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Default M&M: Heroes VI - Demo Released

August 24th, 2011, 10:03
Baba Yaga… Puhlease. Ppl, you're overreacting without seeing it.
Get demo and check what it is about, I don't see anything except two names of which one, if they really want to have it slavic, is actually with a typo.

Originally Posted by screeg View Post
Re: King's Bounty ~ I never read any reviews that said the battles were imbalanced. I played it right through and loved it. It is true however that many different battles are open at the same time, so you could choose to go back and fight an easy battle, then run and get slaughtered by a superior force. It's not incredibly linear. All of which I would say is a big plus.
Ok, you persuaded me. I'll buy the game and play it and finish it so I don't have to post "based on reviews…".

Originally Posted by screeg View Post
Alrik makes it sound like HOMM6 is a clone of KB, but I highly doubt it.
If HoMM6 is a clone of KB, then KB is a clone of HoMM5. Simple as that.
HoMM6 is just a betterlooking HoMM5 but with some changes (possibility of town faction change, spells/skills are learnt by leveling up one by one instead of getting a few from different mage towers and map spots, mobs you control have some new abilities, you can't control a mine on an area unless you conquer a town or fort that controls it, etc).

Originally Posted by screeg View Post
What about the ludicrous quests? Marrying enchanted frogs and zombies? Fighting battles inside powerful artifacts against bizarre opponents? KB introduced a ton of weird and wonderful new ideas which fit very well. Hard to imagine HOMM capturing much of that.
Noone can give you this answer as we're playing demo, not a full game. 2 singleplayer maps/missions of which one is a tutorial. I've finished both maps on normal mode, it's not utterly easy as was in HoMM5, but it's not superchallenging like you would probably love - which again means this is not KB clone. And since on normal mode you can't get impossible to win fight, I guess you won't like it.

Based by two maps of the singleplayer campaign, I'll most probably buy the game. But I still have to try the skirmish map… Later today.
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August 24th, 2011, 14:50
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
If HoMM6 is a clone of KB, then KB is a clone of HoMM5. Simple as that.
Remember, though, that NWC's original King's Bounty from two decades ago is actually the predecessor to the whole lot.
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August 24th, 2011, 20:15
Originally Posted by screeg View Post
Alrik makes it sound like HOMM6 is a clone of KB, but I highly doubt it.
To make it clear : I solely meant the graphics and the art style. Nothing more, nothing less.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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August 24th, 2011, 22:01
Originally Posted by Motoki View Post
I'm kind of curious how this game is so overly Slavic. Are you fighting hoards of Vodyanoi lead by Baba Yaga or something?
Haha, as it was said it's just the names of the Haven rulers which are slavic. Other then that they are pretty much a pure generic fantasy empire.

The Sanctuary faction on the other hand is extremely Japanese. From the names and appearance of the heroes to it's creatures from Japanese mythology to the architectural style. Personally I think it's pretty cool, but if you are getting bent out of shape over a few slavic names you might have a melt down over that .

On a side note, speaking of unusual names, I think the most iconic namer in the entire MM (heroes and RPG) universe pre HoMM 5 was Craig Hack. Meanwhile many HoMM 3 heroes were named after the developers.
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August 24th, 2011, 22:06
I was being facetious. I don't mind Slavic names or influence in games at all. In fact, I was kind of disappointed that I felt Witcher 2 had less Slavic flavor than the first game but I suppose they were trying to appeal to a more international audience.
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August 24th, 2011, 22:06
Originally Posted by Michael Dean View Post
Remember, though, that NWC's original King's Bounty from two decades ago is actually the predecessor to the whole lot.
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
To make it clear : I solely meant the graphics and the art style. Nothing more, nothing less.
Ah well… I've checked screenshots and first thing I see is hexagonal map in KB. Ok, fight is turnbased, but the strategy on such field cannot be similar to boxed field in HoMM. As for graphics… Perhaps it is similar, I admit.
Anyways, I plan to buy KB tomorrow. The first one. If I like it I'll buy the second one too.

And here goes my last entry about the demo. Skirmish, normal, everyone for himself - I got pwned by AI! Honestly I don't understand how's that possible. I've killed one "color" (teal) and then when I got to level 9 two demons (yellow and green) came on me with "deadly" forces and heroes 2 levels above mine. I don't believe AI started with the fair amount of ress and units so I won't replay this skirmish for sure. You may say "jox it's not about the demo but you suck", but it is not. First skill I took was XP bonus and there was almost no round without a fight - I still got a hero 2 levels below two different other heroes. Not only that, when AI destroyed me, it actually attacked one of my towns and automatically ended the fight with my hero losing it?! I couldn't defend strategically (I don't say I'd win but at least it should give me a try as I played haven faction with 2 resurrections, spells of my hero and spells nuns have).

A few things for old HoMM players I haven't said before…
1. Your hero can move around without any unit attached. But if someone attacks him or her, it's instant death.
2. Teleport spells (to nearest town, or to town of your choice if already in one) all your heroes get if you build special buildings in a town. Yup, it's not hero's level based any more - and it sux. Because of that I couldn't catch an easy hero in skirmish. Oh and because of all those teleports, bonus on movement skill is a waste, you don't need it at all!
3. While chasing that easy hero, another dangerous one got near through the portal. What he did? Instead of taking units and beef up from the easy hero, he instantly attacked me and… Fled in the first round?! Couldn't believe my eyes. He wasn't marked as deadly, but the next thing after eadly, whichever it is. Bad AI, baaaaaad. I hope it's only skirmish AI.
4. Resources are now just three unlike 6 from old HoMM. And it feels like you have access to all three needed mines near your first town (at least in 3 maps available in demo). That sux. Why? Because there is a market in the game you can build in your towns and buy ress for some cheap money and exchange for another ress.
5. Did I mention diplomacy skill I've used in campaign maps? Well… That skill is utterly useless in skirmish. There is no mob you can recruit on the map with it. And now it occurs to me that AI's invincible army was maybe created by diplomacy of AI hero… Hmmm… In any case skirmish map if there is an useless skill is bad.

I just hope they'll polish those few things that bug me. The disappointment in demo's skirmish doesn't mean I won't buy the game. I will buy it for sure when it gets out as campaign definetly looks promising.
And I'm not sure what does it mean if you preorder you get 1 more item and 1 more hero… Any info on this?
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August 24th, 2011, 22:19
Originally Posted by Motoki View Post
I was being facetious. I don't mind Slavic names or influence in games at all. In fact, I was kind of disappointed that I felt Witcher 2 had less Slavic flavor than the first game but I suppose they were trying to appeal to a more international audience.
Oh yeah sorry I knew you were joking, I didn't mean to imply that you were the one getting upset about the names. And I liked the slavic flavor in Witcher 1 better as well.
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August 24th, 2011, 22:29
I had mentioned this above, but apparently in the skirmish description there are 3 AI players who start out in "richer" areas and the map description says that you have to hurry up and take them out before they build up too much. This is just one sample skirmish map though, HoMM games traditionally have many different ones with different rules and layouts.

Other then that I disagree that logistics is useless. Being able to move fast means collecting resources faster and building up faster. I still consider it a must have. It's also pretty expensive in crystals to build the advanced town portal and doing so can set you back quite a bit on getting your most advanced troops.

If you thought it was too easy to collect resources, try setting the map difficulty to normal instead of easy. I played for awhile and captured many extra mines and I never had enough resources to build everything in my main town.

I personally like the town portal system. Remember that it can be used to your advantage to help you kill those lesser heroes. It's just another tactical consideration to keep in mind.

Don't really understand how diplomacy works in the game yet so I can't comment about that.

Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Ah well… I've checked screenshots and first thing I see is hexagonal map in KB. Ok, fight is turnbased, but the strategy on such field cannot be similar to boxed field in HoMM. As for graphics… Perhaps it is similar, I admit.
Anyways, I plan to buy KB tomorrow. The first one. If I like it I'll buy the second one too.

And here goes my last entry about the demo. Skirmish, normal, everyone for himself - I got pwned by AI! Honestly I don't understand how's that possible. I've killed one "color" (teal) and then when I got to level 9 two demons (yellow and green) came on me with "deadly" forces and heroes 2 levels above mine. I don't believe AI started with the fair amount of ress and units so I won't replay this skirmish for sure. You may say "jox it's not about the demo but you suck", but it is not. First skill I took was XP bonus and there was almost no round without a fight - I still got a hero 2 levels below two different other heroes. Not only that, when AI destroyed me, it actually attacked one of my towns and automatically ended the fight with my hero losing it?! I couldn't defend strategically (I don't say I'd win but at least it should give me a try as I played haven faction with 2 resurrections, spells of my hero and spells nuns have).

A few things for old HoMM players I haven't said before…
1. Your hero can move around without any unit attached. But if someone attacks him or her, it's instant death.
2. Teleport spells (to nearest town, or to town of your choice if already in one) all your heroes get if you build special buildings in a town. Yup, it's not hero's level based any more - and it sux. Because of that I couldn't catch an easy hero in skirmish. Oh and because of all those teleports, bonus on movement skill is a waste, you don't need it at all!
3. While chasing that easy hero, another dangerous one got near through the portal. What he did? Instead of taking units and beef up from the easy hero, he instantly attacked me and… Fled in the first round?! Couldn't believe my eyes. He wasn't marked as deadly, but the next thing after eadly, whichever it is. Bad AI, baaaaaad. I hope it's only skirmish AI.
4. Resources are now just three unlike 6 from old HoMM. And it feels like you have access to all three needed mines near your first town (at least in 3 maps available in demo). That sux. Why? Because there is a market in the game you can build in your towns and buy ress for some cheap money and exchange for another ress.
5. Did I mention diplomacy skill I've used in campaign maps? Well… That skill is utterly useless in skirmish. There is no mob you can recruit on the map with it. And now it occurs to me that AI's invincible army was maybe created by diplomacy of AI hero… Hmmm… In any case skirmish map if there is an useless skill is bad.

I just hope they'll polish those few things that bug me. The disappointment in demo's skirmish doesn't mean I won't buy the game. I will buy it for sure when it gets out as campaign definetly looks promising.
And I'm not sure what does it mean if you preorder you get 1 more item and 1 more hero… Any info on this?
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August 24th, 2011, 23:18
Originally Posted by fadedc View Post
Haha, as it was said it's just the names of the Haven rulers which are slavic. Other then that they are pretty much a pure generic fantasy empire.
Yes, it's like that.

And there do appear a few German-sounding names as well.

Weird.

Originally Posted by Motoki View Post
I was being facetious. I don't mind Slavic names or influence in games at all. In fact, I was kind of disappointed that I felt Witcher 2 had less Slavic flavor than the first game but I suppose they were trying to appeal to a more international audience.
To me,
Originally Posted by Motoki View Post
I was being facetious. I don't mind Slavic names or influence in games at all. In fact, I was kind of disappointed that I felt Witcher 2 had less Slavic flavor than the first game but I suppose they were trying to appeal to a more international audience.
To me, the Witcher series is a Polish series. I'd expect it there.

The "names" topic is a strange thing … In Gothic 1, an otherwise genuine German game, the Reapers and other creatures have English-language names. I must say that i never understood that.
It was to me as if … a fully English-language game has several fantasy creatures with genuine German-language names in it.

I either want

1. "generic" names"

or

2. region-specific names

but a mixture of both always sounds weird to me.

I have become accustomed o that mix with the Divinity series, so it ain't that bad … It it disrupts the "immersion" thing for me, sometimes … For the HOMM series I'd expect "generic" names …

… But in the end, it's all a "taste" thing …

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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August 25th, 2011, 10:17
Originally Posted by fadedc View Post
If you thought it was too easy to collect resources, try setting the map difficulty to normal instead of easy. I played for awhile and captured many extra mines and I never had enough resources to build everything in my main town.
Hello?
I said I played it on normal. Not only that, but I've built everything in my first town and everything in the town I've conquered. Honestly I didn't see a resources problem. If you want, I can mail you or upload my savegame just prior to the point an overpowered opponent pwns my main hero.
The problematic part is what I've said - superhigh level of 2 opponents' heroes. Hurry up you say? I also said I took the XP bonus skill, with what more hurryup I could match enemy's level 11 (my hero was level 9)?

IMO the demo skirmish map has a problem on normal setting. Or I have a problem with it, doesn't matter. Unlike two campaign maps, demo skirmish map sux.
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August 25th, 2011, 18:35
Was anyone able to find out what this "Conflux" online-thing actually is ?

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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August 25th, 2011, 19:51
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Hello?
I said I played it on normal. Not only that, but I've built everything in my first town and everything in the town I've conquered. Honestly I didn't see a resources problem. If you want, I can mail you or upload my savegame just prior to the point an overpowered opponent pwns my main hero.
The problematic part is what I've said - superhigh level of 2 opponents' heroes. Hurry up you say? I also said I took the XP bonus skill, with what more hurryup I could match enemy's level 11 (my hero was level 9)?

IMO the demo skirmish map has a problem on normal setting. Or I have a problem with it, doesn't matter. Unlike two campaign maps, demo skirmish map sux.
Well there are two seperate difficulty levels, AI difficulty and map difficulty. I had assumed that AI difficulty was at normal and map difficulty at default, but I guess I was wrong.

+25% XP is not a rush skill. It's a long term skill that only pays off in extended games. Rushing means taking out enemy castles within the first few weeks before they have had time to build. If you were taking the time to build up 2 towns to full upgrades before attacking opponents on a map that tells you to rush your enemy, then that's why they were so much stronger then you.

Anyway I do note that the default difficulty for that map is easy, which means weaker neutral stacks. I had set it to normal as well, but it's possible it might be much harder on normal because the neutral stacks make it harder to rush.
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August 26th, 2011, 10:53
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Was anyone able to find out what this "Conflux" online-thing actually is ?
No sorry. But since I plan to play only singleplayer, I wasn't interested much in it.
I got KB. So far it's great. Why did you "put it on pause"? The story, ok sidequests, absolutely rock!

Originally Posted by fadedc View Post
Well there are two seperate difficulty levels, AI difficulty and map difficulty. I had assumed that AI difficulty was at normal and map difficulty at default, but I guess I was wrong.
No, default is easy and I've changed it to normal.

Originally Posted by fadedc View Post
+25% XP is not a rush skill. It's a long term skill that only pays off in extended games. Rushing means taking out enemy castles within the first few weeks before they have had time to build. If you were taking the time to build up 2 towns to full upgrades before attacking opponents on a map that tells you to rush your enemy, then that's why they were so much stronger then you.
Um… My hero wasn't just idling but was running around killing mobs all the time. Which still doesn't explain how enemy heroes got 2 levels more than I did. Town building has nothing to do with it. Not only that, but two of level 11 attacked me when I reached level 9. Level cap by AI?

Originally Posted by fadedc View Post
Anyway I do note that the default difficulty for that map is easy, which means weaker neutral stacks. I had set it to normal as well, but it's possible it might be much harder on normal because the neutral stacks make it harder to rush.
Yea well, it's demo. I got pwned by AI on normal in skirmish mode in demo, and that's ok. I'll now wait for a full game.
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August 26th, 2011, 12:19
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
No sorry. But since I plan to play only singleplayer, I wasn't interested much in it.
I got KB. So far it's great. Why did you "put it on pause"? The story, ok sidequests, absolutely rock!
1. This "Conflux" thing seemingly doesn't consist of multiplayer. I repeat that there was in the campain this "conflux orb" which would give the player sentences "of wisdom" if the player was connected … But I don't know how …

2. I put it "on pause" because it became too hard for me in the demon's area, and later in the "deadlands".

Perhaps I should go back one day, but I fear that I'm stuck there right now …

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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August 26th, 2011, 13:48
1. I know I clicked on it in demo. I guess it would give you a hint on something if it was really working. I really don't think it'd boost some of your stats or add a skillpoint to spend.

2. Ok, I've just started and got hooked because of the bizzare quests like getting a cow for "little shop of horrors" flesheating plant. As expected from reviews there are impossible to win mobs on maps, but they become easier over time when you level up and invest in skills. My skills? Maybe this will surprise you. I took a mage but first I improved might! Added a skill to swordsmen then unlocked a level of getting more bowmen. Next I'll try to get recruiting more priests but it's more complicated than bowmen… Oh and the best thing is that you're fast on your horse so you can practically escape from hard to win mobs! This was handy - I've managed to solve the zombiecurse by first getting a boat for free on the adjacent map then approach the hut with pirate chief from the sea escaping dangerous spider mob. And got myself a wife. And she is zombie unless you use a spell to transorm her. I simply can't believe noone persuaded me to buy this game before. I'm already thinking on buying the sequel. Too bad the sequel is not available on GOG…

Anyways I've just started and dunno where is demon area and deadlands. Maybe I get stuck there too, but then again maybe I don't. Oh, and I'm playing it on normal, did you by any chance started on hard?


As an end to this post I must say this. The only similarity this game has with HoMM5 are some units and hero+army turn based combat. Everything else is totally different. Everything.
However HoMM6 changed a few things so now HoMM6 and KB have these things as same:
1. Turn-based combat, hero+army
2. Some units are similar, but then again you can't be original on bowmen or a skeleton, right?
3. Hero can make an action at any time during the fight (couldn't in HoMM5)
4. Hero improves skills on a skilltree (wasn't available in HoMM5) however in HoMM6 it's level based, in KB it's runes based although in KB you get runes as a rare loot and by levelup

Other things in these two are still different.
That'd be about it. For now.
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August 26th, 2011, 16:34
I still believe that in HOMM6 and in KB, the art style and the graphics style have a lot of similarities.

The HOMM6 unit models look a bit more realistic, but that's it, imho.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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August 26th, 2011, 16:52
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
I still believe that in HOMM6 and in KB, the art style and the graphics style have a lot of similarities.

The HOMM6 unit models look a bit more realistic, but that's it, imho.
Not just units, the areas are different. In KB, at least starting areas are more of cartoonish style than HoMM6 areas. Also check the hyperrealism trying minianimation of forts and towns, I didn't see something like that in KB. Art least not yet. But if we'll compare them both to HoMM5, graphics in HoMM5 is far inferior to both.
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August 26th, 2011, 19:36
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Um… My hero wasn't just idling but was running around killing mobs all the time. Which still doesn't explain how enemy heroes got 2 levels more than I did. Town building has nothing to do with it. Not only that, but two of level 11 attacked me when I reached level 9. Level cap by AI?


.
I think you misunderstand what rushing means in HoMM games. It has nothing to do with running around killing netural troops. It has everything to do with wiping out enemy AI players as fast as possible. If your running around and leveling up and building up your town then your not rushing.

As for how they got higher level, that's easy. Their starting area has more resources, which lets them build more troops and wipe out higher level stacks and level up faster. That's why you have to rush them. If you wait to build up you will lose because they will build up faster then you.
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August 27th, 2011, 00:08
I hate having to rush.

To me, it's totally against my intention to play this game : Explore, explore, explore …

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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August 27th, 2011, 00:34
Well, finished the demo and went right ahead and purchased so I get access to the beta. Who wants to wait 'til October? It feels like the whole skill system is gonna take a while to get used to, loads of skills seems kinda worthless since your can only act one time per round. In earlier incarnations of Homm most skills were passive and as such more beneficial. I guess if you have a might hero you'll just focus on passive skills and maybe just a single spell or warcy, and as a mage you'll pick one school of magic and stick with it, otherwise you'll just waste ability points.

2 hours to download the beta, guess I won't be playing anything tonight…
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