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Default Who will win the 2012 US Presidential Election?

January 7th, 2012, 22:40
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
And never mind the fact that US government can't wait to get rid of this stock.
Yeah they'd have unloaded the stock sooner but the price hasn't been very good. What's funny about that is that the low stock price -despite posting its largest profits in the company's entire history- are largely due to the fact that the market knows the treasury has and intends to sell a large number of shares. Investors are holding off in large numbers on buying the stock until the treasury does this because they know that sudden spike in sell offers will drive down the price.

They should have included the stipulation that GM buy back stock directly in the bailout agreement if they intended on trying to break even. All selling it back on the stock market will do is mitigate the expense, guarantee a deflated stock price, and make investors who wait for the government sale a ton of money.
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January 8th, 2012, 00:42
And who is to blame for that? I can't get over Obama's pick of Geithner and Summers as part of his team!
Last edited by zahratustra; January 8th, 2012 at 05:17.
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January 8th, 2012, 11:46
I believe the US will fix itself through a collapse that will send it back 400 years, causing a demand to rebuild the whole thing from a clean slate. People in general will need to realize why the US was founded on the principles it was.

As it is now American politics seems clan-based, concerned with subgroups in a turf war. I am amazed in how every article always point out which religious subgroup a candidate belongs to, but very few if any spend time with what issues face the country and proposed solutions for this problem. Well, except for solutions to issues which isn't recognized as issues in the rest of the west, such as abortion, homosexual weddings, recognition of religious holidays etc. In Sweden coming out as subeducated on an issue is a political suicide, where as in the US it's seen as a virtue to spout ignorance in favor for irrational identitybased nonsense.

The country is also infested with nationalists with romantic ideas about "America" without knowing a thing about statebuilding. Many keeps insisting it's a "Christian country built on Christian principles" without having a clue what that means either. They do not understand the principles the US were founded upon and why the principles are universally valid for humanity, which is also why they believe that the "American spirit" is an entity in it's own that rules without the silly nonsense in the constitution.

Part of the reason I believe is that the school system doesn't work, thus there are no way to make cultural progress in general awareness. A people who do not grow more educated over time but rather less educated over time is doomed to collapse.

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January 8th, 2012, 21:56
When a country separates church and state to the extent it's illegal to pray in schools, or post the 10 commandments, etc, then it ceases to be a Christian country and it has abandoned the Christian principles on which it was supposedly built!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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January 8th, 2012, 22:05
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
Part of the reason I believe is that the school system doesn't work, thus there are no way to make cultural progress in general awareness. A people who do not grow more educated over time but rather less educated over time is doomed to collapse.
And who's setting policy in school? The teacher's union and "nobody can fail because it will hurt their feelings" ivory tower psychologists. And yes, I'm quite certain you'll point out the religious right and their assault on science, all while ignoring that that sort of nonsense is just a pendulum swing in response to a few decades of the liberal feel good hooey.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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January 8th, 2012, 22:24
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
And yes, I'm quite certain you'll point out the religious right and their assault on science, all while ignoring that that sort of nonsense is just a pendulum swing in response to a few decades of the liberal feel good hooey.
There is no pendulum since both positions aren't of equal value. Evolution theory is not equal opposite of Creationism just like pro-choice and pro-life positions aren't equal opposites.
Last edited by zahratustra; January 8th, 2012 at 23:24.
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January 8th, 2012, 22:27
Yes, evolution is a theory while creation is a fact!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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January 8th, 2012, 22:40
The Gop primary is the most entertaining political spectacle I've ever seen.

http://caucuses.desmoinesregister.co…-are-accurate/

Looks like romney got fewer votes than santorum (google the name Santorum for a laugh) but everyone's just going to pretend romney won anyway. Santorum wants to overturn griswold, making it possible for states to OUTLAW contraception and abortion. He ran K Street years ago. He lost his last election by a landslide. Cain was a charlatan looking for a book tour and a spot on fox news, bachman is possibly the silliest person in american politics, huntsman never had a chance in hell and romney is a plastic yes man who will say/do anything to get elected to whichever spot he's going for depending on which state he's in. Perry is palin 2.0 with better hair. Ron paul is a cartoon character. Gingrich left the house in a scandal and disgrace and had multiple affairs and three marriages. Plus, he's an asshole.

I probably missed a few flavors-of-the-week, but it doesn't matter. Romney's got it. He's rich, he's white, he has a penis and he prays to a sky-god. A weird american mormon kind of sky-god worship, but it'll be good enough in the end.

Obama wins by a sizable margin. Clown show doesn't even go far enough to describe the modern, national gop.
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January 8th, 2012, 23:27
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
When a country separates church and state to the extent it's illegal to pray in schools, or post the 10 commandments, etc, then it ceases to be a Christian country and it has abandoned the Christian principles on which it was supposedly built!!
I think its worse when a country so abandons its teaching and understanding of its own history that it chooses to become willfully ignorant of the principles and sentiments of its founders and on which it was founded because it is more convenient and self-gratifying to imagine these principles as wholly consistent with their own.

To say that America was founded on Christian principles conveys such an incomplete understanding that it serves to mislead more than inform; it is similar to saying "meat comes from cows" as an argument against the inclusion of pork in your diet.

America was founded on principles that were not entirely Christian, theist, humanist, secular, idealistic, pragmatic, or even democratic. All of those adjectives can be used to describe the complex assortment of persons and ideaologies that worked towards the founding and influenced individual principles on which it was built. To characterize the founders, founding, or founding principles as a whole as any one of those things is wholly misleading as they were each individually many of those things and some of them are mutually exclusive but all present in their own ways. To characterize these principles and the founding as some lost ideal isn't any better as misrepresenting the diversity of influences.

Every time someone says "America was founded as a Christian nation" or "Our founding fathers were all secularist humanists" or "We should return to our founding principles" I am reminded how awful our education system is; the last notion is particularly ignorant. That we have moved away from principles of our founding to some degree is a very good thing in some non-trivial ways; practical things such as who could vote to the elitist anti-democratic views behind senators originally not being elected by those few who actually could vote.

Whether our government should behave more secularly or more theologically is not an argument settled by broad characterizations of its founding. Those that believe it is are generally either misinformed on our history or willfully misrepresent it. One may use the words and writings to indicate intent and principles that went into our legal foundations, but when one does this one realizes that reality does not provide the convenient and agreeable argument that historical-fantasies do.
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January 8th, 2012, 23:51
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
When a country separates church and state to the extent it's illegal to pray in schools, or post the 10 commandments, etc, then it ceases to be a Christian country and it has abandoned the Christian principles on which it was supposedly built!!
Actually it is based on secular views not xian. It is a right wing myth that is was based on xian roots. If you doubt that I'd suggest reading some of the papers written by the founding fathers and how opposed many of them were to religion on various levels when it came to founding this country. Most of them were more or less in the boat with Jefferson when it came to separation of church/state. This had a lot to do with them being masons as well.

Of course you could also just be snarky with that comment and already realize that statement is bumpkis to begin with

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January 9th, 2012, 00:56
I believe Corwin is just trolling really.

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An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind. - Mahatma Gandhi
The world is my country. To do good is my religion. My mind is my own church. This simple creed is all we need to enjoy peace on earth. - Thomas Paine
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January 9th, 2012, 00:57
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
And who's setting policy in school? The teacher's union and "nobody can fail because it will hurt their feelings" ivory tower psychologists. And yes, I'm quite certain you'll point out the religious right and their assault on science, all while ignoring that that sort of nonsense is just a pendulum swing in response to a few decades of the liberal feel good hooey.
You do not understand how knowledge is established.
There's nothing more to talk about.

Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind. - John F Kennedy
An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind. - Mahatma Gandhi
The world is my country. To do good is my religion. My mind is my own church. This simple creed is all we need to enjoy peace on earth. - Thomas Paine
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January 9th, 2012, 01:31
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
I believe Corwin is just trolling really.
Can I report Corwin to Corwin for trolling?
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January 9th, 2012, 02:08
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
I believe Corwin is just trolling really.
Yeah it did seem like they weren't being serious - but its not something you don't hear real candidates say completely straight faced and the proponents of this revisionist history have been rewriting school textbooks to support it. When you rewrite history with the goal of emphasizing a your own particular perspective's place in history - you are going to create a distorted and heavily biased version of it even if your initial intent is to address a perceived shortcoming of the existing material.
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January 9th, 2012, 03:01
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
You do not understand how knowledge is established.
There's nothing more to talk about.
Well shit, I'm convinced. All hail the ivory tower.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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January 9th, 2012, 10:29
The school system doesn't really change that people are largely sheep. Whether they're in school, at home, or out in the world - they will not be free of their nature until we allow that to happen.

I'm no fan of the school system, and that's putting it mildly, but like any system under which we put ourselves, it's still limited by our nature.

So, how do we enable independent thought? How do we teach comfortably when everything can potentially be in question?

It must all change at the core.
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January 9th, 2012, 11:12
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermin_Supreme

This guy should definitely win it! No? Aww.
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January 9th, 2012, 14:55
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
Nice overstatement there, DTE. The US government only owns 32% of GE stock.
He is right though that Obama basically flouted bankruptcy law and gave a large chunk of the company (illegally) to the union. And don't get me started on the problem of the POTUS firing the CEO of a private company.

Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermin_Supreme

This guy should definitely win it! No? Aww.
I will vote for him simply for having the best hat.

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January 9th, 2012, 19:28
If he did it illegally BN, how come he got away with it?
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January 9th, 2012, 19:30
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
If he did it illegally BN, how come he got away with it?
Because no one has the balls to call him on it. Political pressure among other things kept the debt holders in line. They very blatantly violated bankruptcy law.

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