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RPGWatch Forums » General Forums » Politics & Religion » Hungary - on the straight road into Dictatorship ?

Default Hungary - on the straight road into Dictatorship ?

January 5th, 2012, 12:06
Hello, everyone,

I'm very much concerned about what's currently going on in Hungary.

It resembles a bit how Berluconi came into power, but this time things are much, much worse, because elected right-wing populists are exeedingly distrting the whole constitution of the country !

Mr. Orban is eroding Hungary's democracy in a similar manner like Berlusconi did - but with more concerning goals : He tries to install his party of Fidesz as an (if possible) neverending source of power (similar to what Berlusconi did), which includes drawing lines of election areas so that his party gets more votes than ever, installing party members and even his wife into central key positions, limiting what's the press is allowed to write about (in a similar manner to late laws of Berlusconi) - and the worst of it all is . He dances with right-wing extremists !

These are articles I picked out of the net which write about it :
General view I : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16387117
General view II : http://www.spiegel.de/international/…805112,00.html (funny that they are only citing left-wing newspapers ???)
View on recent economical decisions : http://www.economist.com/blogs/easte…racy-hungary-0
Blog entry : http://www.economist.com/blogs/easte…hungary?page=7

I would not want to live there anymore.

Alrik

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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January 5th, 2012, 19:20
And unfortunately, I have some friends fellow kendokas(Kendo athletes) living there. I hope they be well. They're good people. I don't like the righties.
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January 5th, 2012, 19:35
As a Pole, I have been watching Hungary with interest and the only thing which prevents this country from becoming a token democracy is (IMO) the fact that country is broke and need EU and IMF to bail them out. So economic situation slows Orban down and he is also loosing popular support. It will be interesting to see who will win this race: Orban or economy.

BUT those are views of an interested outsider. I would really like to hear views of Hungarian members of this forum.
Last edited by zahratustra; January 5th, 2012 at 20:25.
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January 5th, 2012, 20:23
Another example of why the European Union needs to have more power over national governments. The fiscal union should have been created when the euro was first adopted, not ten years later now that the entire Southern European economy is crashing. And the Union-level government should have the ability to prevent authoritarian legislation like this from being passed in any of its member-states.
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January 10th, 2012, 11:58
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
I would not want to live there anymore.

Alrik
I hope those hot hungarian women feel the same
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January 10th, 2012, 12:02
From corrupt left wing to extreme right wing. I can understand them for not voting the corrupt lefties again but didnt they have any other alternative?

I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. - Maya Angelou
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January 10th, 2012, 13:27
There is no alternative right now, but many of us hope there will be.
Half of the voters can not choose from the current parties, so there is big need for change.
Most of us voted for FIDESZ, because we had enough from the corrupt, stupid MSZP ("the lefties"), and what have got? An even more corrupt, etatist, cripto-communist wannabe dictator.

He is losing support fast, so he will be stopped. We won't allow another dictatorship after 40 years of russian ensalvement.
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January 10th, 2012, 13:49
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
From corrupt left wing to extreme right wing. I can understand them for not voting the corrupt lefties again but didnt they have any other alternative?
Originally Posted by szokol View Post
Most of us voted for FIDESZ, because we had enough from the corrupt, stupid MSZP ("the lefties"), and what have got? An even more corrupt, etatist, cripto-communist wannabe dictator.
This reminds me a little bit of the elections in Egypt, or what happened in Iran when the Shah was thrown out.

People seem to tend to the other extreme of what they have endured.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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January 10th, 2012, 13:56
FIDESZ is not an "extreme right wing". They call themselves "conservative", but they are not.
They are a mixture of everything. Populism, conservativism, liberalism, very old-fashioned christian fundamentalism, but I think there is a strong communist attide underneath of all this.
They just want power, and want to keep it. Nothing else matters.
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January 10th, 2012, 14:40
This makes me think : The most unclear and varied the positions of a party are - the less their believe in a philosophy ?

Or … to put it into other words : Parties with strong philosophies are at least reliable. They might be corrupt, but at least one knows what he(/she is voting for … Exept when within this party there is a *shift* towards corruption …

But populist parties … They don't seem to care. The question is : Did they give themselves these agendas because they want to have them for the public - or did they give themselves these agendas because they are a neat tool to become elected ?

I wonder.

Besides : Neo-Nazi parties are usually doing things so that they get the most costs from government back for their counseling meetings.
Here, all parties get costs which arise from counseling meetings back - but populist and Neo-Nazi parties apply for many, many, many, many more refunds than any other party - which shows that they are only after the money.

Berlusconi showed how it can work out : Use parties as a tool for self-enrichment …

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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January 10th, 2012, 14:53
My friend from slovenia complained that he had only bad choiches in elections. It was either the ex-communist-mafia or some church-party. Ex-communist-mafia won. Corruption is everywhere.

How can democracy work if the only thing you can vote for is which bad guy you want to elect into power?

I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. - Maya Angelou
"Those who dont read history are destined to repeat it." Edmund Burke
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January 10th, 2012, 15:06
Yes. This is a problem modern democracies hve never thought o when establishing themselves.

Modern democracies just do not have any ontrol functions againt that.

And in some countries it might be already too late : Politicians are not likely to give away power …

The only thing I can think of is : Create a new party. And hope that the "big ones" won't suppress you.

Corruption is like cancer. It has always been there. It is even in our DNA.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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January 10th, 2012, 15:10
Even if you build a new party there is a good chance that with time it will too become corrupt just like the old parties. Problem is not with the parties but with the system itself that corrupts them.

I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. - Maya Angelou
"Those who dont read history are destined to repeat it." Edmund Burke
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January 10th, 2012, 15:14
Yes, but there is the possible to build new parties over time.

Our bodies work in a similar fashion : All of the time there are produced new cells.
They replace old ones.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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January 10th, 2012, 17:56
Permanent revolution Alrik?
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January 11th, 2012, 01:53
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Hello, everyone,

I'm very much concerned about what's currently going on in Hungary.

It resembles a bit how Berluconi came into power, but this time things are much, much worse, because elected right-wing populists are exeedingly distrting the whole constitution of the country !

Mr. Orban is eroding Hungary's democracy in a similar manner like Berlusconi did - but with more concerning goals : He tries to install his party of Fidesz as an (if possible) neverending source of power (similar to what Berlusconi did), which includes drawing lines of election areas so that his party gets more votes than ever, installing party members and even his wife into central key positions, limiting what's the press is allowed to write about (in a similar manner to late laws of Berlusconi) - and the worst of it all is . He dances with right-wing extremists !

These are articles I picked out of the net which write about it :
General view I : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16387117
General view II : http://www.spiegel.de/international/…805112,00.html (funny that they are only citing left-wing newspapers ???)
View on recent economical decisions : http://www.economist.com/blogs/easte…racy-hungary-0
Blog entry : http://www.economist.com/blogs/easte…hungary?page=7

I would not want to live there anymore.

Alrik
You would have more credibility if you didn't cite Berlusconi.
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January 11th, 2012, 02:07
Eh? Care to explain?
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January 11th, 2012, 02:21
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Eh? Care to explain?
When Berlusconi started to gut the Italian constitution?
What steps he has ever taken to secure his party in power?
When someone claims that a situation is bad should make an apt comparison, if not, it looks like he is just screaming wolf for no good reason.
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January 11th, 2012, 03:25
Alrik has to explain just what he meant himself but I agree with you. I would not compare Orban to Berlusconi on constitutional grounds. However, I do consider him guilty of corruption and of passing laws designed solely to cover his corrupt arse.
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January 11th, 2012, 13:11
installing party members and even his wife into central key positions…

Dude, we've been dealing with shit like this in Romania ever since the communist regime went down in 1989.

When I was a child, my speech, feelings, and thinking were all those of a child. Now that I'm a man, I have no more use for childish ways.
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