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Default Risen 2 - Previews @ Strategy Informer, VG247

October 26th, 2011, 13:59
JDR is nothing if not Johnny-on-the-spot when PB and Arcania are being talked about
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October 26th, 2011, 14:01
Which is Ok of course I like both types and would love to see an Improvement of the Gothic 3 formula (Less repetitiveness, better Combat and more meaty content and well written characters/quest) instead of a more streamlined accessible casual and closed in Risen.
Yeah, that's pretty much my idea of what a "proper" Gothic 3 would be.

Risen was too small and too limited overall.

Risen 2 sounds a lot better, but the shift in focus from "hardcore" to "accessible" is not the kind of thing I'd have chosen for it.

But it's a sensible choice in terms of business.
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October 26th, 2011, 14:08
More accessible perhaps, but I've seen nothing about Risen 2 that leads me to believe it's "streamlined", "casual", or "closed in".
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October 26th, 2011, 14:10
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
More accessible perhaps, but I've seen nothing about Risen 2 that leads me to believe it's "streamlined", "casual", or "closed in".
Oh, I do think it's streamlined to an extent - but no, I wouldn't expect a "casual" or "closed in" experience.

I'm still really eager for its release, but I'm sceptical about what they're planning for future projects.

Not so much because of PB or anything really concrete - but rather due to my experience with the industry and how developers tend to change from one thing to another, as they "evolve".

I doubt I need to bring up examples here
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October 26th, 2011, 14:19
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
More accessible perhaps, but I've seen nothing about Risen 2 that leads me to believe it's "streamlined", "casual", or "closed in".
You probably are right and I am just jumping the gun here (I certainly hope so).

Its just a general feeling I get by the videos, the further reduced movement freedom,
the segmentation of the game world (was in the previous games too a bit, but it seems more forced this time with travel between the Islands needing certain conditions to be allowed etc).

Then there is PB's own professed intent, to be more accessible and easy to newcomers
on some interviews etc.

Hey, maybe I just freak out a bit when I hear the words "accessible" and "we are cutting that feature" for my last few remaining franchises (Risen, Witcher and Stalker is all I am really interested these days apart from a couple of indies)…
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October 26th, 2011, 14:24
Where do you get the impression that movement freedom has been reduced in any way?
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October 26th, 2011, 14:27
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Oh, I do think it's streamlined to an extent - but no, I wouldn't expect a "casual" or "closed in" experience.
Casual is maybe too strong but I meant in context with the experience typical of PB games (same with closed in).

Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Where do you get the impression that movement freedom has been reduced in any way?
Isn't climbing off (except on certain ledges as per the Witcher) ? and swimming was already off by the First Risen… I am just seeing a trend here as DArtagnan also noted.
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October 26th, 2011, 14:29
Originally Posted by JonNik View Post
Gothic 1,2 and Risen are story driven, mostly open world games. Gothic 3 is an almost completely open ended sandbox RPG. The amount of "story" and lore is arguably more
than in the other games, but there is no exposition or narrative whatsoever and certainly not a guided plot/Main quest. You kinda have to dig yourself for what story there is.
Yeah… no.

The thing is Gothic 3 hardly has any lore at all. I don't necesarilly mind open ended stuff, but you still need some content if you want to develop some form of lore and story. In Gothic 3 you learn a bit about the cultures, the god and all… but it's all very superficial. And how could it not?

That might be a dumb thing to say, but you know to get some depth, you still need some actual dialogue, books and thing like that to bring depth. Dialogues in Gothic 3 were all extremly short with even major NPCs often having little more than a couple of liens, cities usually had very few actual NPCs in them and so on.

I could live with a less narrative approach and a less focused plot (hell I love Fallout and Fallout 1&2 are very open ended in their narrative), but for an open ended gameplay to work for me, the game needs to have interesting content - that was not the case in Gothic 3: quests were shallows and very repetitives, NPCs were boring… that's why the game didn't work for me: not because it was an open ended game, but because basically, once you'd have done one city - you've done them all because the whole game feels the same. Now I can understand that people like open ended-ness for the sake of it and that's fine, but I neat more meaty content as you put it, or else I just die of boredom.

To be fair I probably would have enjoyed the game more had it not been a Gothic, but after two great episodes, it felt like they sacrified almost everything that made Gothic great in the altar of open endedness and that's a damn shame consider all the potential you could see from Gothic 2's ending.

I like both types and would love to see an Improvement of the Gothic 3 formula (Less repetitiveness, better Combat and more meaty content and well written characters/quests)
Then we agree . I'd most likley love an improved Gothic 3-like with all that.

-Sergorn
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October 26th, 2011, 14:30
I certainly remember swimming in the Gothics and Risen was already a step towards a more restrictive version of what came before.

But I think it's kinda silly to talk about it when it's not even out yet.

I've seen too many developers go from passionate devotees to the "enthusiast" experience towards the "mainstream" within a few games to ignore the signs, but there's absolutely no way to be sure except by way of the games themselves.

So why don't we just let Risen 2 and what follows show us what's what.
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October 26th, 2011, 14:30
Originally Posted by JonNik View Post
Isn't climbing off (except on certain ledges as per the Witcher) ? and swimming was already off by the First Risen… I am just seeing a trend here as DArtagnan also noted.
There was a brief misunderstanding about climbing being different in Risen 2. It's not. It will be the same as it was in Gothic 1+2 and Risen.


Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I certainly remember swimming in the Gothics and Risen was already a step towards a more restrictive version of what came before.
I assume you meant Gothic 3?
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October 26th, 2011, 14:39
Originally Posted by Sergorn View Post
Yeah… no.

The thing is Gothic 3 hardly has any lore at all. …

… but because basically, once you'd have done one city you've done them all because the whole game feels the same.
Can't really agree with this, sorry. Sure there is some repetitiveness but for me there
is enough character and diversification between the regions and factions in the game.

But yeah the game definetely needed a lot more content for its size and in this
regard PB did indeed bite more than they could chew.

Originally Posted by Sergorn View Post
Yeah… no.
Then we agree . I'd most likley love an improved Gothic 3-like with all that.
-Sergorn
Yep probably the only thing we can agree on

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
So why don't we just let Risen 2 and what follows show us what's what.
Good Idea. But I think that for a first time after Gothic 1 I'll need a Demo first for a PB game.
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October 26th, 2011, 14:44
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
There was a brief misunderstanding about climbing being different in Risen 2. It's not. It will be the same as it was in Gothic 1+2 and Risen.
I am sorry didn't Doberlec reply:
Originally Posted by Doberlec
Climbing: You can climb on ledges on specific spots in the game world.
I also saw a vid when the player was trying to climb to a low house roof (as was possible
in Risen) but couldn't while the Reviewer made it a point to show that you could on a
certain ledge…

Anyway I think I 'll take Dartagnan's advice for now and wait and see.
Back to work for me…
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October 26th, 2011, 14:44
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I assume you meant Gothic 3?
No, I meant Gothic 1 and 2. Risen was basically a lesser, more restrictive version of Gothic 2.

Gothic 3 is the odd one out, and one which PB clearly didn't want to repeat. That it didn't have swimming doesn't exactly take away how ambitious it was otherwise.

Risen is the "new" PB as far as I'm concerned, and if you don't think it shows signs of change and if you don't think PB is doing things differently with Risen 2 - then we just have different interpretations. But it would be nice if you could appreciate that I'm NOT saying Risen 2 will be "casual" or a "mainstream" game. I'm WORRYING that it might be a step towards that - but I don't think it will be in itself such a game.

It's not like anyone in the world is going to convince JDR once he's made up his mind, and we're talking about a game that's not out. We'll have the "answer" served up on a plate in the future - so I suggest we don't bother with further speculation
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October 26th, 2011, 14:55
@JonNik, Yes specific spots.. just like in Gothic 1+2 and Risen.

You couldn't just climb anywhere in those games, it had to be a straight flat edge that you could grab.

Originally Posted by doberlec View Post
Climbing: You can climb on ledges on specific spots in the game world. This is how those ledges look in the game and how climbing will look like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvyXlkju13Q
I could be wrong, but it looks the same to me. Maybe doberlec can confirm it.
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October 26th, 2011, 15:05
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
No, I meant Gothic 1 and 2. Risen was basically a lesser, more restrictive version of Gothic 2.
Er… you said - "I certainly remember swimming in the Gothics and Risen was already a step towards a more restrictive version of what came before."

Before what? I'm just trying to understand what you're talking about.
Did PB develop games prior to Gothic that I'm not aware of? Or are you talking about other open-world games. If so, what games?

It's sad that you had to immediately jump to being argumentive and condescending over a misunderstanding, but I guess it's nothing we haven't seen before.
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October 26th, 2011, 16:11
Originally Posted by vurt View Post
They think that people are tired of seeing the same stuff, at least that's what they've said in interviews.
I have a feeling that first and foremost it was PB guys who were tired of doing the same stuff. Risen was a playing-it-safe venture and, while it was a very good game, it sorta lacked the spark/unique identity/whatever.
Judging by the pirate bits in NotR and Risen, pirate-y stuff has always been something PB had fun doing, so doing the whole game pirate themed not only gives it distinct, unifying identity pretty much right away, it also might´ve been something that infused development with more genuine excitement and creativity.

While personally I´m a bit worried about the extent to which the basic "Gothic formula" has been retained (challenge, lack of hand holding, freedom), I´m really looking forward to Risen 2 anyway, because by now it seems like a fresh experience is almost guaranteed. Voodoo magic, fuck yeah!

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Gothic 3 is the odd one out, and one which PB clearly didn't want to repeat. That it didn't have swimming doesn't exactly take away how ambitious it was otherwise.
Gothic 3 did have swimming. Busted!
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October 26th, 2011, 17:07
I felt risen 1 was a lesser version of the gothics as well, if anything I felt that you were more restricted to coridors (artificially created ways to move) It did not feel as open as the gothic games. It was a fun game, but it wasn't a gothic per say.

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October 26th, 2011, 17:41
Risen did feel a lot smaller, but i can say i got the corridor feel that much except maybe in the tutorial part. I'm glad Risen 2 will be a lot bigger..

DeepO: i don't think they would do something just because they're a bit bored with a certain setting, there's more thought to it than that i think. The success of the PotC movies could've been one thing that have influenced the direction. We saw this with Oblivion for example, which was quite inspired by the LOTR movies (Todd has even mentioned this in interviews).. They even changed the lore (that part of the world is actually a jungle according to the lore) to be more foresty and LOTR like. Probably a very smart move, at least sales wise.
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October 26th, 2011, 19:25
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
I just don't know what PB were thinking taking crystal magic out of the game. What a way to lose a good part of your support base!!
I really didn't like the crystal magic idea. I thought it was kind of bland and boring.

If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?
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October 26th, 2011, 19:43
It was a big letdown, compared to G2. The advantages to becoming a mage in Risen were few and weak. I would hope they would have fixed it in R2, rather than dumping it entirely in the name of innovashun and accessibility. Mass Effect 2 deja vu, anyone?

Until we hear more about this voodoo magic, we'll have to wait to find out of there is a mage path.

If there isn't, I will put R2 on the buy only at $5 list.
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