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December 2nd, 2011, 09:52
Bethsoft has posted an update on the Bethblog titled Skyrim - what we're working on. The article explains the Creation Kit should be released in January, more updates are planned with a faster turnaround - particularly for the PC - and you will be able to use Steam Workshop to manage mods. Some snips on each bit:
Creation Kit — Beginning in January, PC players will be able to download for free the same development tools we used at Bethesda Game Studios to create Skyrim. In tandem with the Creation Kit’s release, we will roll out a new Wiki and videos to help you get started. It also features something we think you’re going to love…
Steam Workshop – We’re excited to share news that we’ve been working closely with Valve to integrate Steam Workshop into the Creation Kit. Using the Workshop, you’ll have free user content with the push of a button. The Creation Kit will bundle your mod and upload it to the Workshop, where everyone can browse, rate, and flag mods for download. You’ll be able to do this from any web device, including your smartphone. Like a live Netflix queue, when you fire up Skyrim, mods you flagged will be automatically downloaded and installed. Everyone here is really excited about the opportunities and possibilities this opens up for our entire community.
Prefer to use existing modding sites? Not a problem. You’ll still be able to upload/share/access Skyrim mods on fan-created mod sites.
Continued Game Updates – This week we released update 1.2 across all platforms, and we’ll be releasing an incremental update next week. We anticipate it will be up on PC first, and then hit PS3 and Xbox 360 later in the week. Among other things, the update will fix issues like magic resistance not calculating properly and the rare, amazing backwards flying dragon. Once the update is released, we’ll share the full release notes.
After the holidays, we’ll continue to release regular updates for the game — through full title updates, as well as incremental “gameplay updates” to fix whatever issues come up along with rebalancing portions of the game for difficulty or exploits. We plan on having a lot of these, not just a few. Overall, you should expect updates to be hitting the PC and Steam earlier and more often, as that’s a process we control. Console updates will follow, as they must be certified and processed by those manufacturers. […]
Thanks Bethsoft and jhwisner for the news.
More information.
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December 2nd, 2011, 09:53
Hey, I thought Bethesda rarely updated their games and put all their resources into consoles. What the hell?
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December 2nd, 2011, 10:17
Iam suprised as well.
Guess the game is worth the money afterall.

Wondering what will be fixed
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December 2nd, 2011, 10:24
Page Not Found,

This link works,

http://www.bethblog.com/index.php/20…re-working-on/

Daniel.
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December 2nd, 2011, 11:33
They do seem to be putting more resources into patching the core Skyrim product than they did with Fallout 3. It's almost as though a large portion of their team and resources were being directed to work on bugfixes rather than go straight to the DLC.

The first major patch for PC and Xbox versions of Fallout 3 was released three months after launch and subsequent major patches were only released in advance of DLC. While that patch, 3 months on, was more significant than this last one for Skyrim in terms of the number of items it addressed - it also introduced serious problems for some players which I do not believe were ever directly fixed. This time around though they are acknowledging that this last patch did break some things and that they intend to fix those issues within the medium-term rough road map they've outlined.

Am I being optimistic to think that they're at least trying to do better and learn from the past? I'm sure that if you're one of the people whose game has been nothing but trouble to get working that this would be small comfort, but its nice to think that developers can grow up as the firm matures rather than just sell out.
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December 2nd, 2011, 11:56
Steam Workshop. I presume it's going to be one of the biggest mistake in bethosft community strategy. For years Beth kept its hands clear from handling modding community. Of course they had some influence primarily through proxies like Nexus which claims to be independent. Still generally Beth was playing more like observation role rather than moderation one. Changing the stance will make them a likely target both for all sorts of moralist-purist idiots and antagonize big portion of modding community which is used to more anarchic and free environment.
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December 2nd, 2011, 11:59
Originally Posted by mazur49 View Post
Steam Workshop. I presume it's going to be one of the biggest mistake in bethosft community strategy. For years Beth kept its hands clear from handling modding community. Of course they had some influence primarily through proxies like Nexus which claims to be independent. Still generally Beth was playing more like observation role rather than moderation one. Changing the stance will make them a likely target both for all sorts of moralist-purist idiots and antagonize big portion of modding community which is used to more anarchic and free environment.
How are they changing stance? You can still use Nexus and other sites. Skyrim's still got the same plug-in and data structure, one of the most open and flexible of many games. And they're still providing a great toolset for free.
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December 2nd, 2011, 12:22
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
How are they changing stance? You can still use Nexus and other sites. Skyrim's still got the same plug-in and data structure, one of the most open and flexible of many games. And they're still providing a great toolset for free.
As I wrote before from observation to moderation. They are trying to build their own platform for sharing mods. Nothing like this existed before. It is a change, isn't it? Today due to lack of details we don't know if it's an attempt to annihilate/sanitize independent modding scene or something more moderate like creating safe hub for players who are not interested in nude, DMRA, LightGUTS and similar. The latter plan sounds even more strange to me since Skyrim is rated M.
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December 2nd, 2011, 12:40
Originally Posted by mazur49 View Post
As I wrote before from observation to moderation. They are trying to build their own platform for sharing mods. Nothing like this existed before. It is a change, isn't it? Today due to lack of details we don't know if it's an attempt to annihilate/sanitize independent modding scene or something more moderate like creating safe hub for players who are not interested in nude, DMRA, LightGUTS and similar. The latter plan sounds even more strange to me since Skyrim is rated M.
Well, they did make a point of saying:

Prefer to use existing modding sites? Not a problem. You’ll still be able to upload/share/access Skyrim mods on fan-created mod sites.
So if those possibilities you posit were the only ones (which they aren't), the first one seems the stranger of two.
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December 2nd, 2011, 12:41
Originally Posted by mazur49 View Post
As I wrote before from observation to moderation. They are trying to build their own platform for sharing mods. Nothing like this existed before. It is a change, isn't it? Today due to lack of details we don't know if it's an attempt to annihilate/sanitize independent modding scene or something more moderate like creating safe hub for players who are not interested in nude, DMRA, LightGUTS and similar. The latter plan sounds even more strange to me since Skyrim is rated M.
I don't know the US rating system, but I thought M was pretty much just violent stuff. Nudity seems to be frowned on in the states and earns a higher rating?
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December 2nd, 2011, 13:16
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
I don't know the US rating system, but I thought M was pretty much just violent stuff. Nudity seems to be frowned on in the states and earns a higher rating?
Yeah, that's adult (18+), I think, which basically means a death sentence because major retailers won't pick it up.
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December 2nd, 2011, 13:19
The backwards flying Dragon: http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for…13228284955511
That link is from the TES subfrum here, where I had posted it earlier.

Originally Posted by mazur49 View Post
As I wrote before from observation to moderation. They are trying to build their own platform for sharing mods.
The term "indirect DRM" comes to my mind again.

Prefer to use existing modding sites? Not a problem. You’ll still be able to upload/share/access Skyrim mods on fan-created mod sites.
This sounds much better, imho.

But I still wonder why they do it in the first place ?

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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December 2nd, 2011, 13:27
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
But I still wonder why they do it in the first place ?
Because it'll give a better experience for some people. I'm looking forward to it - much nicer to just pull down something over Steam than have to register for a mod site and then set up update reminders etc.
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December 2nd, 2011, 14:19
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
Because it'll give a better experience for some people. I'm looking forward to it - much nicer to just pull down something over Steam than have to register for a mod site and then set up update reminders etc.
Probably it will if they find a way to attract good mods which is not simple task. What kind of advantage for contributors they could offer comparing to traditional mod sites? Better publicity, ads profits sharing, royalties? In my view none of these. To develop new mod sharing platform Beth needs first of all win hearts of contributors, comfort of leechers is the last priority at this stage.
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December 2nd, 2011, 14:33
Steam Workshop is a very bad idea since if people put mods up on it there will be 2 potential bad scenarios that could happen. The first one is if they allow all mods up there then people who see the mods and install them without knowing what they are doing will quickly run into conflicts and bugs that could destroy their game and then there will be a huge influx of bug reports from all of those people and even potentially loss of future sales because the people think it is a bug with the game when it is a problem with mods. The other thing that could happen (like it is currently with Steam Workshop and TF2) is that a majority of the mods would be in indefinite limbo since all mods have to be tested for bugs and conflicts before being released for download.

PS. I know that you can use the Nexus but if someone wants to get into modding then they are going to look in the CK first and with an easy way to distribute their mod built right in they will likely not go look for other distribution methods. It would have been better to just have built in links and instructions to upload to the Nexus along with the capability to package the mod.

PPS. Just having nudity isn't enough to get an AO rating unless the entire game was about nudity and sexual suggestiveness. It requires gratuitous sex or extreme violence or combinations thereof to get an AO rating. The reason why there isn't nudity in American games is because the companies are run by idiots that think Americans can't handle nudity in games. If the games were made by the people who make Showtime TV series then they would all have nudity. There is even a further problem because even foreign publishers think that Americans can't handle nudity in games so they censor it.
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December 2nd, 2011, 14:53
But you'll be able to upload your mods via SmartPhone! That certainly is important, because after I'm done authoring my mod on my PC, and then moving it to my smartphone, it will be super convenient to have just one more step to getting it online.

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December 2nd, 2011, 14:58
Originally Posted by guenthar View Post
The reason why there isn't nudity in American games is because the companies are run by idiots that think Americans can't handle nudity in games. If the games were made by the people who make Showtime TV series then they would all have nudity. There is even a further problem because even foreign publishers think that Americans can't handle nudity in games so they censor it.
That pretty much sums it up, as far as I can see it.

On the other hand it's american companies wondering why Germany - for example - doesn't allow the greatest violence. EA was almost sueing the BPjS because of it (Dead Space was the game, I believe).

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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December 2nd, 2011, 15:10
They did say they wanted to be able to offer select PC created mods and enhancements on the consoles as well - and this sort of service would provide a pretty good environment for finding and vetting those mods. Realistically, this always meant setting up a mod database on their terms with metrics, categorization, and scope of content meeting their needs. Probably better to let sites like Nexus remain free to do things their way rather than force Bethesda's requirements on them. From Bethesda's perspective it is probably better to do it this way than worry about content hosted by a third party which may result in bad PR or even legal troubles (child killing mods in some venues for example) or backlash that its censoring and removal from an existing site would produce.

The reason why there isn't nudity in American games is because the companies are run by idiots that think Americans can't handle nudity in games.
I hate you for prompting me to rant so early in the morning. You are damned - and my broken coffee pot is twice damned.

No. The idiots aren't in the companies they're on blogs, in the sumpreme court, and in national and state legistlatures. This all stems from the fact that obscenity law in the United States is as ridiculous as it is vague and arbitrary and because the ESRB simultaneously offers a shield against liability in relation to obscenity laws while crafting their ratings to appease the noisiest reactionary prudes. Also while the US supreme court has ruled their ratings can not be given defacto force of law, they have still held that the obscenity of a thing on its own merits can justify legal restrictions on its sale and distribution.

So the incestous machinery of video-game censorship starts (or ends) with how the ESRB crafts ratings around the loudest righteous-indignation over specific content (turns out that in the US the loudest prudes get their pilgrim-era-pantaloons in a knot over sexual content first and foremost and then certain types of extreme violent content but typically more so when crime or sex is also involved). Retailers seek to limit their liability in the face of 50 different states with inconsistent treatment of, reaction to, and ways of defining "obscenity" by treating these ratings as meaningful guidelines and adhering to ESRB recommended restrictions in policy if not in action.

That so many of them do so is really the core of the defense this offers them - since it is "universally accepted" they can protect against the allegation that they knowingly and improperly sold obscene material by arguing they took appropriate measures and acted in good faith compliance with state and local laws. By simply not carrying any "adult only" titles and restricting "M" rated sales they protect themselves against boycotts and legal threats with effectively though with the grace and elegance of explosive-backed ablative armor plating. Finally, as a matter of practicality, game developers conform to these ratings and the reality that "M" rated titles will see a smaller potential audience and that "Ao" titles will have little to no retail presence whatsoever.

Additionally "Ao" and "unrated" titles will attract the attention of the same loud prudish anti-video game zealots whose preferences inform the crafting of the rating system itself and highlight them as targets for boycott and potentially legal action claiming them to be obscene. While the supreme court has acknowledged that an "Ao" label does not automatically mean the material can be considered obscene, they still affirm that obscenity can be subject to legal restriction and if you're going to chose something as the target of your rabid self-righteous buffoonery then its probably going to be the things the rating-system which caters to your rabid self-righteous buffoonery says you'll hate.

So the gaming companies are being pragmatic in such decisions, even if they might lack a degree of courage in them. The retailers are also being pragmatic in a hamfisted way, though perhaps even less brave and with a bit of culpability since they give the extra-legal and unelected ESRB its real power. The ESRB is filling the vacuum caused by the inconsistent and vague legal concept of "obscenity" in the US - that they do so capriciously, lazily, are easily influenced by outside pressure makes them awful and sniveling but not necessarily idiots. I'd call them cunningly adapted parasites. The real idiocy can be found in the law and legal decisions surrounding it.
Last edited by jhwisner; December 2nd, 2011 at 16:30.
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December 2nd, 2011, 15:18
I have two thoughts:
1. Way too much hostility over the last few days over the botched 1.2 patch. Sure they broke it, but they have alot on their plate with multiple platforms and the PC is a mess with the open architecture + modding.
2. Steam is a bad idea for mods because anytime you put 'ease of use' ahead of understanding the implementation you are begging for problems. The extra steps of installing mods in Oblivion/Morrowind at least ensure you know how to back them out when there is a problem.

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December 2nd, 2011, 15:25
They are adding a distribution mechanism for mods; adding, not subtracting. It's a plus, not a minus, for pete's sake. What other game company goes out of its way to provide the tools for modding and support modders at this level? The FREE creation kit, the FREE distribution channel for mods via Steam—all of this requires time and money on Bethsoft's part. It's money they are in no way obligated to spend; sure, they are probably looking at this leading to more sales, but the major sales of a game take place in the first six months, and all of this will only really fully unfold months/years after the initial sales period. This is called customer support; it is called supporting a community that develops around a game. Those of you who are whining about this and getting paranoid, get over yourselves.
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