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Default Dark Souls - A Game For Adults @ Bitmob

October 19th, 2011, 22:16
Bitmob submitted this article on Dark Souls, which is a game we probably should have covered but not being a console game, just didn't register with me. Here's the opening of Dark Souls: A Game For Adults.
Realizing that I may not be ready to proceed farther in this skeleton-infested graveyard, I turn back and walk up the staircase protruding from the mountainside. The hollow warriors and soldiers guarding this pass are much easier opponents, and I now know that the Undead Burg is a more appropriate direction for the time being.
Here, one of the first enemies lobs an easily avoidable firebomb, which cues me to two things: I should be wary of overhead adversaries, and I should plan to increase my fire defense soon. At no point does a tool-tip pop-up forcibly pause the action and explain exactly what I need to do (even the tutorial’s control explanations are entirely optional). Dark Souls understands — no, expects — that I’m smart enough to figure these things out on my own.
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October 19th, 2011, 22:16
I played some of it's predecessor, Demon's Souls. It walks the fine line between punishing difficulty and frustration. It's probably one of the most difficult games I have ever played, though that does make getting through the level all the more satisfying. My son gave up on it, getting frustrated with dying so often. When you die it starts you at the beginning of the level again, so expect to replay through the same area multiple times. It was a fun hack and slash, but you will die many, many times.

I will probably pick this one up at some point after it has been out for a while, since I am anticipating being tied up playing Skyrim for quite some time soon.
Last edited by Xian; October 20th, 2011 at 00:38.
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October 19th, 2011, 22:19
He talks too much about how the game is for adults and fails to really describe various features of the game aside from the fact that it doesn't hold your hand.

If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?
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October 19th, 2011, 22:44
Sorry, but until I have my copy I don't want to read nothing about it… This is my potential GOTY, and I want to play it with no spoliers at all .
As soon as I can, I'll try to do a 'review' of this game for RPGWatch .
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October 19th, 2011, 22:53
Originally Posted by TheMadGamer View Post
He talks too much about how the game is for adults
I fail to see why the article has this headline at all ?

Is this going to be

action RPGs -> adults
everything else = kiddies
old school RPGs -> whiners/Grufties (German slang term for expressing that someone "is just too old for dancing/gaming"sports/whatever youngsters like to do" - I guess this term has now also been occupied by Gothic fans ?)


???

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October 19th, 2011, 23:05
adults is not equal to mature adults

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October 19th, 2011, 23:18
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
I fail to see why the article has this headline at all ?
Probably because "Dark Souls: A Game with Challenging Combat" wasn't likely to result in as many page views.
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October 20th, 2011, 01:35
I tried this game but gave up due to frustration. I could handle the frustration of dying a billion times but not the frustration at having to replay over and over and over and over the same areas due to the lack of nearly enough save locations. It's a game for adults in that it doesn't hold your hand and give you easy pointers on where to go next — I'm fine with that — but it's not a game for adults who have limited amount of time (and patience) to deal with playing the same areas over and over. Unfortunately unfun.
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October 20th, 2011, 02:39
I'm still liking Demons souls more. And the discussion about difficulty concerning both games is overdone, they're at most challenging at times. They just have a solid uncompromising system.
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October 20th, 2011, 02:47
I haven't had a chance to play Dark Souls or Demon Souls yet, as I don't happen to own any consoles; however, I generally enjoy games a bit more when combat is challenging to the point where I die quite frequently

I have installed mods for Oblivion and Fallout New Vegas such as Arwen's Realism Tweaks, FCOM, Duke Patrick's, etc., and as a result I find that I die a couple of times at almost every combat encounter. It takes hours to get through even the smallest dungeons and I have to approach enemies very cautiously.

However, I'm saving frequently, and the game is installed on SSD, so death is just a few seconds delay to reload the last save.

In the case of Hard Reset, I highly enjoyed the old school checkpoint system, but I got stuck in one area that I have replayed dozens of times and I have not been able to beat since I started playing on the game's release date. It is quite frustrating, but at the same time, I'm sure I will enjoy a tremendous feeling of accomplishment/false pride/etc., when I finally beat the checkpoint in question.

If a PC port for either of these games is ever released, I will certainly be interested, although I might have to dial the difficulty down.
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October 20th, 2011, 05:58
Both games are great, and I think a lot of CRPG fans would enjoy them both. Personally, I think both are closer to CRPGs/WRPGs than JRPGs, as the focus is on open exploration, challenging DIY gameplay, and personal decisions. The fact that most NPCs (including vendors!) can get attacked and killed is a testament to this.

I will say this though - don't expect a story. Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are all about the gameplay. There is less a story.. and more a general atmosphere and theme. I think that element is great, but don't expect either of these games to really do more than give broad goals.
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October 20th, 2011, 09:05
I'm not a big fan of referring to this game as an "adult" game. It's just a different approach that has nothing to do with maturity.

I really love a challenge, and this game is great for that - but it's not like there aren't drawbacks.

I think it should be possible to praise this kind of game, without putting down those people who don't like it.
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October 20th, 2011, 10:02
Loved Demons Souls and I'm expecting Dark Souls to arrive on my doorstep any day now. It will be arriving with H6 but I dont think that will be getting much attention for a while.

Hopefully you can still quickly quit the game when you die so you dont lose all your souls and you reload at your last save. Yes it was probably cheating but I dont care. Made the game alot less stressful.
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October 20th, 2011, 10:04
Originally Posted by NFLed View Post
I tried this game but gave up due to frustration. I could handle the frustration of dying a billion times but not the frustration at having to replay over and over and over and over the same areas due to the lack of nearly enough save locations.
Everytime I wanted to save I'd just go into my inventory and get out. It's as easy as that to save.
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October 20th, 2011, 11:17
Originally Posted by killias2 View Post
Both games are great, and I think a lot of CRPG fans would enjoy them both. Personally, I think both are closer to CRPGs/WRPGs than JRPGs, as the focus is on open exploration, challenging DIY gameplay, and personal decisions. The fact that most NPCs (including vendors!) can get attacked and killed is a testament to this.
Demon's Souls definitely doesn't have open exploration, at least not much of it. So Dark Souls is truly "open" then? It was hard to tell in the videos I've seen. One of the things I didn't like about Demon's Souls was how linear it was, but I was thinking about giving Dark Souls a try.
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October 20th, 2011, 11:22
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Demon's Souls definitely doesn't have open exploration, at least not much of it. So Dark Souls is truly "open" then? It was hard to tell in the videos I've seen. One of the things I didn't like about Demon's Souls was how linear it was, but I was thinking about giving Dark Souls a try.
I've only played for a few hours, but it certainly seems very open. Right after the starter area - you're dumped in a place with several paths to take - and I just picked one…
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October 20th, 2011, 11:29
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I've only played for a few hours, but it certainly seems very open. Right after the starter area - you're dumped in a place with several paths to take - and I just picked one…
Sounds good.. post some further impressions later if you will. I'm taking a serious look at DS, but I still don't know if it's worth the $60+ for me. I've got a lot of games on my plate right now.
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October 20th, 2011, 11:34
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Sounds good.. post some further impressions later if you will. I'm taking a serious look at DS, but I still don't know if it's worth the $60+ for me. I've got a lot of games on my plate right now.
I'm going to have to wait until vacation time to dive into it, as it's the kind of game that requires almost total dedication. That much I can promise you.

It's not the kind of game you want as a "go-to" game, so I recommend you wait until you don't really have much in the way of distractions.

You kinda build a skill-set required to defeat enemies and such, and you'd only be frustrated if you went back and forth between games.

Also, it's a big game (most people say 50-60 hours+) - so you can't expect to finish it in a few days.

Just my two cents….
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October 20th, 2011, 17:45
It's pretty open. Large areas that seem like they are the natural path forwards turn out to be optional. There are almost always several different directions you can head, but that doesn't mean you'll actually be capable of taking them all on. It's a bit like Gothics in that way, you can find enemies that will outright slaughter you very close the starting area (after you get out of the tutorial area, anyway).

It's definitely a game that is the opposite of 'dumbed down'. Not only is there not a quest marker, there isn't even an in-game map. You have to actually learn the layout of the world and navigate in your head. As for saving, the game is constantly saving. If your console crashes, you lose no progress. If you die, you re-spawn at the nearest bonfire minus souls and humanity. You have to redo areas a lot, but the point of the game is perfecting each section, learning how to defeat each enemy, deal with each tricky environment - you learn from every death. Bonfires are actually never that far apart, and you will often unlock shortcuts. You probably never have to replay more than about 5 minutes to get back to where you died, provided you remember how to get back there. Learning the quickest path through an area is an important skill.

Dark Souls is an RPG, it has factions, and you have a choice in how you resolve the game's plot, such as it is. Joining certain factions can mean that certain bosses become friendly and thus optional. You can go around murdering all the merchants if you want, and some of them will drop useful and/or expensive things, but you lose access to them for the rest of the game. It's different, but in my mind definitely an RPG. The game play is seriously good, and the world building is great. The monster design is often inspired, too. It is definitely one of the very best melee combat systems in any game.
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October 20th, 2011, 22:06
Every description makes this game sound like 90% of the focus is combat. Not my type of game, unless there's more depth than has been discussed. Combat is something to try new skills, loot, stats, on. If it's the main focus of a game, the game generally won't work for me. I hate Mount and Blade, for instance. It's a medieval combat simulator, not a game; at least in my book.

I'd like to hear numbers on how much non-combat stuff there is to do. They talk about factions, but only in saying that it will allow you to avoid some combats.

'nut
Last edited by crpgnut; October 20th, 2011 at 22:30.
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