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October 2nd, 2011, 21:36
Mike kinda says it all. Still there are two things I want to add. First, we do not do half stars. If it would be 4.5 stars the editor would have to select if it is closer to 4 or closer to 5 stars. Another reason why a five star game does not equal perfection.
Secondly these ratings, like all ratings, are subjective as the reviewers are human. You are free to challenge their decision, but please do so using the correct conception of what a 5 star game at RPGwatch actually means.

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October 2nd, 2011, 21:48
One thing to think about here, is that it is a 5 star game to the person reviewing it, who:

1) has his own tastes.
2) own biases.

So you won't always agree with them. That being said, with what I have played so far(not a lot) it's been good so far. Is it a 5 star to me? not sure, I think I would be leaning towards 3 or 4…it's good, but nothing has wowed me yet.

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October 3rd, 2011, 08:47
SirJames: If character creation was put into this game it would lose some of what makes the game what it is so there always are sacrifices.
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October 3rd, 2011, 14:33
Good reviews.
I disagree this game doesnít have endless combat like in Wiz8, but at least that is true so far. I am enjoying this game, but I think it could be far better. I wouldnít take the time to write this if I didnít like the game and want number 2 to be a better game (for me and my tastes at least). Minor spoilers to follow.

There are only a couple of things I strongly dislike. One of them is the (realistic) system of getting progressively more tired the more you exert yourself and rest. I call it getting smoked. Realistic, but annoying. And it may could have worked well if there was more stamina in general. My dual-weidling rogue is out of stamina within a four person fight and is down to a 20 or 25% cap penalty. I purchased all the, what seem, stamina related perks but Iím not sure if they do anything. Is a regular attack an active feat? Does energy conservation do anything to help stem the tide? I have no idea. Give us the numbers for the perks, feats, skills, etc.

I dislike there being only one resource to manage (stamina). Even though it is realistic and I should agree with it (but it is so annoying I donít) I dislike regular attacks using the one resource. I think only active combat feats/abilities should use stamina and I think there should be more and better feats, like bleeds, etc. The current feats would work well as modes (+ hit, - def).

And I also think that magic users should use mana, and there should be a lot more of it, and that AoE spells shouldnít require spellstones. I literally never use AoE spells because of that. I am a saver. I donít use potions or any consumables either unless Iím stuck or need to in order to not revert to an earlier save. I donít know if there is a ridiculously hard dungeon around the next corner Iíll need all my resources for.

I hate (or, I should say for emphasis I really fucking hate) any game that makes you rest after each battle. I hate it with a passion. Restrict the areas we can rest and make us manage our resources well between those areas. And for the love of all that is holy let us use AoE spells without using a rare consumable. The amount of stamina (hopefully mana in part 2) used should be the restricting factor. Make the powerful spells, like the one increasing melee damage by 50% cost a lot more so you only use it on boss type fights.

Combat in this game is more of a chore than tactical, TB fun. I canít rebind key 2 but my attack key is 1 and I usually just hit 1 over and over and over because spells usually do similar damage but for more stamina and have far more steps to cast and require more thought than just hitting 1. A lot of times I just have one of my kids do it for me while I ran out to have a smoke or to piss. ďJust keep hitting 1.Ē Iíd come back and throw out a heal or two.

I donít buff for regular fighting because I donít want to waste time and my precious resource. And if it wasn;t for the HoTs I wouldíve stopped playing from annoyance a while ago.

The combat system could be great, but is really, really annoying as is now. I think you should shoot for a Wiz7 type combat system

Also, this might be just me but I dislike character development systems that include one way to level increase anything (like this game and spiderweb games). I personally like systems that have different inputs. i.e. every other level you get a stat point, and every level you get a point to pick for anything but a stat.

And lastly, I havenít found one good piece of equipment to spend my money on. That is a huge carrot on a stick. Iím assuming there is a second town, but if not, for me at least, a huge appeal of pushing through to the next town was to check the shops and get some upgrades. I think paper dolls would help in this regard as I am not certain what slots there are for equipment. For instance, out of nowhere addrianaís damage went way down and I finally figured out it was the necklace I equipped unequipped her sword.

Other than that, great job. I enjoy the game until I get too annoyed to play, but so far have gone back to it and have enjoyed the game, and the story, and the mechanics not mentioned above tremendously. This game is far more worth the price than any other game Iíve bought since Avernum 5, and then ToEE before that, and Wiz8 before that.

Also, I think Wiz7 was a better game than Wiz8 when it come to most mechanics/features but Wiz8 did some great things with spells (like the various teirs, levels and fizzling/backfired) and the formation options.

p.s. I would like a quicksave included in part 2.

p.p.s Sorry this was not well written. I am in a rush.
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October 3rd, 2011, 15:50
@Unrestigered

I like to find the best weapons in the deepest dungeons - buying them in shops is is uncool.

Resting without healing is fast and (nearly) safe. Let the Priest heal the team before resting and regain stamina.

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October 3rd, 2011, 17:55
HiddenX:

Thank yuo for the advice. It would help if I was 12 or retarded. I have beaten games that would make most people's faces imploid.

I like the best loot to be rare and rewarding when I find it in dundeons. But, at lvl 8, only one of my characters has footwear, only one has a cloak, only one seems to be able to wear a hemet without huge penalties. Are there ring slots, a belt slot? I found you cannot havea necklace and weapon equipped at the same time. What gear slots are avilable exactly?

That is wear the town vendors come in, just like the "old-school" rpgs this game is supposedly modeled after. Find the next town and upgrade your shit gear that wasn't found in a dungeon. Its just another element. Another carrot on a stick. Another motivator to keep you plugging away.

As for resting: resting systems like this, or in NWN 2, are pure retarded mechanics wise. It makes resource mangement almost meaningless. The stamina-cap system is a way to add meaning onto meaninglessness. NWN 2 didn't have this, and it broke the game for me. This games answer to meaningless resource management is an annoying system I doubt many people like.

Meaningful resource management=stragey and tactics. Meaningless resources management means just getting through the combat as fast as possible.
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October 3rd, 2011, 18:31
Originally Posted by Unrestigered View Post
HiddenX:
I like the best loot to be rare and rewarding when I find it in dundeons. But, at lvl 8, only one of my characters has footwear, only one has a cloak, only one seems to be able to wear a hemet without huge penalties. Are there ring slots, a belt slot? I found you cannot havea necklace and weapon equipped at the same time. What gear slots are avilable exactly?
You can wear belts (rare to find) ->I like it this way - to find a new item actually means something in this game. In most games nowadays you are finding way to much S.U.P.E.R. -gear in each battle.

BTW: I have beaten nearly every western style crpg on C64, Amiga and PC since 1982 so there's really nothing that can scare me anymore.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
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October 3rd, 2011, 19:15
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Might as well be - since there has never been and never will be a perfect game. Not technically, not conceptually, and certainly not based on the different opinions and preferences of reviewers.
True - even the mighty Baldur's Gate II, the PINNACLE of the RPG, isn't perfect.

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October 3rd, 2011, 19:51
I agree. I couldn't stand BG2 Contingencies and Counterspells for maximum boring fights.

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October 3rd, 2011, 22:17
Originally Posted by Relayer View Post
True - even the mighty Baldur's Gate II, the PINNACLE of the RPG, isn't perfect.
Thats crazy talk. The RoA trilogy is the pinnacle. BG1 and 2 was the beginning of the end. It made horrible, shit combat an industry standard.

You can wear belts (rare to find) ->I like it this way - to find a new item actually means something in this game. In most games nowadays you are finding way to much S.U.P.E.R. -gear in each battle.
No one is saying super gear. Give me a paperdoll and something to put in a slot. I hate games with too much gear. I could tolerate Diablo for 30 minutes or so every time I tried playing because of all the gear. RoA had it right (and did the best job making rare loot actually special), followed by the Wizardries, or basically any SSI or SirTek game really. Even EotB had vendors which sold valuable loot. This isn't getting us far though. Let me ask you these questions:

1) Would the game be better with a different resource management system. In example—mana for mana users, regualr attacks don't use stamina, and there is more mana than is currently avialable. Restrict rest areas/viable rest areas.

2) AoE spells didn't need a consumable.

3) The vendor in town had some piece of gear worth buying. Or at least a full spread to show characters their build options (like a defensive off-hand duel wield item, ranged items, etc). Possible placeholder crap ietms for all characters for most slots. Shitty shoes, belts, helmets, capes, whatever else there is.
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October 3rd, 2011, 23:32
I would say:
1) Mana for Magic / Stamina for combat (a little more than the current stamina - depending on stats)

then u need
a) restricted (safe) rest areas
b) maybe mana/stamina potions & food (expensive and/or hard to find/maybe the group has to learn some Alchemy skills)
-> that would be close to Dungeon Master

2) I don't use a lot AoE-spells, so I'm indifferrent in this.

3) I like the trading system in the Realms of Arkania games, too. Most shops have common stuff only - magic items are extreme expensive and rare too find.

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October 3rd, 2011, 23:55
I actually agree that there isn't enough to spend silver on. I have literally never bought a piece of gear from a store, because there was never anything I wanted. Occasionally I've bought a consumable but never an equipable item.

The best gear should be found in dungeons, but there should be some gear that you can find in stores that you would actually want to use at least at lower level. I mean we aren't even talking about magic items not being available, that's fine. But in FK you can't even get basic heavy armor from the store, you can only find it in dungeons. That's going a little too far.
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October 4th, 2011, 01:11
Originally Posted by Unrestigered View Post
Thats crazy talk. The RoA trilogy is the pinnacle. BG1 and 2 was the beginning of the end. It made horrible, shit combat an industry standard.
Speaking of crazy talk…
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October 4th, 2011, 01:40
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Speaking of crazy talkÖ
Well, Unrestigered already qualified his statements by saying he is a retarded 12 year old …

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October 4th, 2011, 02:17
I bought spellstones, revive and liquid nap potions. You'll need your gold for those, but I didn't buy anything else in the stores. I explored everywhere and found better items in the dungeons.

I like this. I spend my gold on consumables and get the better equipment in long lost dungeons where it is supposed to be.

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October 4th, 2011, 02:44
Plain shoes, belts, capes, weapons, and armor only come from old dungeons? I guess in a crazyland where BG2 had good combat this would make some sort of logical sense, but in saneland it doesn't.

The biggest money sink I've come across is the luck-stat increasing thing in the tower of almost certain death. I did clear out the shop of the AoE stones.

The store should at least provide the basic weapons to gear your characters towards their builds. I might have made adrianna a dual wield if I new about main gauches. I didn't get my first ranged weapon drop until the zone after getting the skull.
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October 4th, 2011, 06:02
Yeah as I said it's one thing if magic weapons are only found in dungeons. But when basic mundane armor can only be found in dungeons that's a bit more silly. Plus it's just fun to be able to buy stuff. Equipment shopping is a classic staple of the RPG for a reason.
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October 4th, 2011, 19:40
The role-model for Dirk … is Dirk !!!



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October 4th, 2011, 20:14
Originally Posted by fadedc View Post
Yeah as I said it's one thing if magic weapons are only found in dungeons. But when basic mundane armor can only be found in dungeons that's a bit more silly. Plus it's just fun to be able to buy stuff. Equipment shopping is a classic staple of the RPG for a reason.
I seem to have the opposite opinion on the matter; I prefer to earn the best loot through quests and exploration, and I find the buying of gear to feel far less satisfying. I think a mix of both is probably the best solution, and it's certainly doable: Have shops that contain a solid. diverse selection of gear, but leave the rarest, most powerful/unique items out in the world to be earned. It sounds like FK takes the approach that I prefer, which is to find the best gear through gameplay and exploration.
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October 4th, 2011, 20:16
I know my impressions about the game not worth much since there're nice and detailed reviews on both RPGWatch and Gamebanshee. But I just wanted to share my thoughts with you with my relatively limited gameplay. I bought the game the first day it was released, but had not find a chance to play it until last weekend.

Wizardry 8 is one of my all time favourite RPGs and because of Frayed Knights' resemblance to this classic, FK have stolen my heart easily. I find the RPG and combat system deep and complex. Endurance-Exhaustion-Drama mechanics really balance the gameplay and present the player new challenges to take into consideration. I admit I'm one of these "save-load frequently" fellow and this Drama system makes me think twice before reload my previous save (other thing that makes me think twice is the long loading screens). Also, to keep in mind this brilliant "endurance-exhaustion" system pushes me to think new strategies.

I'm not really fond of random encounters (except few games like Wizardry series of course), but I like the system used in FK. At least I can see the enemies from a distance and decide whether or not to engage them. Also, the random encounters in "Search" mechanic really fits the challenge. You may search whereever you please, but at your own risk. By the way, I can't understand search feature much. I couldn't find the hidden item in the first dungeon in a room. It said I'm very close to it (1) but I couldn't find the right place although I spent quite some time trying to find it. I even took a feat to increase searching but no avail.

I don't know if there's any level scaling in the game, but according to what I've seen so far it doesn't have any. Which is a complete plus for an old school gamer like me. By the way, I find the combat more close to M&M series than Wizardry. It's deep and offer many tactics, but at the same time quite fast if you're engaging with standart enemies. My only complaint about the combat is I can't see how much experience point I earned after each battle. You can see every dice rolling in the background on the message screen, but can't see the exp points. I hope Jay will add that with the next patch.

Graphics are enough for a gamer like me who still thinks Wizardry 8, Wizards&Warriors and Might&Magic 6-7-8's graphics are good enough. I like the dungeon's graphical design. Monster graphics and animations are nice, and fit quite well with the game's light hearted atmosphere. But, there are some inconsistencies. Like some of the NPC faces look so amateurish. I can't make much comment on sounds because there isn't much ambient sound or such. Also didn't like the music much and I have to admit I turned down the speaker volume after a while.

I love the game's humorous atmosphere. Party banter between each other or with objects or NPCs really add much personality to characters like we used to in Bioware games. Also love the old-school item description when we click on objects in the game world like in IE games. I'm reading every item, journal, monster description and they're both educative and humorous at the same time.

I recommend Frayed Knights to every gamer who're still waiting desperately for Wizardry 9 or Might&Magic 10. This's the old school game that we were dreaming for quite some time. I hope Jay will sell enough copies to guarantee the other two games in the trilogy and FK will shine as a great example to other developers who need courage to make old school RPGs.

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