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RPGWatch Forums » Games » The Elder Scrolls » TES V: Skyrim » Aedra, Daedra and the Dwemer (child of the 'What house did you buy' thread)

Default Aedra, Daedra and the Dwemer (child of the 'What house did you buy' thread)

December 12th, 2011, 20:16
Well, Battlespire wasn't a very good game. Not one of the worst games of all time, either, at least not IMO. But the lore it delivered and some of the characters and dialogs were quite memorable.

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December 12th, 2011, 22:44
I have a couple of lore questions relating to this I hope some of the lore hounds can help me with. I have been searching online so may find it eventually but not sure it if exists even.

1 - Lore says the Daedra can change things but not create and they are immortal. Aedra can create but can die. Ignoring some questions on create/change (such as introducing lycnthrophy could be considered "creating" something new as well as "changing" something existing and the cat lore says Azura created the cat people) WHERE are the Aedra now? Did they all die and people are worshipping dead gods? Did only their mortal bodies die and they now live on as gods in the great beyond? Is that still being immortal but without corporeal bodies? Do the divine still even exist? Are the alive but mortal? Shrines are powerful in Tamriel (they cure all disease and apply powerful blessings) … is that power from the gods or powered by the priests?

Clearly the Daedra are around and meddle all the time. Do the Divine make any appearences?

2) How are souls handled in Nirn? Clearly there are ghosts and an afterlife. From the books I read a soul can hang around if powerful enough. Some mages can summon them for information. But they eventually fade and move on (to where ever). But then there is enchanting and soul gems. When a soul is captured and used to power a gem/enchantment what happens to the "personality" of the person/entity the soul belonged to? Is it just the life energy of the person that is captured upon death and the soul (person) itself just moves on instantly to the next stage since it has no "power" anymore? If the person stays with the soul does that mean enchanting an item destroys the entities literal immortal soul? Can it even be destroyed … what happens when it is drained?

It bugs me a bit as I refuse to use enchanting or anything that involves capturing, controlling or otherwise manipulating a soul because souls are sacred (to me) and while I can rationalize a need to kill a material body at least I know the soul will live on. Seems extremely EVIL to destroy an immortal soul just to add 10 charges of +10 fire damage to a dagger :-)

Maybe the lore doesn't cover it and we decide for ourselves. My character won't take the risk but clearly if it just the life energy being captured and the entities true soul moves on then that is a bit more acceptable.
Last edited by wolfgrimdark; December 12th, 2011 at 23:05.
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December 12th, 2011, 22:57
A few of your questions about what happens to souls are answered if you finish the main quest.
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December 12th, 2011, 22:58
I'm no lore expert by any means, but I know a bit.

1. Keep in mind that anything you read about the mythology in the world is not necessarily true. Did Azura really change the appearance of the Dunmer, or is that just a story people made up? It could be either, and even if Azura did own up to it, could you trust her? That ambiguity is part of what makes the world work so well.

Some of the Aedra/gods have appeared (perhaps) in the games during certain quests, especially the main quest of Oblivion, but they don't seem to take much direct action. Divine power seems to exist, but it could be powered by something other than the gods. Unlike most fantasy worlds, an atheist could do quite well in Tamriel, although they wouldn't be able to ignore the Daedra.

2. I don't remember there being much discussion of how soul gems work, but as far as I know you couldn't capture a human(ish) soul until the black soul gems were introduced in Oblivion. There is a hint that a person continues to exist within the gem somehow, but nothing is said of what happens when that gem is used to recharge something. During the initial creation of the item the soul is transferred to it, which makes some sense, but recharging's a bit of a mystery. No one in the game really seems to be that bothered by the process.
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December 12th, 2011, 23:01
Interesting. I can't imagine at some point in the future they don't reintroduce them as a big plot/story. That said I also wonder what will happen when they do a TES game on every part of the empire, start back at daggerfall to rinse/repeat?

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December 12th, 2011, 23:21
Originally Posted by BillSeurer View Post
A few of your questions about what happens to souls are answered if you finish the main quest.
That may be awhile but I can be patient as I don't want to spoil anything. I am only about 30-40% into the game so far so have a ton more to do and I do about one stage of the main quest ever 4-5 days so will be a bit.

@Menigal: Thanks for the information on the divince. Good to know.
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December 12th, 2011, 23:27
Oh I did find this one bit of lore, in case it interests anyone (at the imperial library). Somewhat suggests know one really knows:

Souls, Black and White
Author:
Anonymous
Librarian Comment:

Provides knowledge about souls and soulgems. It raises the Mysticism skill.



The nature of the soul is not knowable. Every wizard that has attempted it vanishes without a trace. What can be known is that souls are a source of mystic energy that can be harvested.

Every creature, living or dead, is powered by a soul. Without it, they are just lumps of flesh or piles of bones. This animating force can be contained within a soul gem, if the soul gem has the capacity. From the gem, the power can be used to power magical items.

Centuries of experimentation has demonstrated that there are black souls and white souls. Only the rare black soul gem can hold the soul of a higher creature, such as a man or an elf. While the souls of lesser creatures can be captured by gems of many colors, they are all categorized as white soul gems. Hence the division of souls into black and white.

White souls are far safer than black souls, although not as powerful. Beginning students of Mysticism should not dabble in black souls or black soul gems. Even if one were to ignore the guild strictures against the necromatic arts used to power black soul gems, it is dangerous to the caster to handle them for long. If the gem is not precisely the size of the encased soul, small bits of the caster's soul may leak into the gem when it is touched.
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December 13th, 2011, 00:43
Originally Posted by Menigal View Post
On another note, I really hope they add in some more lesser daedra in a DLC or expansion. Dremora and atronachs just aren't enough!
They could make the Vigilant of Stendarr faction joinable .
Not very original, but it might also solve the issue (at least I perceive it as such) of lack of interesting content more specifically geared towards "good" characters (of course, ideally there would be a deceptive path through the faction´s questline as well ).
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December 13th, 2011, 09:24
Originally Posted by Menigal View Post
I was never able to get my hands on Battlespire, unfortunately. I keep hoping they'll release working versions of that and Redguard at some point.
Battlespire and Redguard would be great candidates for a GOG release imo. Although I'm not sure if they were popular enough for anyone to make that effort.

I've never played either game, but I'd like to give Redguard a try someday. I imagine it would be a headache to setup considering you need a Glide wrapper to play in 3D mode.
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December 13th, 2011, 11:38
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Battlespire and Redguard would be great candidates for a GOG release imo. Although I'm not sure if they were popular enough for anyone to make that effort.

I've never played either game, but I'd like to give Redguard a try someday. I imagine it would be a headache to setup considering you need a Glide wrapper to play in 3D mode.
People have worked out ways of doing it, but they don't seem to work on all systems and some require the purchase of other software. I got Redguard working once years ago, but haven't had any luck since then.
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December 13th, 2011, 11:41
The problem with Battlespire was that it ran like a dog, even on high-end hardware. In fact, I've never seen it running at decent framerates - and I believe I tried in DosBox a year ago.

I wonder if there's a way to get it smooth today, as I'm curious to try it out finally.

I bought it way back upon release, and they originally promised a 3DFX version. For some reason, they cancelled it. I was pretty pissed.
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December 13th, 2011, 16:12
Originally Posted by Jaz View Post
No … at least I can't remember if Dwemer were mentioned in Arena and Daggerfall. Or Battlespire, for that matter.* Dwemer ruins first appeared in Redguard IIRC.
You had the dwarven items in Daggerfall, but I don't think Arena & Daggerfall had anything else linked to the Dwemer. They never explained where these dwarven weapons came from though, they were just there, and felt a bit out of place.
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December 13th, 2011, 17:37
Dwemer is just Bethesda speak for steampunk
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December 13th, 2011, 18:01
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Dwemer is just Bethesda speak for steampunk
Delicious, delicious steampunk!
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December 13th, 2011, 18:21
Yes, but Babylonian-themed steampunk with Art Deco design!

Battlespire ran rather fine for me in 2006 on a Win98 system. The machine didn't have a soundboard, though, so I have no idea if that fixed the stuttering. I never got it to run satisfyingly under Dosbox (it didn't have sound there, either, but I have no idea why). The worst game ever regarding performance was Redneck Rampage Rides Again.

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December 13th, 2011, 18:31
Originally Posted by Jaz View Post
Yes, but Babylonian-themed steampunk with Art Deco design!
Yes, I did like the Mesopotamian styling in Morrowind. I wish they'd carried that theme on a bit more.
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December 13th, 2011, 18:45
Battlespire runs just fine for me in dosbox, and there is only a bit of stuttering during the video sequences, and anything that runs on this old thing should run well on most other computers
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December 13th, 2011, 20:55
So the bottom line which is what I was getting at I suppose is dwarfs were never in any TES games then? It was simply lore what happened to them. From the state of the ruins of their former cities I assume they 'disappeared' many centuries ago.

I do think it would be interesting to see them return in a future game and want their damn cities back! I could see the main plot simply being around 2 aspects. First the political landscape being re-done due to another race popping in over night and the balance of power shifting artificially due to such. And second, the dwarfs demanding their cities/tech be returned if not possible war with those kingdoms who do not. Certainly leaves a lot of open room for plot.

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December 13th, 2011, 22:01
So the bottom line which is what I was getting at I suppose is dwarfs were never in any TES games then?
None with the exception of Yagrum Bagarn in Morrowind I'm afraid.

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December 17th, 2011, 04:35
Originally Posted by Menigal View Post
Delicious, delicious steampunk!
It really does seem they developed their version of the dwarfs around steampunk more or less. I find that a very interesting take on them if not that our of place logically. In most fantasy settings dwarves are the master builders, craftsman. Only makes sense to take it one step further and get them into crazy machinery. Sort of like a Gnome and Dwarf from D&D mixed into one race.

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