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Default Diablo 3 and Grim Dawn comparison/discussion

January 20th, 2015, 20:47
I'm playing Grim Dawn, but I missed the Diablo series completely. I bought Diablo, but I think I got pulled away by Daggerfall and never went back. I've played Sacred, which I really enjoyed. Sacred 2 had way too much respawning. I also loved Titan Quest and Dungeon Siege 2. I've never tried Path of Exile, Diablo 2, or Diablo 3. I've sunk 200 hours into Grim Dawn though, and have only played 2 classes with several varieties of the two.

Can anyone with Grim Dawn experience compare it to these other games? I have Dungeon Siege III, but I can't remember why I stopped playing it. The power of Grim Dawn is that you can play the same class a great number of different ways depending on skills and load-outs. Love it. I might like Diablo 3 and since I'm online with Steam constantly anyway….

'nut
Last edited by crpgnut; January 22nd, 2015 at 16:00.
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January 20th, 2015, 21:02
Grim Dawn is a decent enough action RPG with a nice, if highly repetitive, setting. It's got a great "dual class" system, but is underwhelming in terms of active skills - as there aren't many of them, and most of the meat in a build comes from passive skills, which enhance the handful of active skills. I tend to find passive skills less interesting, which is why I'm not a big fan of the Grim Dawn character system - but I do like the way you combine two classes.

The loot is passable, but not terribly interesting - but I do like the gear you can apply to your items - which is just like Titan Quest.

The engine is not well optimised at this stage, and it bogs down when a lot of things are happening on screen. I'm waiting for release before diving into it for real, but I'm not expecting much.

It's been in development for ages - and I think Titan Quest was quite a bit better in terms of the environment and variety.

Overall, I think it's middling at best - and I'd say PoE and Diablo 3 are both much better in their own ways. PoE because of the depth of character builds and Diablo 3 because of fantastic variety in active skills and superb moment-to-moment gameplay.

Dungeon Siege 3 is OK - but definitely not much more than that. It has rather weak character building and boring loot. It's got a decent enough story and is probably the best game if you're just looking for a single playthrough and you don't care too much about the typical rogue-like formula of random dungeons and massive loot fests.

Dungeon Siege 2 is old and worn, but it's a very good game - and much better than the sequel. It's got decent loot and a fantastic array of spells for mage fans. It has a really flexible interface and a great streaming engine. The character system is too straightforward and doesn't involve that much variety - but it's not too bad. It's probably got the best story and is full of interesting details involving lore.

Diablo 2 is even older and even more worn, but it's a classic. It's got fantastic loot and great character classes with a lot of build options - and the cutscenes still look great

This is all IMO, obviously.
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January 20th, 2015, 21:13
By the way, I've played more or less all games in this genre - and there are a ton of others you might be interested in.

So, if you're looking for recommendations, just let me know what you like about the genre - and I'll try to mention some appropriate examples
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January 20th, 2015, 21:35
If you liked Grim dawn and Titan quest than try soulvizier mod for Titan quest.It enhances it so much that it's not really comparable to vanila Titan quest, it's like better version of Grim dawn.

Other than that, Path of exile is good but it's completly focused on character build and itemization, it requires little mechanical skill.I never played Diablo III due to multiple reasons but people say it's good now.There are some decent aRPGs(Torchlight 2 comes in mind but make sure that you get Synergies mod if you try it) but none of them come close to these imo.
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January 20th, 2015, 23:08
What I love is messing with item loadouts to improve your build. I love exploration and finding all the hidden areas. Grim Dawn has hidden areas all over the place. Some have been recently discovered that have been in the game for several build iterations. New ones, such as Hallowed Hill, have been recently added.

I've only played Demolitionist and Arcanist, along with maybe a handful of points from Soldier occasionally. The Arcanist plays massively differently depending on which actives you focus on. I've had builds that were PRM-based, others that are melee where I mix the fireblade of demo with the arcane boosting elemental damage. Another game I went totally with the ice blast spell and didn't use melee ever. I was blast and run away, building my speed to 140% with good slow/stun resists on my gear, etc. My current Demo is all about the stun jacks spell and everything equipped is all about raising lightning damage. I use grenado and the concussion bomb to start fights and then spam the whole room with sparks. Love this type of stuff.

I hate the Sacred 2/3 respawn where you cannot clean an area. If monsters respawn while still within the same map or same game session it destroys all sense of progression to me. In Grim Dawn, I leave my game on pause when I'm not playing and I've noticed that my hours played doesn't seem to count time while paused. I like that too I'm really in the mood for more of this D'art, so suggest away. You too Nameless. Crafting is also fun, if others have a "make your own gear" system that is a plus too.

BTW, tried Torchlight and didn't last 3 hours. I couldn't get into it at all. Can't remember what I disliked, but it was a strong meh after just a little time. I think I tried Torchlight 2 also, but I really can't remember. I'm never a fan of cartoon-like graphics and that was some of it IIRC.

Also, I never play multiplayer. If I played PoE, it would be strictly solo.

'nut
Last edited by crpgnut; January 20th, 2015 at 23:16. Reason: more thoughts
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January 20th, 2015, 23:38
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
What I love is messing with item loadouts to improve your build. I love exploration and finding all the hidden areas. Grim Dawn has hidden areas all over the place. Some have been recently discovered that have been in the game for several build iterations. New ones, such as Hallowed Hill, have been recently added.

I've only played Demolitionist and Arcanist, along with maybe a handful of points from Soldier occasionally. The Arcanist plays massively differently depending on which actives you focus on. I've had builds that were PRM-based, others that are melee where I mix the fireblade of demo with the arcane boosting elemental damage. Another game I went totally with the ice blast spell and didn't use melee ever. I was blast and run away, building my speed to 140% with good slow/stun resists on my gear, etc. My current Demo is all about the stun jacks spell and everything equipped is all about raising lightning damage. I use grenado and the concussion bomb to start fights and then spam the whole room with sparks. Love this type of stuff.

I hate the Sacred 2/3 respawn where you cannot clean an area. If monsters respawn while still within the same map or same game session it destroys all sense of progression to me. In Grim Dawn, I leave my game on pause when I'm not playing and I've noticed that my hours played doesn't seem to count time while paused. I like that too I'm really in the mood for more of this D'art, so suggest away. You too Nameless. Crafting is also fun, if others have a "make your own gear" system that is a plus too.



Also, I never play multiplayer. If I played PoE, it would be strictly solo.
Than I say definitively try Soulvizier.From character building, itemization and loot standpoint it better than Grim dawn, it also has crafting on nearly similar level.It also has more skills both on skill trees and on gear.It's only problem is that it is Titan quest map without much secrets and exploration.

Titan quest+soulvizier is THE BEST aRPG imo(vanila titan quest isn't even close it's lot behind Grim dawn in fact).

As for Path of exile, I also play it strictly solo and there is no downside to it.
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January 20th, 2015, 23:42
Just bought grim dawn last night. Its ok and I like the setting.I would like some voices and hopefully thats coming. Since I am one hitting everything, I am wondering if I should up the difficulty.
looks like a good game that I will be playing a long time.
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January 20th, 2015, 23:42
@ CRPGNut. FWIW, D3 has no respawns while you are clearing an area. Top level builds are all about the special affixes in items, so it may be your cup of tea.
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January 20th, 2015, 23:50
Does D3 have an item storage type area? I'm not sure if this is common. Say I'm playing a mage, but I find a great piece for a soldier. Can I store that piece for a later character? That's another reason that I keep playing the same couple classes in Grim Dawn. I keep taking all the goodies from my previous iterations and give them to the next toon.

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January 21st, 2015, 00:08
Yes, absolutely. But… most gear that drops is tailored for the character class you are currently playing. I find my stash is mostly filled with stuff for my current character. There are so many special legendary affixes for each class, that I fill it up for my current character. I wish there was a stash for each character, and way to transfer between them rather than a single shared stash.
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January 21st, 2015, 01:47
I've downloaded the demo of D3, though I'm not into multi-player at all, so I'm not sure if this will be for me. It also looked like the game had lots of micro-transactions and I'll never buy anything if I do decide to buy the main game. Even full DLC's typically get a "meh" from me.

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January 21st, 2015, 01:51
I didn't play multiplayer and still enjoyed it for quite a spell. I didn't see a single micro-transaction. What are you referring to? Definitely get the expansion, though. It's well worth it.
Last edited by Thrasher; January 21st, 2015 at 02:03.
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January 21st, 2015, 02:19
There are things on the main page like Double Goblin Treasure, The knights sword and board, etc. Are those not mini-addons? I'm just looking at them, haven't tried to buy anything yet The game is downloading slow, even though I have massive download speed…..

Oops, they may be for totally different games….

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January 21st, 2015, 02:59
The goblin thing is a special limited time "event" or bonus that is currently running. It's a freebie (as is the increased drop rate on legendaries). Both are very nice events. Good time to start.

The servers have been subject to attacks, that really kill performance. I think Blizzard seems to be victimized more than most online services.
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January 21st, 2015, 05:28
Well, I played the starter area as a witch I think. So far, the game is much prettier than GD, but is really lacking when it comes to build decisions. You get everything automatically as you level and the only choice seems to be what runes to add to your basic kit. I enjoy the voice acting so far though, very professional. I'm just level 9 and unlocked the blacksmith and made a few items, but it seems good enough to purchase…until I saw they want $40 for it. I will have to play a while longer. There are several things that Grim Dawn just does better. Rotatable map, better skill progression, better item upgrades, etc. D3 has better/more voice acting, nice little cutscenes, and purtier graphics. I'll play the rest of the free content and decide.

I'm still way open for other a-rpg suggestions. Dart, when you wake up give me your list of goodies.

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January 21st, 2015, 10:44
Well, from how you describe your tastes - I agree with Thrasher that Diablo 3 might be a good fit. It's full of optional areas you can find if you care to explore, and it's got a shit load of phat l00t

After the loot 2.0 patch and the legendary gem additions, I don't think Grim Dawn comes close to Diablo 3 when it comes to "loot satisfaction" - but that's probably subjective. After the improved loot was introduced, D3 became more about building a character around your loot - which can be quite fun as well.

The whole online aspect of the game has been blown way, way out of proportion - but that's my opinion. I'm always online, anyway - and I really don't care about the occasional lag spike here and there. For me, it's been 99% stable and fully playable and I've logged at least 300 hours with it. That said, there ARE times of downtime and server instability. For some, that's a major thing - for me, it's minor.

I've only played ~10-15 hours of Grim Dawn, because I don't want to spoil the full experience - but in that entire time, pretty much everything looked the same. Diablo 3 has much, much more visual variety in terms of exploration.

As for alternatives, the one thing holding me back from recommending stuff is your dislike of respawning - because almost all games in the genre have it.

Another personal favorite of mine is Hellgate London - which is now F2P. It has a fantastic loot system - and plenty of cool character builds. It's also one of the best games for pure visceral combat. But, unfortunately, it hasn't been developed or improved since the original developers went under and abandoned it. So, the current version is on "life support" by some asian dudes. Also, it's just called "Hellgate" now, I believe. But it's worth a shot - definitely. It's in my top 3 of the genre, most definitely.

Another game I would suggest, just to mix it up a bit is Lord of the Rings: War in the North - which has a very different style and feel of play, but it retains the vital aspects of the genre, in that it has lots of loot and plenty of killing monsters. It's also very pretty and has a nice story for the genre. It's pretty linear and straightforward - but if you like looking at pretty armor and upgrading your character whilst slaughtering Tolkien mobs - it's worth a shot.

*EDIT*

Just read your last post properly - and I think you need to play a bit more and try to forget Grim Dawn for a bit. Diablo 3 doesn't open up right away - but I promise you'll learn to appreciate the amount of toys you get each level - instead of another skill point for a passive percentage upgrade in Grim Dawn
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January 21st, 2015, 18:34
I enjoyed my two hours, but I'm aware it is two hours. I'll play a few days to get a proper feel for these.

Hellgate London sounds good and I can handle respawns as long as you can clear a map. I hate games where you can't clear the map you're on due to respawns. I uninstalled Sacred 2/3 because of this. Most of these games have some type of respawn, but I was able to clear the 3 crypts outside of town and they stayed empty till I left. I don't care if they're full again if I go back.

As far as online goes, I think one of the Battle.net servers is at Washington University in St. Louis, so I'm in their backyard. I could be wrong, but I had no latency, but I'm playing a private game that's part of the demo. I'm not sure how much streaming was going on. I'll always play private if that's an option in the full release. I don't mingle.

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January 21st, 2015, 20:22
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
As far as online goes, I think one of the Battle.net servers is at Washington University in St. Louis, so I'm in their backyard. I could be wrong, but I had no latency, but I'm playing a private game that's part of the demo. I'm not sure how much streaming was going on. I'll always play private if that's an option in the full release. I don't mingle.
Whether solo or cooperative, the amount of streaming is almost identical - so what you're seeing now is what it would play like with other people in the game. Obviously, their connection would influence their position accuracy and behavior on your end - but your own interaction with the mobs and the environment would be 100% identical.
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January 21st, 2015, 20:47
One thing to be aware of… D3 can wreck your hand and lower arm/wrist. Mine has been weakened and aching now for 6 months or so. If only Blizzard made super-heated coffee, I may have a suit on my hands.
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January 21st, 2015, 21:50
Nice Dart. Well I'm going to play it for 3-4 days. If I'm still playing Friday night, I'll buy it. Is it really $80 for both pieces of the game or am I mis-reading that? Have either of you played the expansion?

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