|
Your continuous donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Skyrim - v1.2 Patch Update

Default Skyrim - v1.2 Patch Update

November 22nd, 2011, 10:51
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Business guys don't give a shit what you're playing, but for what you're paying.
True, but seeing what games have good attach rates helps inform future development directions. Say game A and game B have the same initial sales but game B has 10x the number of players after a month, game B is likely to get more attention in terms of bug fixes (affects the image of the company = more sales of other games from the same people), Expansions and DLC (more people likely to buy it as they're still interested in the game), and future games ("people perceive our last game as 'worth playing a lot' so we're more likely to make money with a sequel because this game is more popular and more fresh in people's minds).
kalniel is offline

kalniel

SasqWatch

#61

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,877

Default 

November 22nd, 2011, 11:01
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
True, but seeing what games have good attach rates helps inform future development directions. Say game A and game B have the same initial sales but game B has 10x the number of players after a month, game B is likely to get more attention in terms of bug fixes (affects the image of the company = more sales of other games from the same people), Expansions and DLC (more people likely to buy it as they're still interested in the game), and future games ("people perceive our last game as 'worth playing a lot' so we're more likely to make money with a sequel because this game is more popular and more fresh in people's minds).
I don't think you take my meaning. It wasn't meant as a 100% literal statement.

Obviously, some people somewhere can find some value in that information, and use those numbers for whatever they want. Suits will probably use it to stroke their egos a bit more - because they made the right investment and use it at some board meeting in the future. But it's completely insignificant compared to the all-important factor.

Don't overestimate the thought-process of businessmen - as they have the clearest of goals. If something sells millions of copies with a huge return, there's going to be another in the same vein if they can find a developer they can trust to accomplish it.

With Todd Howard and crew, they have as much of a winning formula as you can get in the gaming industry. At least, as long as they don't get sick of making the same kind of game over and over.

You can take that to the bank.

Whatever else they may include in their decision-making process is absolutely tiny in comparison to that simple fact of life.

If you really want to believe that active players on Steam will somehow influence the certainty of another TES - then I can't take that away.

I just happen to disagree
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#62

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 13,941

Default 

November 22nd, 2011, 11:31
Disagreement is fine. But just as you extol me not to overestimate business people, I'll ask you not to underestimate them either. The guys at the top of the best companies got there because they're the best in the business (in most cases), and they'll use any and all information to model the market.
kalniel is offline

kalniel

SasqWatch

#63

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,877

Default 

November 22nd, 2011, 11:39
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
Disagreement is fine. But just as you extol me not to overestimate business people, I'll ask you not to underestimate them either. The guys at the top of the best companies got there because they're the best in the business (in most cases), and they'll use any and all information to model the market.
I'm not talking about the people, but the thought process. Maybe overestimate is the wrong word, as I'm not talking about a quality as such. Rather, the concept of responding correctly in business-terms in this scenario is incredibly simple.

When you have a clear goal with a clear path towards it, the "smart" thought process is not necessarily a complex one. Indeed, I'd say the reverse is often the case.

I don't overestimate or underestimate strangers as individuals, because I don't know them.

Smart people exist everywhere - and business people are no different.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#64

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 13,941

Default 

November 22nd, 2011, 13:12
Just browsed the TES forums. Seems a LOT of people are now crashing much more often post-patch.

Obviously, it has something to do with Steam - but I find it somewhat puzzling.

Makes you wonder how Steam affects other games. I've heard plenty of people claim instability when in online-mode, but I dismissed them as placebo. As much as I hate the client, I still don't see how it could affect games that much.

I suspect it's specific to Skyrim, though, because the game is notoriously unstable with alt-tabbing - and I'd estimate the "overlay" from Steam has a similar effect on the game. But, I'm none too sure.

But at least it casts some well-deserved light on that horrible client.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#65

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 13,941

Default 

November 22nd, 2011, 13:32
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I suspect it's specific to Skyrim, though, because the game is notoriously unstable with alt-tabbing - and I'd estimate the "overlay" from Steam has a similar effect on the game. But, I'm none too sure.

But at least it casts some well-deserved light on that horrible client.
That's interesting. Skyrim is getting some notoriety for being stable with alt-tabbing, not unstable. It's certainly one of the most stable games I have for that, to the point where I now routinely leave junk open in the background and happily alt-tab in and out. Maybe that explains why I've not had a crash yet, even always using Steam.

So either I've got something in my computer setup that's mitigating a crash scenario (it's fast enough to avoid a time out somewhere?) or other people have something in their computer that's causing a compatibility issue or exasperating a time out problem. The joy of PC gaming

(I have seen a fairly steady trickle of page file activity while playing Skyrim, which is unusual given the low RAM usage, I know pagefile is something some people disable, which could cause stability issues if the engine prefers to use it. Likewise I have my pagefile on an SSD (unlike the game files), so any queries are more or less instantaneous, which might be aiding stability/alt-tabbing use).
kalniel is offline

kalniel

SasqWatch

#66

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,877

Default 

November 22nd, 2011, 13:38
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
That's interesting. Skyrim is getting some notoriety for being stable with alt-tabbing, not unstable. It's certainly one of the most stable games I have for that, to the point where I now routinely leave junk open in the background and happily alt-tab in and out. Maybe that explains why I've not had a crash yet, even always using Steam.

So either I've got something in my computer setup that's mitigating a crash scenario (it's fast enough to avoid a time out somewhere?) or other people have something in their computer that's causing a compatibility issue or exasperating a time out problem. The joy of PC gaming
Well, it crashes invariably when I alt-tab, and I've seen plenty of people reporting the same thing on forums. Oblivion also reacted very badly to alt-tabbing, but I can't immediately recall how Fallout 3/NV reacted. I suspect it's the same thing.

My machine is also quite capable, I should say - so it's likely about something else.

Also, some people seem to be playing it in windowed mode (for reasons beyond me) - and that should help stability in that way quite a bit.

(I have seen a fairly steady trickle of page file activity while playing Skyrim, which is unusual given the low RAM usage, I know pagefile is something some people disable, which could cause stability issues if the engine prefers to use it. Likewise I have my pagefile on an SSD (unlike the game files), so any queries are more or less instantaneous, which might be aiding stability/alt-tabbing use).
Well, since the game is supposedly limited to 2GB of memory usage according to various tweak-sites, one wouldn't think it would want a pagefile.

I have 12GB of memory and I've disabled the pagefile. I wouldn't be surprised if the game somehow liked the existence of a pagefile, but if so - why only when alt-tabbing?
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#67

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 13,941

Default 

November 22nd, 2011, 13:42
Also, I assume the people getting the crashes have tried disabling the Steam overlay?
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#68

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 13,941

Default 

November 22nd, 2011, 13:52
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
According to posts on Beth forums, crashes are worse now.
I don't have crashes (well not yet), but since the update I get awful framerates in places where it used to run fine before the update. I didn't change my option, but I did lose my 2gb+ large address awareness fix.

There is one place in the Thieve Guild that drop me down to slideshow mode if I look at a specific spot. Really annoying.
azarhal is offline

azarhal

SasqWatch
RPGWatch Donor

#69

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,416

Default 

November 22nd, 2011, 13:57
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Well, since the game is supposedly limited to 2GB of memory usage according to various tweak-sites, one wouldn't think it would want a pagefile.

I have 12GB of memory and I've disabled the pagefile. I wouldn't be surprised if the game somehow liked the existence of a pagefile, but if so - why only when alt-tabbing?
There's quite a few games out there that require a pagefile even if they shouldn't have a need for it, but when alt-tabbing there's especially high activity in conjunction with Windows' supercache in Vista/7 as it tries to shuffle around data to meet the possible requirements of active applications and pre-emptively cache profile matching data.

Try enabling a pagefile and see if it helps perhaps?
kalniel is offline

kalniel

SasqWatch

#70

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,877

Default 

November 22nd, 2011, 14:01
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
There's quite a few games out there that require a pagefile even if they shouldn't have a need for it, but when alt-tabbing there's especially high activity in conjunction with Windows' supercache in Vista/7 as it tries to shuffle around data to meet the possible requirements of active applications and pre-emptively cache profile matching data.

Try enabling a pagefile and see if it helps perhaps?
I've disabled Superfetch, so that's not the reason. Oh, I know there are rumors going around the net about the pagefile interfering with all kinds of games, but I've never actually seen any concrete evidence to that effect. In my experience, about 999 out of a 1000 claims about technical matters related to tweaking your PC most efficiently, are placebo-related or misinformation

Still, I guess I could try enabling the pagefile and noticing how the game reacts.

It should be said, though, that I'm running Skyrim through a RadeonPro profile (tweaked), for performance reasons. I suspect it might have something to do with that, except I didn't use such software when playing Oblivion.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#71

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 13,941

Default 

November 22nd, 2011, 14:21
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I've disabled Superfetch, so that's not the reason. Oh, I know there are rumors going around the net about the pagefile interfering with all kinds of games, but I've never actually seen any concrete evidence to that effect. In my experience, about 999 out of a 1000 claims about technical matters related to tweaking your PC most efficiently, are placebo-related or misinformation
So why did you disable your pagefile (and superfetch for that matter) rather than using the Microsoft recommended/default settings?

(I do know that I've had games like Falcon 4 refuse to launch without a pagefile). I used to disable it on XP but it seems to be a boon on Win 7, rather than a hinderance. Same with superfetch actually.
kalniel is offline

kalniel

SasqWatch

#72

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,877

Default 

November 22nd, 2011, 14:31
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
So why did you disable your pagefile (and superfetch for that matter) again?
I've disabled it for the same reason I'm an agnostic. Just because I don't see any evidence whatsoever, doesn't mean I can't remain open-minded. On the off-chance that some game or application might prefer to use my pagefile rather than my physical memory, I'd rather have it disabled and respond if the game is unstable or doesn't behave.

I've had little use for alt-tabbing in Skyrim - and I generally don't alt-tab in any game. I've learned that a lot of games SEEM friendly to it, but then they start to become unstable or delayed after a while. So I generally avoid it.

Should be pretty obvious

As for Superfetch, I prefer not having superfluous processes optimising load-times when the gain is trivial. I recommend Superfetch to people using their computer for work or who launch the same set of applications over and over again. But since I tend to launch only a single game at a time, I don't find much use in the initial load being optimised.

If you like your browser to start up slightly faster or whatever, I guess I can see the point.

But overall, the gain is minimal for me - personally - and since I can't be certain it doesn't interfere with my gaming, I prefer it to be disabled. It seems to provoke a lot of excessive harddisk activity at strange times. Me no likey.

That said, I mostly disable it out of habit - because I didn't always have 12 gigs of memory available. Superfetch reserves around 500 megs pr. default for its optimised loading (or it did in the beginning, at least) - and I didn't want that to interfere with anything.

I feel the same way about file-indexing, which is also disabled. It's 100% irrelevant to my needs. But it's great for work.

(I do know that I've had games like Falcon 4 refuse to launch without a pagefile). I used to disable it on XP but it seems to be a boon on Win 7, rather than a hinderance. Same with superfetch actually.
Well, Falcon 4 is ancient - and did use a shit-ton of memory during the dynamic campaign. It sounds reasonable that they wanted to ensure people had enough memory for that growth.

Still, not something I've personally experienced.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#73

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 13,941

Default 

November 22nd, 2011, 14:45
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I've disabled it for the same reason I'm an agnostic. Just because I don't see any evidence whatsoever, doesn't mean I can't remain open-minded. On the off-chance that some game or application might prefer to use my pagefile rather than my physical memory, I'd rather have it disabled and respond if the game is unstable or doesn't behave.
Sounds like a personal preference for instability/bad behaviour I know what you mean though - I used to like to think I was in control of things rather than leaving it to the application/windows, but that was in the era of strange decisions. For the vast majority of things Windows 7 is best left to its own devices, so I've (grudgingly) let it get on with it's own thing, and the result has been an increase in stability I think

But overall, the gain is minimal for me - personally - and since I can't be certain it doesn't interfere with my gaming, I prefer it to be disabled. It seems to provoke a lot of excessive harddisk activity at strange times. Me no likey.
Again, fair enough. Though since switching to an SSD for my most commonly used applications I no longer have a concern about hard disk thrashing, it's all blissfully instant and silent (besides, I think win 7 disables superfetch automatically for SSDs). If you do have an SSD though I'd highly recommend using it for the pagefile (as per Windows default) - then it acts as a very fast cache between ram and hard drive.

Well, Falcon 4 is ancient - and did use a shit-ton of memory during the dynamic campaign. It sounds reasonable that they wanted to ensure people had enough memory for that growth.
There was a hard coded check for pagefile size if I remember, regardless of amount memory available.
kalniel is offline

kalniel

SasqWatch

#74

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,877

Default 

November 22nd, 2011, 15:02
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
Sounds like a personal preference for instability/bad behaviour I know what you mean though - I used to like to think I was in control of things rather than leaving it to the application/windows, but that was in the era of strange decisions. For the vast majority of things Windows 7 is best left to its own devices, so I've (grudgingly) let it get on with it's own thing, and the result has been an increase in stability I think
Well, considering my setup is rock solid and has been for years - I don't think I will let the placebo delusions of others interfere

Just kidding. It's just personal preference.

You feel better letting Windows handle everything in the default way, which means you trust Microsoft to consider the needs of an enthusiast gamer enough to not bother with tweaks.

That's your choice

Again, fair enough. Though since switching to an SSD for my most commonly used applications I no longer have a concern about hard disk thrashing, it's all blissfully instant and silent (besides, I think win 7 disables superfetch automatically for SSDs). If you do have an SSD though I'd highly recommend using it for the pagefile (as per Windows default) - then it acts as a very fast cache between ram and hard drive.
If I one day feel the urge to make a new pagefile in a permanent way, I'll certainly consider it

I'm not particularly concerned with the excessive activity, I just don't like it when it's not needed.

It's not that I think Superfetch will make much of a difference either way, really. But I'm the sort of person who tends to go without things when I don't see the need for them.

There was a hard coded check for pagefile size if I remember, regardless of amount memory available.
If I ever come across something like that in a modern game, I'll reconsider
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#75

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 13,941

Default 

November 22nd, 2011, 16:35
Falcon 4 is modern, damnit
kalniel is offline

kalniel

SasqWatch

#76

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,877

Default 

November 24th, 2011, 10:48
Crashing has become quite a problem for me the last few days. It's now crashing roughly once per hour, which gets rather annoying in a game I've played 135 hours. The first 50 were fine, the next 50 had a bunch of crashes, the last 35 had crashes roughly every hour. I'll probably end up with a total played time of about 200 hours, maybe a little less, and I don't want another 65 crashes.

I find that crashing mostly occurs during bigger battles - dragons, Stormcloak/Legion, etc.

And no, it has nothing to do with hardware, the rig is more than solid enough. I've got the highest setting without any glitches or FPS loss beyond the crashes.
Maylander is offline

Maylander

SasqWatch

#77

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen
Posts: 5,305
Send a message via MSN to Maylander

Default 

November 24th, 2011, 10:55
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Crashing has become quite a problem for me the last few days. It's now crashing roughly once per hour, which gets rather annoying in a game I've played 135 hours. The first 50 were fine, the next 50 had a bunch of crashes, the last 35 had crashes roughly every hour. I'll probably end up with a total played time of about 200 hours, maybe a little less, and I don't want another 65 crashes.

I find that crashing mostly occurs during bigger battles - dragons, Stormcloak/Legion, etc.

And no, it has nothing to do with hardware, the rig is more than solid enough. I've got the highest setting without any glitches or FPS loss beyond the crashes.
How you tried the "mythical" LAA patch that everyone claims helps crashes?
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#78

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 13,941

Default 

November 25th, 2011, 10:10
No, I haven't. I generally prefer to stay away from user made content this early after the release of a game, as it tends to be rather unstable, but I might have to try the patch - the crashing is getting somewhat annoying.
Maylander is offline

Maylander

SasqWatch

#79

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen
Posts: 5,305
Send a message via MSN to Maylander

Default 

November 28th, 2011, 03:26
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Just browsed the TES forums. Seems a LOT of people are now crashing much more often post-patch.
Didn't crash once in 40 hrs of playing pre patch. Since patch CTD twice today.

As for steam I was a huge impulse fan but steam finally won me over and converted over this year. I do not find the client that resource hoggy vs Impulse for the most part. I DO like the face the DRM on Impulse is far LESS then Steam (I can play all my games via impulse without impulse running) but aside from that no other issues with Steam.

-Harlequin
Admin of World of Darkness News
News & Community site for the WoD MMORPG
http://www.wodnews.net
Harlequin is offline

Harlequin

Harlequin's Avatar
Watchdog

#80

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 209
Send a message via Yahoo to Harlequin
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Skyrim - v1.2 Patch Update
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:53.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch