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July 26th, 2011, 10:08
no steam for me either. Their price is retarted high.
To bad, but i cant support deepsilver this way.
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July 26th, 2011, 10:10
Originally Posted by Sin View Post
Option 2
Refuse to use Steam, put on sad face, get laughed at by Steam users, don't play Risen 2.
Steam users wouldn't know I wasn't going to play this game because I wouldn't tell them. That's the major flaw in your argueing.

Besides, who said I'd put on a sad face ? The opposite could be possible : I'd have more than enough free time instead to play my beloved adventure games …

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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July 26th, 2011, 10:19
Originally Posted by Gorath View Post
But the number of used resales on PC can now be predicted reliably - it will be exactly zero! That's more important than piracy according to several publisher/developer interviews over the last years.
Yes, that's an important one.

Which means to me that games will die out rather fast if they aren't no longer on the shelves - at least here, in Germany, where online buying still isn't as "big" as in other countries, I assume.
Well, apart from the younger generations, maybe.

This will also be a huge experiment : What will happen is there are no more used games available ? - This could very well mean that the "sociall challenged" people and younger people as well won't be able to buy games anymore.

And where would they direct their money & energy to, then ?

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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July 26th, 2011, 10:22
Originally Posted by guenthar View Post
There is no empirical evidence to say DRM increases sales because you can't have it when there are only a handful of games that don't have DRM.
Let me put it like this :

You argue so, because you have no access to data behind the curtain.
Of course, business organisations and companies won't release their data to a mere customer - at least I wouldn't expect them to.

You can ask Bitcom, for example.
Maybe they give you what *they* know.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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July 26th, 2011, 10:42
I was only introduced to Steam upon my purchase of New Vegas last year. Whilst the experience was mostly smooth and painless, I did have some minor problems logging in at one point when my internet speed had been capped. This was made slightly more irritating when I had a required update to download after finally connecting…

Other than that, I've only since purchased two more games that require Steam (Portal and Metro 2033) and haven't encountered any issues. Offline mode is easy and convenient to use.

As far as Risen 2 is concerned, it's a must purchase for me anyway…thus, Steamworks doesn't really change the nature of that purchase.

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July 26th, 2011, 11:51
Originally Posted by holeraw View Post
Thumbs down for steam - I don't want it, it won't influence my decision on whether I will buy the game or not, but it might lead me to Gokyabgu's option 3.
Similarly for me, using Steam doesn't mean I won't buy the game but it does reduce how much I'm willing to pay for it. I bought Risen within a week or so of it releasing, I'll be waiting a while for the sequel to drop to a price I'll buy at now.
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July 26th, 2011, 12:14
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
If I can buy Risen 2 somewhere else and then use Steam as the client - I can deal with it. Not happy about it, as I hate clunky software and things running in the background that I shouldn't be needing.
Actually that's one of the reasons why I love Steamworks-based games.
I can buy a very cheap serial key from some russian/chinese/thai online keystore and then activate it on Steam having a full functional copy.

Also, Steam isn't just a DRM, for every game with multiplayer in it (which isn't the case with Risen, but you get the idea) it's mostly a service. It actually adds value to the product, especially considering how poor are the alternatives for online infrastructures (GFWL, GameSpy? Jesus Christ…).
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July 26th, 2011, 12:33
Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
Actually that's one of the reasons why I love Steamworks-based games.
I can buy a very cheap serial key from some russian/chinese/thai online keystore and then activate it on Steam having a full functional copy.
You can't do that with all Steam titles. Some are exclusive to the Steam store.

Also, I prefer acquiring my keys through reputable stores - especially for a game like Risen 2. That's because I want to ensure the money ends up where they're meant to end up. Not that I can ever be sure - but still.

Also, Steam isn't just a DRM, for every game with multiplayer in it (which isn't the case with Risen, but you get the idea) it's mostly a service. It actually adds value to the product, especially considering how poor are the alternatives for online infrastructures (GFWL, GameSpy? Jesus Christ…).
I have no interest in any of the infrastructure Steam provides. I suppose if you value the service-part, it makes more sense to go for it as a platform.

But I have no illusions about Steam becoming a monopoly. That's probably pretty inevitable. Doesn't mean I'll stand in line to make it happen though.
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July 26th, 2011, 13:07
Yea, yea, will someone send a note to PB/Deep S. (S as silver and not a certain biological "product") to cut with the "important" news and release that game already?
I'm already on the edge with the waiting process.
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July 26th, 2011, 13:31
As long as I can buy the game form any store I want, I have no problem with steam being DRM.

News games when they get released in UK are bloody expensive on steam. Normally they are £10 more than say Play.com.
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July 26th, 2011, 13:51
I'm too tired to rehash my dislike of steam - suffice to say that I'm not thrilled to hear that they have also jumped on the Steam bandwagon. The reasons they cite would have been equally valid for Risen 1.
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July 26th, 2011, 13:53
… I hate this. I should reserve the right to sell my game if i dont like it. This copy protection stops that doesnt it?
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July 26th, 2011, 13:53
Originally Posted by Damian Mahadevan View Post
… I hate this. I should reserve the right to sell my game if i dont like it. This copy protection stops that doesnt it?
AFAIK, yes.
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July 26th, 2011, 14:01
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
You can't do that with all Steam titles. Some are exclusive to the Steam store..
Well, you can do that for all Steamworks titles, which is exactly what we were talking about in this news.
Except the ones who have no a retail version, of course. But that was pretty obvious.

Anyway, I want to remember to anyone whining about this that Risen 1 used motherfucking TAGES, which is a very annoying DRM.
Can't really see Steam like anything but an improvement.
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July 26th, 2011, 14:04
Well, I've already seen he first ebay auctions for selling game keys …
Maybe the secondary market will just change ?

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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July 26th, 2011, 14:07
Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
Well, you can do that for all Steamworks titles, which is exactly what we were talking about in this news.
Except the ones who have no a retail version, of course. But that was pretty obvious.
I'm talking about digital alternatives - not regular retail.

Not that I can be certain, but I've been told that there are games that are EXCLUSIVELY available on the Steam store as digital versions. I assume games like Left 4 Dead are among them.

Not that I expect Risen 2 to be such a game, but I don't actually know.

I don't buy regular retail, as I generally don't want to pay for shipping and I don't like to wait until it's available locally and THEN wait for shipping. I only do that as a last resort, and I shouldn't have to fiddle with physical media.

Anyway, I want to remember to anyone whining about this that Risen 1 used motherfucking TAGES, which is a very annoying DRM.
Can't really see Steam like anything but an improvement.
So, because Risen used a bad protection system - people can't complain about Steam because of pricing and another bad protection system, where they can't avoid a clunky piece of shit software AND the inability to sell the game?

I'm not sure I see the improvement here.
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July 26th, 2011, 14:16
Exactly what problems did TAGES cause? I'm just curious because I honestly don't recall any issues.
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July 26th, 2011, 14:19
For those saying after registration you do not need to connect to Steam again - that's not always true. If you do not go into offline mode before you shut down your machine, you have to conenct to the Steam server to go offline later (that has been my experience). I have been unable to play in "offline" mode because there were network issues that prevented me from conencting to the server to *go* offline. I find that unacceptable - especially once your game has been activated. As for why you would go online in the first place after registering - patches, obviously.

Ad for TAGES - never had a single issue, luckily. I always hear rumours of issues, but no one I know has ever had such issues either.
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July 26th, 2011, 14:41
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Exactly what problems did TAGES cause? I'm just curious because I honestly don't recall any issues.
It could not be removed and even if you found a way to remove it chances are that you could also remove parts of your windows/system folder .
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July 26th, 2011, 14:45
Originally Posted by Melvil View Post
Not sure why people hate steam, it's not very intrusive or system intensive at all. If it's a question of trust, well, that ship has already sailed unfortunately.
I guess it is a question of trust. I like to be in a control. Using Steam, I am not.
*I* want to decide what runs and when, *I* want to decide what I want updated or not, *I* want to decide where something should be installed…

I hate using third-party software if I don't need to. Give me GOG any day: no DRM, no download client, no nothing.

Originally Posted by Gokyabgu View Post
Option 3
Buy the disc version of the game. But also download and install the pirated and cracked version of the game which is cleansed all of these ridiculous programs. Play without the malware program that called the steamclient or whatever.
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
So, because Risen used a bad protection system - people can't complain about Steam because of pricing and another bad protection system, where they can't avoid a clunky piece of shit software AND the inability to sell the game?
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Exactly what problems did TAGES cause? I'm just curious because I honestly don't recall any issues.
This.

Exitus acta probat.
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