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Default The Witcher 2 - v2.0 Interview, Patch Notes

September 28th, 2011, 12:17
My decision to wait with games half a year from release bears fruit yet again!

(but im going to wait even further with DA2, to get it all in a package you know…, or the horrible thought, play it on PS3)

Looking forward to playing it this autumn and even planning on getting another 6850 for crossfire for TW2 (and ME3).

C

All in all, I think CDP have been a fresh gust into the CRPG developer crowd.
They are not perfect, but who is?
(I know Im not )
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September 28th, 2011, 18:44
The changes in the way combat works are pretty big, are they admitting the original design was faulty or succumbing to the pressure of gamers?

I'd just like to interject here and point out that I'm not going to say anything to spoil the mood, Chief. I'll just float here and watch. Don't mind me, just sitting here, floating and watching, that's me.
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September 29th, 2011, 01:03
Originally Posted by Kostaz View Post
The changes in the way combat works are pretty big, are they admitting the original design was faulty or succumbing to the pressure of gamers?
I will have to say both. They stated the game was built fine the way it was now after all the complaining from other review sites we get a combat renovation.

Speaking to Eurogamer Tomasz Gop, who is the senior producer at CD Projekt RED working on The Witcher 2, said, “Obviously we have been inspired by hardcore games, by difficult games, and maybe that might be the reason why it was not that obvious to us.”

He added, “But we didn't want the game to be a piece of cake at the beginning like, you know, an interactive movie. That wasn't what we were aiming for. We definitely wanted to introduce at least some level of difficulty. I think the most common misunderstanding is that most people compare our 'normal difficulty' to other games' 'normal difficulty'.”

The game offers an Easy setting for those who just want to breeze through the combat elements and enjoy the story.

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September 29th, 2011, 03:30
That would be disappointing. It seems click spamming will be possible in 2.0
I wish there was a way to get all the fixes on combat glitches and responsiveness while keeping the original combat.

I'd just like to interject here and point out that I'm not going to say anything to spoil the mood, Chief. I'll just float here and watch. Don't mind me, just sitting here, floating and watching, that's me.
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September 29th, 2011, 10:19
Originally Posted by Kostaz View Post
That would be disappointing. It seems click spamming will be possible in 2.0
I wish there was a way to get all the fixes on combat glitches and responsiveness while keeping the original combat.
Why would you do that? The changes to the combat system are most welcome for me, because there is still no autoparry or autoblock function. The original combat WAS unbalanced and overly hectic, so not very fitting for a RPG. If I wanted that I'd play Die by the Sword or Severance.
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September 29th, 2011, 10:37
Originally Posted by Sir_Brennus View Post
Why would you do that? The changes to the combat system are most welcome for me, because there is still no autoparry or autoblock function. The original combat WAS unbalanced and overly hectic, so not very fitting for a RPG. If I wanted that I'd play Die by the Sword or Severance.
You would actually want autoparry and autoblock in TW2? That would make combat too simplistic and detract from the strategic aspects, imo. I realize not everyone likes real-time combat, but it defeats the purpose once you start to automate things like that.
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September 29th, 2011, 11:00
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
You would actually want autoparry and autoblock in TW2? That would make combat too simplistic and detract from the strategic aspects, imo. I realize not everyone likes real-time combat, but it defeats the purpose once you start to automate things like that.
Yes, of course. Active blocking or parrying is a major annoyance for me in an Action RPG. I don't need that in this genre.

Look at the combat 2W: In 2W1 it worked very well for me, autoblocking and all. 2W2 botched that totally and made the game near unplayable for me. The way TW2 2.0 adresses this issues may be an acceptable middle ground.

But autoblock is sth even action games can do sometimes. Look at beat-em-ups like Tekken. As long as you don't move or start an attack yourself, all blockable attacks are automatically blocked. This makes combat more tactical than button-mashing twitchy. You have to study your opponent closely and time your attacks properly or you will get your ass kicked. All this comes without being overly complicated using manual blocking (which you can do also, IF you WANT to).
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September 29th, 2011, 11:53
So you think having to manually block makes things "button-mashing twitchy'? I guess I have to disagree with you on that. I think there's more of a chance you're going to be mashing buttons when all you have to do is attack, but to each his own.
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September 29th, 2011, 13:59
I think it's easier not the think of the block as a block, instead consider it a special limited (pre-patch at least) ability. The Witcher didn't have blocking, and you don't need it in TW2 either, but you can use it in a directed manner to counter an action by your opponent. It's not like a fighting game where it usually just negates something, blocking in TW2 actively opens up a situation for a suitable response. This special ability can also be enhanced via spending skill points, in true RPG fashion.
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September 29th, 2011, 14:23
The Risen/Gothic game have manual block that negates attacks when they are not attacks that break through block and it is a very important aspect to the combat system and unless you were really good at combat you would die without it.
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September 29th, 2011, 15:33
Originally Posted by guenthar View Post
The Risen/Gothic game have manual block that negates attacks when they are not attacks that break through block and it is a very important aspect to the combat system and unless you were really good at combat you would die without it.
I think that is right for G1 or G2 and Risen. And that is why I never liked the combat system in those three games. I was able to play G3, though.
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September 29th, 2011, 16:29
Most of the changes/improvements are I fine I guess, but, at least on paper, 2,4 and 5 will make the game worse in my book.

2. Parrying is now unlimited (even when Vigor is completely depleted), though parries no longer cancel all damage (maximum 50% reduction once the relevant ability has been acquired).

Parrying was close to unlimited pre-2.0 as well with Tawny Owl and/or with points invested in some of the vigor regenerating skills.
And since the damage reduction was 100% when the skill was maxed out, it was a viable alternative to rolling in a lot of situations (on top of being useful to disbalance some heavy opponents).
Making it unlimited by default lessens the RPG aspect of it and capping its damage reduction at 50% makes it a lot less useful as an action element and only encourages more rolling, thus less varied play style.
If anything, they should´ve made rolling vigor dependent.

4. Geralt´s attacks are no longer interrupted by attacking opponents. Attacks are now contiguous and foes cannot interrupt Geralt´s attacks by landing a blow.
5. Assorted fixes now prevent opponents from incessantly attacking Geralt after he has been knocked down.

Further lessens importance of approaching encounters in a somewhat considerate manner. I really don´t like these.

Personally I hoped that when it comes to combat balance and this patch, the major care would be given addressing the second half of the game where the combat becomes too easy.

Originally Posted by Sir_Brennus View Post
Relentless attacking FTW!
Originally Posted by Sir_Brennus View Post
Yes, of course. Active blocking or parrying is a major annoyance for me in an Action RPG. I don't need that in this genre.
In action RPGs, personally I prefer when attacking is also automated .

On a more serious note, making blocking automated is the worst way to go about in action/RPG imo.
As I see it, in a game with good action/RPG combat, players have full control over when and what action their char will execute, with the effectiveness and/or availability of these actions being determined via char development system.
Plus, automated blocking even when linked to one or more stats simply takes tactical/emergent element out of the action, so I prefer it active even when there´s no stat influencing it.
Anyway, imo an ideal action/RPG hybrid is when both aspects are about 50/50, both challenge the player and sufficient handling of both is required to successful progress through a game. Even with its relatively simple char development system, I think this kind of harmony was achieved best in G2:NotR.

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Last edited by DeepO; September 29th, 2011 at 16:59.
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September 29th, 2011, 17:42
DeepO's post pretty much sums up my thoughts. The targeting improvements alone make this patch too hard to pass up but the fact that the tactical nature of the combat system has been altered makes me skeptical.

I'd just like to interject here and point out that I'm not going to say anything to spoil the mood, Chief. I'll just float here and watch. Don't mind me, just sitting here, floating and watching, that's me.
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September 29th, 2011, 18:46
Originally Posted by DeepO View Post
In action RPGs, personally I prefer when attacking is also automated .
In all seriousness? My favorite game ever is Ultima 7, so yeah, I do.

But realistically I don't expect that. I know it's not what the masses want and you won't get crossover appeal to the action crowd with that. Basically I just want combat that doesn't annoy the crap out of me and force me to do a bunch of stupid combos and all that mess. I freely admit I am happy to click spam. I just want to be done with it. Combat to me is a necessary evil that I do to get to the good stuff. I don't enjoy it generally, though there may be some rare exceptions to that.

I also think they shouldn't call easy easy. I personally have no qualms about playing it, but I think it's ego bruising and most players won't select it, even those who really should be playing it and will complain to high hell about normal being too hard.

There are of course the games that bump up easy to normal and normal to hard etc, but I think a better system is to just call it something else. 'Casual' is fine, but I really like what Deus Ex did with "Tell me a Story" mode because that's why I really play games so that exactly fits me and TW2 is a very story oriented game.
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September 29th, 2011, 20:03
Originally Posted by Motoki View Post
In all seriousness? My favorite game ever is Ultima 7, so yeah, I do.

But realistically I don't expect that. I know it's not what the masses want and you won't get crossover appeal to the action crowd with that. Basically I just want combat that doesn't annoy the crap out of me and force me to do a bunch of stupid combos and all that mess. I freely admit I am happy to click spam. I just want to be done with it. Combat to me is a necessary evil that I do to get to the good stuff. I don't enjoy it generally, though there may be some rare exceptions to that.

I also think they shouldn't call easy easy. I personally have no qualms about playing it, but I think it's ego bruising and most players won't select it, even those who really should be playing it and will complain to high hell about normal being too hard.

There are of course the games that bump up easy to normal and normal to hard etc, but I think a better system is to just call it something else. 'Casual' is fine, but I really like what Deus Ex did with "Tell me a Story" mode because that's why I really play games so that exactly fits me and TW2 is a very story oriented game.
Full ACK! TW2 just became playable and people complain. Meh, I may not longer be hardcore enough after playing CRPGs for 25 years.
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September 29th, 2011, 20:19
Originally Posted by Sir_Brennus View Post
Full ACK! TW2 just became playable and people complain. Meh, I may not longer be hardcore enough after playing CRPGs for 25 years.
I'm not and I admit it. I started out on turn based and then some 'light' A-RPGs like Zelda and such or ones with just straightforward slashing/spellslinging like Diablo.

RPGs these days are wordy action games that require Street Fighter combos and have Mortal Kombat finishing moves.
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September 29th, 2011, 20:48
Originally Posted by Motoki View Post
In all seriousness? My favorite game ever is Ultima 7, so yeah, I do.
But Ultima 7 is pretty much a story driven adventure/exploration game with hilariously shitty combat tackled on top, not really and action/RPG .
How about automating combat in Ultima Underworlds?

I have nothing against making the game welcoming™ for people who are interested only in its story and general running around via easy/tell-me-a-story/switch-action-off/whatever options, but since I like games like this precisely for their combination of story, action and RPG layers, when I see (non-optional) changes which imo make the latter 2 worse, I´m bothered.

Originally Posted by Sir_Brennus View Post
TW2 just became playable
Incorrect. I´ve finished the game 2 times already and it happened long before this patch.

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September 29th, 2011, 20:53
Incorrect. I´ve finished the game 2 times already and it happened long before this patch.
Nitpicking. I meant "playable for old farts like me".
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September 29th, 2011, 20:56
Originally Posted by DeepO View Post
But Ultima 7 is pretty much a story driven adventure/exploration game with hilariously shitty combat tackled on top, not really and action/RPG .
It's not really turn based either. It's sort of its own thing. An automated combat rpg.

How about automating combat in Ultima Underworlds?
As much as I dislike combat, I agree that would be odd to say the least. Like being a possessed person running around who had no control over their body.

Hmm, could actually make for an interesting sort of non-RPG game if implemented properly, but I digress.

I have nothing against making the game welcoming™ for people who are interested only in its story and general running around via easy/tell-me-a-story/switch-action-off/whatever options, but since I like games like this precisely for their combination of story, action and RPG layers, when I see changes which imo make the latter 2 worse, I'm bothered.
To be clear, while I personally find the combat a pain in the ass and support anything that lets it be less twitchy and tiresome for me in the easy-come-on-guys-did-you-really-have-to-call-it-easy mode, I don't necessarily think they should be doing things that make the combat easier and more automated in the normal mode and definitely not in the hard/dark/insane modes.
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September 29th, 2011, 20:59
It's out, in case you didn't know.
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