|
Your continuous donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Risen 2 - Using Steamworks

Default Risen 2 - Using Steamworks

July 26th, 2011, 02:28
Gorath: How can you say that a company would lose money at all if the games didn't have DRM? Almost all games are protected so there isn't enough unprotected games available to measure a trend of whether or not DRM is actually useful. Every time someone defends DRM because they would "lose" money they are just spreading propaganda.

PS. Just having a couple of games released without DRM and having horrible sales is not enough evidence since that happens all of the time with DRM protected games.

PPS. It looks like another game that I will be downloading a crack for which should be out the day of release up to a couple of days after.
guenthar is offline

guenthar

SasqWatch

#21

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,568
Send a message via Skype™ to guenthar

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 02:42
Originally Posted by guenthar View Post
PS. Just having a couple of games released without DRM and having horrible sales is not enough evidence since that happens all of the time with DRM protected games.
Of course it's evidence. If publishers like Topware and Ubi try it without CP or DRM and go away from it there must be a reason. They only care about sales numbers after all.

But let's skip this discussion. We have enough piracy threads.
Gorath is offline

Gorath

Gorath's Avatar
Prime Evil
RPGWatch Team

#22

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,852

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 02:44
While it's true that Steamworks will not prevent piracy after the game goes retail, it will prevent the game from being pirated before the release date. That's as effective as DRM can get nowadays for a single player game.

edit: Sorry, I was posting this while you were posting that. :/

Still, can't wait for this one
darkling is offline

darkling

Keeper of the Watch

#23

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 836

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 03:04
Originally Posted by Khalus View Post
Dunno why so many developers keep spending so much money on attempts at blocking their game from being pirated. There has never been any DRM that has stopped a game from being pirated, slowed down by a few weeks yes, but its eventually cracked and distributed shortly there after.

More or less DRM just makes it more difficult and annoying for the legit consumer to enjoy their new game than not.
Even those few weeks matter. Check out tweakguides.com guide to DRM and piracy its very enlightening. I now support DRM as long as it now overly intrusive and steam is not.

@guenthar, you should also check out the article, lack of DRM hurts sales. Even if it only last for a few weeks that can make a big difference.

I am free because I choose to be so-me
Kefka is offline

Kefka

Kefka's Avatar
Watcher

#24

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 99

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 04:01
Yup, this changes nothing for me, I'll still be buying it.

On another note, all non Steamwork games that you get from Steam will work without steam running, and you can even move the game directory out of Steam folder to another drive or folder. To play non Steamworks games without Steam running, is just to use the game executable in the game directory, and the game will run, and Steam will not load up if it already is not. This will work with all Non Steam Works game, which is about 65-70% of the games on Steam. So when a company uses a 3rd party DRM, it is because they are not using Steam as a DRM and Steam is not another layer of DRM to that game.
Eisberg is offline

Eisberg

Eisberg's Avatar
Watchdog

#25

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 129

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 04:55
Originally Posted by wiretripped View Post
I refuse to use Steam. Sorry. No Risen 2 for me then, I guess?
Yeah, cause TAGES was SO much better.

Originally Posted by Gokyabgu View Post
Steam protection, is it any good? Show me one game protected with steam that couldn't be cracked at day one.
Actually it is.
With Steamworks games are cracked at day one at best. With many other systems they are cracked two weeks earlier.
In fact, so far there's no record of a single Steamworks-based game breaking the day one release date.
I hope there's no need for me to explain you why this is a relevant difference for publishers.
Last edited by Tuco; July 26th, 2011 at 05:17.
Tuco is offline

Tuco

Tuco's Avatar
Watchdog

#26

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 173

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 05:25
This probably doesn't impact me to much. I sort of dislike being forced to use a platform like steam if I bought a CD or bought from Impulse or D2D but I would likely buy from Steam anyway. I have stopped buying physical media completely especially since my DVD laser died and I have no intent of buying another. Steam is also light-years better than GfW and that crap from EA.

The only thing that drives me nuts about steam is that I cannot pick the install location. Steam is currently on an older smaller drive and I dont want to have to move multiGB games around especially just after an install because for the sake of it. I know how to use junctions and use them liberally to keep steam happy but would rather not have to.
figment is offline

figment

figment's Avatar
Sentinel
RPGWatch Donor

#27

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 522

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 05:37
Originally Posted by figment View Post
The only thing that drives me nuts about steam is that I cannot pick the install location. Steam is currently on an older smaller drive and I dont want to have to move multiGB games around especially just after an install because for the sake of it. I know how to use junctions and use them liberally to keep steam happy but would rather not have to.
If your games are non steamworks games, then you can move them out of the Steam folder and put them anywhere you want. Just make sure you use the executable from the games directory. However this will not work with Risen 2, since it is a Steamworks game.
Eisberg is offline

Eisberg

Eisberg's Avatar
Watchdog

#28

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 129

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 05:53
Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
Yeah, cause TAGES was SO much better.


Actually it is.
With Steamworks games are cracked at day one at best. With many other systems they are cracked two weeks earlier.
In fact, so far there's no record of a single Steamworks-based game breaking the day one release date.
I hope there's no need for me to explain you why this is a relevant difference for publishers.
Actually, you would need to explain more why there being no day 1 crack makes a huge difference to publishers. Far to many people seem to think that publishers are trying to stop piracy completely with the DRM, when in fact they already know their games will be cracked, it is all about holding them of for as long as possible, and to stop the casual piracy of giving your friends the game and all playing from the same DvD install.
Eisberg is offline

Eisberg

Eisberg's Avatar
Watchdog

#29

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 129

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 06:15
Originally Posted by Eisberg View Post
If your games are non steamworks games, then you can move them out of the Steam folder and put them anywhere you want. Just make sure you use the executable from the games directory. However this will not work with Risen 2, since it is a Steamworks game.
Quite aware of this. You can use junctions [microsoft.com] to create symbolic links in the steamapps\common folder to the other drive. Even better if you know the folder name ahead of time you can frequently just preemptively create the junction for the install. Worked for me when I needed it but still pain in the ass when it should just let me pick the install folder during initial setup.
figment is offline

figment

figment's Avatar
Sentinel
RPGWatch Donor

#30

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 522

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 06:18
First bit @eisberg, of course
1) Any activation system stops pre day 1 piracy, Tages/ SecuROM included
2) Most games sold on Steam need it to be running to function. Some don't, to be sure, but most do.

Originally Posted by coaster View Post
Unless Steam do something monumentally stupid to alienate customers, I can't see it happening. MS has demonstrated numerous times that they have little love for, or understanding of the needs of, PC gamers.
They can do it very easily- just make sure that 360/ NextBox games run under win8 (very, very easy if you make the nextbox a closed box PC running a win8 variant). Eliminate the need for a PC SKU and you eliminate Steam at a stroke.
Zygo is offline

Zygo

Watchdog

#31

Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 188

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 06:54
Originally Posted by Zygo View Post
First bit @eisberg, of course
1) Any activation system stops pre day 1 piracy, Tages/ SecuROM included
2) Most games sold on Steam need it to be running to function. Some don't, to be sure, but most do.



They can do it very easily- just make sure that 360/ NextBox games run under win8 (very, very easy if you make the nextbox a closed box PC running a win8 variant). Eliminate the need for a PC SKU and you eliminate Steam at a stroke.
Publishers would just make their Nextbox games available on Steam, so that idea wouldn't hurt Steam at all. But here is a problem with your idea, Consoles are a closed system with no hardware variance, but there are for PCs, the publishers would still need to make 2 different versions, one for the Nextbox and one that has been tested and debugged for many different systems.
Eisberg is offline

Eisberg

Eisberg's Avatar
Watchdog

#32

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 129

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 07:22
There is no empirical evidence to say DRM increases sales because you can't have it when there are only a handful of games that don't have DRM. Every single article, comment, ect. saying that DRM helps increase sales is fabricated since there is no evidence to back it up. There are many reasons for a game to fail and it is likely that piracy is very low on that list if it is at all.

PS. I have never bought a game that didn't have DRM (besides The Witcher 2) because either the game didn't appeal to me, I didn't know about it, or I didn't think it seemed very good.

PPS. On a related note I read an article about a study that was being paid for by a company about piracy. The company had the report shelved because it didn't get the results they wanted. The results were that pirates bought far more then non-pirates which pretty much disproved the claims that piracy hurts business.
guenthar is offline

guenthar

SasqWatch

#33

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,568
Send a message via Skype™ to guenthar

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 07:49
Originally Posted by guenthar View Post
There is no empirical evidence to say DRM increases sales because you can't have it when there are only a handful of games that don't have DRM. Every single article, comment, ect. saying that DRM helps increase sales is fabricated since there is no evidence to back it up. There are many reasons for a game to fail and it is likely that piracy is very low on that list if it is at all.

PS. I have never bought a game that didn't have DRM (besides The Witcher 2) because either the game didn't appeal to me, I didn't know about it, or I didn't think it seemed very good.

PPS. On a related note I read an article about a study that was being paid for by a company about piracy. The company had the report shelved because it didn't get the results they wanted. The results were that pirates bought far more then non-pirates which pretty much disproved the claims that piracy hurts business.
Yeah I am calling BS on everything you have said, even the "article" that you claim existed. Publishers would not spend so much money on something unless there was data to show that it increases revenue. Everyone on the internet goes by what other people say or their own experience, and I will tell you none of it is ever a representation of what really is happening. These publisher have data that you and I have never seen, and they know they are increasing their sales because of it. Let me tell you of my own experience, but I'm sure you have your own experience to counter it, but that only proves what I said a few sentences above. I have 8 friends who are right now all playing the same copy of The Witcher 2 GoG version, each of them put in $6.25 to buy the game, but every one of them have their very own copy of The Witcher 1 they bought on release day since there was no crack for it. Literally these guys determine if they are going to buy 1 game or 8 games if there is a crack for it on day 0 or not. If there is no crack prior to the game releasing, they each go out and buy it, otherwise they buy 1 game and each make a copy of it.
Eisberg is offline

Eisberg

Eisberg's Avatar
Watchdog

#34

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 129

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 08:34
I see nothing wrong with steam other than it being a minor annoyance. I don't necessarily like Steam, but it's probably the least aggravating DRM out there. As for the claims that Steam is part of an "evil monopoly," they do have competition in the digital distribution market, and unless there's something that I haven't heard about, they haven't exactly done anything to come across as "evil" in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Eisberg View Post
… I have 8 friends who are right now all playing the same copy of The Witcher 2 GoG version, each of them put in $6.25 to buy the game, but every one of them have their very own copy of The Witcher 1 they bought on release day since there was no crack for it. Literally these guys determine if they are going to buy 1 game or 8 games if there is a crack for it on day 0 or not. If there is no crack prior to the game releasing, they each go out and buy it, otherwise they buy 1 game and each make a copy of it.
That's pretty disturbing data, even if it's an extremely small sample. There are probably many more gamers who employ this exact method to essentially get games for free without actually pirating them or doing anything remotely illegal (unless there is a crack involved).

I also had to chuckle about the "study" that "proved" pirates pay for more games than legal customers - pretty big paradox there
Nerevarine is offline

Nerevarine

Nerevarine's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#35

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 839

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 08:38
Best news in ages, Steam rocks!
srabuseen is offline

srabuseen

Watcher

#36

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 84

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 08:54
The only thing I hate about steam is how slow it starts.
GhanBuriGhan is offline

GhanBuriGhan

GhanBuriGhan's Avatar
Wose extraordinaire

#37

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,486

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 09:04
I had some thoughts about getting this or not , i didn't like R1 but it had a great potential and i always wanted to play as a pirate in a RPG , i thank the developers for solving my delema .
Tragos is offline

Tragos

Tragos's Avatar
Otinanist

#38

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Athens (the original one)
Posts: 1,439

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 09:10
I have no problem with the Steam platform. Well, I do - but I can live with it. What I can't live with, is the Steam EU pricing. For some reason, they can't offer a "UK" alternative like other distributors. Not sure what the obstacle is, as I assume it's fully legal.

If I can buy Risen 2 somewhere else and then use Steam as the client - I can deal with it. Not happy about it, as I hate clunky software and things running in the background that I shouldn't be needing.

If I can only buy through Steam - then I'll have to pass on giving them my support.
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#39

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,812

Default 

July 26th, 2011, 09:37
I like the fact that we are so near they point were the selected method of copy protection will be advertised as a main feature of the game next to the amazing 3D graphics.

Thumbs down for steam - I don't want it, it won't influence my decision on whether I will buy the game or not, but it might lead me to Gokyabgu's option 3.

"I am not interested in good; I am interested in new, even if this includes the possibility of it's being evil"
(LaMonte Young, 1962)
holeraw is offline

holeraw

holeraw's Avatar
V.G.A.

#40

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 693
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Risen 2 - Using Steamworks
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:34.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch