modern players today, but I had friends who normally only played shooters and strategy games, turn to role-playing games after experiencing the addictive ease of play that World of Xeen offers.

Diddledy high,
Diddledy low,
Come brave blood sheep,
You've a goodly way to go.
- Brilhasti Ap Tarj
Pessimeister is offline

Pessimeister

Pessimeister's Avatar
Living Backwards

#19

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 888

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 12:37
When it comes to defining games, I'd rather take Ultima IV than Ultima I. U1 was a nice RPG but not really so groundbreaking and unique. But UIV, Quest of th Avatar introduced the moral dilemma and ethical questions beyond the "kill the evil boss" idea. Or Ultima VII with it's unprecedented immersity and detail of world realism.
elikal is offline

elikal

elikal's Avatar
Sentinel

#20

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 489
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » RPG Pillars: 20 Defining Games @ GamePro
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:06.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch