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November 18th, 2011, 22:02
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
You cant fight the tabloids.
But with ?

Instead of clubs ?

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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November 20th, 2011, 12:47
A blog discussing something else we've talked about in this thread.

Übereil

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The Chaos Cascade
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November 21st, 2011, 16:27
From a both symbolical and cynical perspective, the … putting away of the "Occupiers" sends out one imple message :

Money is King !

The state, the government will protect trading and commerce so much as if it was more important than the will of human beings.

The "meta-being" called commerce has managed to get its "cells" together in order to protect it. It could be a hive mind of let's say an ant colony calling it's "soldiers" to put away everything that endangers the colony's queen.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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November 21st, 2011, 16:37
I think this movie explains a lot http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=SE&v=u6XAPnuFjJc
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November 21st, 2011, 19:08
Speaking of Wall Street, it's getting hammered again today. The Dow is down by more than 300 points right now.

Not good…
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November 21st, 2011, 19:16
Originally Posted by Ubereil View Post
A blog discussing something else we've talked about in this thread.

Übereil
Funny that you'd post that after defending the OWS stance against reporting sexual assault to police. From your source:
Women need to know that they can call their experiences "rape" and report them as crimes.
No mention of getting the rapists counselling there, let alone making it the sole action to be taken.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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November 21st, 2011, 19:42
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Speaking of Wall Street, it's getting hammered again today. The Dow is down by more than 300 points right now.

Not good…
I think that's the result of "Super Congress" gridlock. Apparently your lawmakers (on both sides) are completely incapable of reaching any sort of conclusions on anything…
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November 21st, 2011, 19:49
Inability of Republicans to compromise after pledging to Grover Norquist that they won't raise taxes is a big part of the problem. Why is the GOP beholden to this idiot?
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November 21st, 2011, 19:57
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
Inability of Republicans to compromise after pledging to Grover Norquist that they won't raise taxes is a big part of the problem. Why is the GOP beholden to this idiot?
I don't think it really has anything to do with that so much as it does with their pledge to their constituents not to increase taxes. We could turn it around though, why are Democrats so unwilling to cut spending?

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November 21st, 2011, 20:02
Because spending cuts will mainly affect poor and middle class which are already hit heavily by the crisis?
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November 21st, 2011, 20:04
On the contrary, Democrats HAVE compromised to make spending cuts, but Republicans have not compromised to raise taxes, or cut spending on defense. I see no compromise coming from Republicans at all.
Last edited by Thrasher; November 21st, 2011 at 21:02.
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November 21st, 2011, 20:09
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Because spending cuts will mainly affect poor and middle class which are already hit heavily by the crisis?
Unfortunately, that can't be helped if we want to actually fix the problems of our debt rather than just kick the can down the road a bit.

Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
On the contrary, Demecrats HAVE comprised to make spending cuts, but Republicans have not compromised to raise taxes, or cut spending on defense. I see no compromise coming from Republicans at all.
On some yes, but not nearly as much as is needed. The cuts they have a greed too would barely reduce the expected deficit and it would still be well above what it was at the end of Bush's term, and we were all freaking out during Bush's term about high high the deficit was!

Look, while I am a conservative, I have no real love for the Republican party anymore. I think both of them are a bunch of assholes that are only out to line their own pockets.

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November 21st, 2011, 21:05
The current set of ninnies in Congress are doing nothing to inspire people and companies to release the purse strings. Cutting the deficit won't help in that matter. Demand needs to rise, not supply.
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November 21st, 2011, 21:07
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
The current set of ninnies in Congress are doing nothing to inspire people and companies to release the purse strings. Cutting the deficit won't help in that matter. Demand needs to rise, not supply.
Agree 100% on demand. One of the problems with companies not spending their cash though is that they are extremely (and IMO correctly) concerned about how the level of government deficit and debt is going to affect them. More, or even same, government spending isn't going to fix the problems in the short term, and just make them worse in the long term. It's a bit of a catch 22 unfortunately.

It's like driving a car towards a drawbridge that is up to get to a hospital while your buddy is bleeding in the back seat. If you just hit the gas, you're both dead. If you slow down and wait for the bridge to close, you're buddy may or may not live, but you both won't go face first into the river.

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November 21st, 2011, 21:16
Originally Posted by blatantninja View Post
One of the problems with companies not spending their cash though is that they are extremely (and IMO correctly) concerned about how the level of government deficit and debt is going to affect them.
Really? I have a hard time believing that. That's just rightwing propaganda.

I think they are more concerned about not being able to pay monstrous amounts to their top execs. The large debt actually is keeping interest rates low, and more money in the pool.
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November 21st, 2011, 21:24
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
Really? I have a hard time believing that. That's just rightwing propaganda.

I think they are more concerned about not being able to pay monstrous amounts to their top execs. The large debt actually is keeping interest rates low, and more money in the pool.
Sorry, but while I don't disagree that they want to pay their Execs a bunch, you don't hold $10s of billions of dollars in cash to payout your Execs a few hundred million.

They do like the low interest rates (mostly), as it lowers their cost of capital, but the smart companies are more worried about the long term effects of that. One of the main issues they face is that they can end up having to pay higher rates than their credit profile would imply because available funds are being soaked up by the expansion of govt credit. So they end up not benefiting as much from the lower rates as you'd think. Add in that for their cash reserves, they then either have to increase their risk profile, or accept the low rate of govt securities, and they can find themselves in a classic squeeze.

While not an exact parallel, Japan ran into a lot of the same problems in the 80's and its taken them two decades to crawl out of it. And that was WITH a strong export economy, something we no longer have.

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November 21st, 2011, 22:14
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
Really? I have a hard time believing that. That's just rightwing propaganda.

I think they are more concerned about not being able to pay monstrous amounts to their top execs. The large debt actually is keeping interest rates low, and more money in the pool.
One of our corporate muckity-mucks came down last month and stated flat out that we would not be doing any front office hiring and minimal hourly hiring until the real costs and effects of Obamacare were determined. Single data point, but conclude what you will.

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November 21st, 2011, 22:18
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
I think that's the result of "Super Congress" gridlock. Apparently your lawmakers (on both sides) are completely incapable of reaching any sort of conclusions on anything…
That, and the situation in Europe is dragging the market down as well.
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November 21st, 2011, 22:23
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
One of our corporate muckity-mucks came down last month and stated flat out that we would not be doing any front office hiring and minimal hourly hiring until the real costs and effects of Obamacare were determined. Single data point, but conclude what you will.
You'd think that after a couple of years, that would be figured out by now? Sounds like an excuse…
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November 21st, 2011, 22:29
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
You'd think that after a couple of years, that would be figured out by now? Sounds like an excuse…
The full effects aren't even close to being realized yet unfortunately. We'll know more before 2014, but 2012 and 2013 should be very interesting.

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