Witcher 2: Not really enjoying it so far…

Originally Posted by Pessimeister
Perhaps I'll only be able to really appreciate this point after checking out how divergent the two paths via all of the various causes and consequences are; then seeing the branching in the story.

But to be honest, I don't think asking for one or two more neutral options at least in key quests is asking for that much given that the first game certainly catered for this position.

Dhruin sums it up well. After a certain point, you'll begin to understand how much work went into the two paths, and the multiple choices within those paths.

TW2 is almost like two games in one, that's how different the paths are. A "neutral" path would essentially be asking for 33% more work.

Originally Posted by Dhruin
- the skill tree? Are we honestly saying the pathetic, non-existent character differentiation in the first game is better?

Nope but this super simplified one is not exactly a shining example either. The first one was only "bad" as you describe it simply because game and talent point balancing allowed you to practically get everything by the end… That was what should have been rectified not "distill" the system to extinction…

Originally Posted by JDR13
TW2 is almost like two games in one, that's how different the paths are. A "neutral" path would essentially be asking for 33% more work.

True, But it was a rather small game so perhaps it is not a totally unreasonable request.
Anyway this is getting a bit academic at this point

Originally Posted by JonNik
True, But it was a rather small game so perhaps it is not a totally unreasonable request.

It is unreasonable .
The thing is, you sorta have the way to act "neutral" throughout the game already.
During the major branch at the end of the first chapter Geralt can be roleplayed as someone who just uses Roche or Iorveth as means to pursue Letho/Triss. Siding with one of them does not necessarily mean Geralt subscribes under their ideologies, such thing is not forced upon him, afair.
In the later chapters one can to some degree nuance Geralt´s involvement and stance towards all the politics around and I think the very last encounter in the game wrapped the "unpolitical"-dude-caught-in-politics aspect nicely.
Ok, having a third major branch would be cool if it wouldn´t compromise quality of the content, but the fact that there are only two does not mean the game doesn´t have a place for neutrality, it´s just organically woven within.


As for TW1/TW2, I sorta summed what I think a while ago in the other thread, so a repost :

Originally Posted by DeepO
At least among the people who liked the first game, I wouldn´t be surprised if there´s actually a bit more of those who consider it overall a better game than the sequel.
I really enjoyed the second game as well, but if I was forced to choose I´d go with the first one. Without going into specifics, the first game is a "classic" for me, whereas the second one, while certainly being a worthy successor of the first and whose continuation I´m looking forward to, is "just" a very good one.

Going more into specifics, part of the above may stem from the fact I didn´t mind and actually quite liked the combat in the original so its somewhat better iteration (at least on the action side) in the sequel didn´t make much of a difference to my enjoyment of both games. I honestly didn´t find much flaws in other game aspects of the original, while I was quite constantly stumbling upon flaws in the sequel - granted, most of these were fairly minor, but it adds up.
The original felt more open and more personal, while in the sequel, despite the C&C stuff, it felt more like you´re sorta taken on a ride without much time to breathe. I´ve also found the original´s atmosphere overall more engaging - the sequel has undoubtedly better graphics, but the art direction in the original is at least as good and it has much better soundtrack and music plays quite a major role in constituting atmosphere in a game for me.
The fourth chapter of the original was something really special.

Speaking of personal, I think the devs missed a major opportunity in this regard when they chose to make discovering Geralt´s past/identity completely non-interactive and independent on player´s choices. It didn´t work this way in the original and I´ve found it quite poignant/cool that the quest was never moved into completed ones in the journal. That it didn´t continue in a similar manner in the sequel and the concept wasn´t expanded upon was quite a big disappointment for me.

I love all the political intrigue in the sequel, branching in the story, visuals or the game´s down to earth ending and Roche just plain rulez, but at the end of the day, the first one was simply a more memorable experience for me overall.

Originally Posted by Pessimeister
Little details not carrying over from the first game. Such as having fought Zdenek once before (and the game not recognising it) or more importantly the relationship I had Geralt forge with Shani.

That Shani bit is indeed annoying - it was a major part of the first game and wasn´t really wrapped up there, thus the total omission in the sequel renders it pretty much pointless in retrospect and as far as potential replays go.
And I don´t think it even required that much work to address it sufficiently without complicating the sequel´s storyline. Some additional dialogue with Dandelion and Zoltan and few differences in the Triss relationship might´ve been enough.

Originally Posted by Pessimeister
Given that these stories are based on novels and established lore, this all kind of makes sense and is easily explained and rationalised but the lack of acknowledgement seems to distance the player from the ability to shape/customise Geralt from a role-playing perspective.

Yeah and it sorta ties to what I´ve mentioned in the repost - the past/identity thing.
In the third game they probably intend the more personal part of the storyline to revolve around the past foreshadowed in some of the second game´s vignettes and I really hope they will take an ambiguous route in this regard. The past may be set in stone in the books, but it doesn´t have to be in the game.
That they´ll allow players to deal with its consequences in different ways is likely granted, but I´d like to be able to also interpret the past events (as in, what and why really happened) in more than one way.
For me, all those snapshots of past events without any player´s input rather diminished a feeling of Geralt being a player´s character.

Originally Posted by Dhruin
- I don't understand the desire to run an "out of the box" condition at all - they improved things for a reason.

I think I've already covered my thoughts adequately on this topic. However, I will try a slightly different angle: Why do people purchase and play brand new (and thus unpatched) games? That's essentially the out of the box experience. I mean why do they do that, really? Why don't they wait for a patch? (yes, I'm being a wee bit facetious…)

Again…I don't trust the changes in the 2.0 update and have had no crashes or bugs with the game as it is…so yeah, we'll just leave it at that. If I run into a problem, it'll be my own fault ok?

Originally Posted by Dhruin
- the skill tree? Are we honestly saying the pathetic, non-existent character differentiation in the first game is better?

I'm not sure about the 'we' part, or if it's objectively better, at the moment I just like it more.
In my three Witcher playthroughs I was able to focus on different skill set specialities each time. Sure, it's basically the same character and often you end up spending talents on some superfluous skills, (especially if you're going for a sign heavy build) but I appreciated having to consider stats (str/int/dex/stam) as well as considering where to put talents at different stages in the game. I also quite like the sword stances and their skill seperation.

As another mini-update on my Witcher 2 playthrough:
I've just finished the fantastic section of the game in chapter two where you obtain the dream crystals and examine them, whilst battling through a veritable demonic horde of Harpies. This was a fun and well designed quest in concept and atmosphere. I even had an amusing epiphany when fleeing from at least 10 of these feathered screaming hell-queens, because with all the fleeing, bomb dropping, igni casting and plain ol' hacking and slashing, I'd made it all the way back to the shack of the fellow who gives you the quest for harpy feathers! There. Side-Fetch quest complete.

Finally - just have to say - wonderful post there DeepO. Posts like that is one of many reasons I like coming this place. Thanks for sharing the thoughts; the repost in particular was a true pleasure to read. Whilst I think some of what you say about the neutral perspective can be seen as a perceptive yet semantic interpretation of events, I definitely found myself nodding and agreeing with you more than not. Watch out for possibly hinty spoilery stuff though, k?

No doubt my views on these matters are still in formation and bound to change as I continue to progress through the game.

Originally Posted by DeepO
Siding with one of them does not necessarily mean Geralt subscribes under their ideologies, such thing is not forced upon him, afair.
In the later chapters one can to some degree nuance Geralt´s involvement and stance towards all the politics around and I think the very last encounter in the game wrapped the "unpolitical"-dude-caught-in-politics aspect nicely.

Also generally true for #1 though too

Anyway I naturally agree on most of the points you raised on your repost. The flashback thing didn't particularly register as a negative while playing, but I must admit you are right and it was better handled in #1.

Strangely this discussion has somehow ameliorated my feelings towards the Sequel and I am more looking forward to my Roche path replay… (Go figure )

It is in the end a very Good game, but for now Skyrim beckons…

There was a decidedly short but telling dialogue with Iorveth on Witcher neutrality where he asks Geralt, how he manages to find himself supporting him at this moment. (In chapter 2)

Geralt says something like "Things were different then, things change, allies change…"

This is the most/closest I've got so far on the subject, but hopefully the theme comes up again in some shape or form.

I'm most definitely enjoying the game more now than I was initially, but I can't help but anticipate/dread the next batch of QTE and boss encounters.