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February 14th, 2012, 14:38
I'm currently having a historical game itch. I can't quite decide which period the itch is for though, nor the genre, just that I want to play games based on real history (though the ability to change history is never a bad thing ). One exception though: No WW2. I currently have a near complete collection of Paradox titles (that is in house made games, not Paradox published titles), and I don't quite feel like playing something on the same complexity level as say an AGEOD title (Birth of America, Pride of Nations, Rise of Prussia). Also, if possible, it would be fun to play a game that is not focused on military conflicts for a change, like say East India Company (which is focused on trading).
To be clear, I'm not looking for a game that just takes a bit of inspiration from history (like say Empire Earth or Civilization), but rather a game with some historical accuracy.

*edit* Also, please no Total War, I just don't like that series.
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February 14th, 2012, 14:39
The Patrician series is trading in a historical setting. You get to go higher in ranks.
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February 14th, 2012, 14:43
That is a good suggestion. I've spent a fare amount of time with Patrician 3, and have had my eyes on Patrician 4, but I've heard that it is a bit lackluster (but that is from review sites, so it would be interesting to hear someone who actually enjoy the genres opinion on it)
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February 14th, 2012, 14:46
The Guild maybe ?

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February 14th, 2012, 14:48
I have that one as well Got "The Guild Universe", which contains 1+expansion and 2+first expansion. Fun games though, if a but fiddly and tedious at times.


*edit* I just noticed something: A local online store is currently selling Patrician 2 for 1sek (that is 1/10€)+postage. Is that game worth getting if you have the 3rd game? I think I've heard that Patrician 3 basically is Patrician 2 with its expansion, which were just released together as Patrician 3 outside of Germany.
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February 14th, 2012, 14:54
Cossacks maybe?

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February 14th, 2012, 15:04
Oh, I had totally forgot about that series. I played the first game a long time ago, I'll see if I can track down the second one for a good price. Also, by digging through the discount section on the same store that sold Patrician 2 for 1/10€ I found a game called Great Invasions that apparently deals with the dark ages. Never actually seen a game take an in depth look at that time period.
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February 14th, 2012, 16:53
Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
*edit* I just noticed something: A local online store is currently selling Patrician 2 for 1sek (that is 1/10)+postage. Is that game worth getting if you have the 3rd game? I think I've heard that Patrician 3 basically is Patrician 2 with its expansion, which were just released together as Patrician 3 outside of Germany.
Correct. The add-on was rather late, so they decided to rename the game outside of Germany. In Germany we had no Patrician 3.

The next Port Royal is coming soon, btw.
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February 14th, 2012, 17:20
Anno1701 (and others of that series), perhaps?

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February 14th, 2012, 17:23
How about Sea Dogs and Age of Sail?

Not sure how accurate they are, but it's something…
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February 14th, 2012, 18:08
Is Patrician 4 called Patrician 3 in Germany, or are they sticking with the international naming for that game?
I checked out some screenshots from Port Royale 3, and it looks like something that this old computer won't be able to handle Bummer. Hopefully the game will be as good as previous games though (I have a soft spot for the first game in particular).

Anno series is something that I probably should check out as well. I have played the first game, and enjoyed it, so the second one should probably be right up my alley as well. The last one (which is not historical, but it looks nice) sadly has limited activations.

I was under the impression that Sea Dogs, while a good game, was more inspired by history than based on it. I played the second game in the series (which got the Pirates of the carabean licence tacked on very late in its production cycle). Age of Sail 2 might be interesting though (the first one might prove tricky to track down through legal channels).


Also, just out of curiosity, how come these games are so big in Germany, but never get much mainstream attention from the rest of the world? There seem to just be a handful of historical trading games that are from outside of Germany (East India Company and Commander: Conquest of the Americas are from Finland, but those seem to be some of the very few non-German historical trade sims).
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February 14th, 2012, 18:30
Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
Is Patrician 4 called Patrician 3 in Germany, or are they sticking with the international naming for that game?
I think it's Patrizier IV : http://www.amazon.de/Kalypso-Patrizi…9240536&sr=8-1

Weird. Didn't notice that there was no Patrizier 3. Hm, it reminds me of Fable 3 …

Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
Also, just out of curiosity, how come these games are so big in Germany, but never get much mainstream attention from the rest of the world? There seem to just be a handful of historical trading games that are from outside of Germany (East India Company and Commander: Conquest of the Americas are from Finland, but those seem to be some of the very few non-German historical trade sims).
This is a German-related niche of gmes we call "WiSim" in short, "Wirtschafts-Simulation" in long, and it means "economic simulations", quickly translated.

These game are so popular because one can trade in them, well, as I said, they are in fact kind of "trade simulations", they simulate economy to some degree, and that's just what is making them so popular here, since decades now. I think it also plays a role hat you can build up an whole empire from the ground on in them. Kind of building The American Dream in a game.

I don't know, but I suspect that this has something to do ith the German mentality.

One of the most well-known examples is Der Planer here, would be in English THe Planner, in whih one has to build up - and maintain ! - a transport firm, trucks and such. It has been re-released and enhanced numerous times.

I think that's also the reason why the Tropico series is so well-known here, Kalypso has released Tropico 4 last year.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
Last edited by Alrik Fassbauer; February 14th, 2012 at 18:42.
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February 14th, 2012, 18:40
Europa Universalis series? Too much on the complex side I suppose.
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February 14th, 2012, 18:44
Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
Also, just out of curiosity, how come these games are so big in Germany, but never get much mainstream attention from the rest of the world? There seem to just be a handful of historical trading games that are from outside of Germany (East India Company and Commander: Conquest of the Americas are from Finland, but those seem to be some of the very few non-German historical trade sims).
Most historical games seem to be sims. Germany is the holy land for sim games, both on the production side and the playing side. It makes sense that developers have popped up there to support the demand, but I don't think we've ever really gotten our arms around why the Germans love sim games so much. Alrik did some fairly detailed musings on it in some other thread.

edit- and apprently in this thread as well…

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February 14th, 2012, 19:02
I must say that I don't really understand the German's love for sims … that well, but once in a while it is indeed fun - for me.

I really think that it might have something to do with he German mentality. Other than that, I run out of ideas to explain it.

Edit : This might perhaps also be the reason why the first Realms Of Arcania game was a sim, too - in some respect.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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February 14th, 2012, 20:13
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
One of the most well-known examples is Der Planer here, would be in English THe Planner, in whih one has to build up - and maintain ! - a transport firm, trucks and such. It has been re-released and enhanced numerous times.
From your description, I was thinking Transport tycoon, but looking at some of the screenshot from Der Planner, I have to say that I have never seen a game that looks like that before. It looks like a rather abstract trading game. I can't really imagine a game like that selling well here, trading games with more flare have a hard enough time already.

So the German stereotype as rather industrial as a people are not too far from the truth? It is interesting how our relatively minor cultural differences have resulted in such different game markets (I am by the way glad that adventure games are popular in Germany, as it would seem like Germany is one of the few countries where big budget adventure games are still being made).

I'm not a huge economic sims fan either, but from time to time I'll install one and spend the better part of a day or two glued in front of it.

Originally Posted by rossrjensen View Post
Europa Universalis series? Too much on the complex side I suppose.
I already have almost all Paradox in house designed titles (and a fare amount of the strategy titles that they have published over the years as well) AGEOD actually makes games that are even harder to get into than Paradox ever did. They have a few titles which I'm interested in, but which I'm saving for when I have a complex strategy game itch (Revolution under siege and World War 1 being two of them). And here I did by the way say no AGEOD-level complexity, and I ended up ordering Great Invasions: The Darkages 350-1066 AD, which turned out to be one of their titles. Bummer
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February 14th, 2012, 20:38
Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
So the German stereotype as rather industrial as a people are not too far from the truth? It is interesting how our relatively minor cultural differences have resulted in such different game markets (I am by the way glad that adventure games are popular in Germany, as it would seem like Germany is one of the few countries where big budget adventure games are still being made).
I have really no idea. I guess it must be someone who is proficient in both cultures to see the diffrence.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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February 17th, 2012, 04:12
Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
(I am by the way glad that adventure games are popular in Germany, as it would seem like Germany is one of the few countries where big budget adventure games are still being made).
German adventures generally have an extremely low budged. AFAIK anything above 500k EUR is an exception.
The 1.8M$ Double Fine collected are A LOT for an adventure.

The Patrician 4 reviews I've seen weren't really negative. They were just complaining that the new game was a bit too conservative.
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February 17th, 2012, 09:51
Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
I'm currently having a historical game itch. I can't quite decide which period the itch is for though, nor the genre, just that I want to play games based on real history (though the ability to change history is never a bad thing ). One exception though: No WW2. I currently have a near complete collection of Paradox titles (that is in house made games, not Paradox published titles), and I don't quite feel like playing something on the same complexity level as say an AGEOD title (Birth of America, Pride of Nations, Rise of Prussia). Also, if possible, it would be fun to play a game that is not focused on military conflicts for a change, like say East India Company (which is focused on trading).
To be clear, I'm not looking for a game that just takes a bit of inspiration from history (like say Empire Earth or Civilization), but rather a game with some historical accuracy.
I think what might fit the type of experience you are describing - not a heavy-handed focus on just military power/pure conquests - would be Crusader Kings 2. The primary focus of the game is political intrigue, espionage, and pretty much all sorts of "Game of Thrones" political manipulations as you attempt to lead a medieval dynasty to glory.

I haven't played this sequel yet (it just came out this week), but I really enjoyed CK1 and the reviews for CK2 are quite strong thus far. Perhaps most importantly (aside from an impressive lack of bugs and solid A.I.), the interface has apparently been vastly improved over CK1, and the game is a bit less daunting to play for beginners without sacrificing any of the intricate depth that makes this type of game so rewarding.

Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
*edit* Also, please no Total War, I just don't like that series.
I think you mean that you don't like the vanilla series . Just as some claim that modders bring out the full glory in the Elder Scrolls, the same can be said for the Total War series. If you are looking not only for a much more historically inspired campaign, but also for a more complex and rewarding grand campaign that features far more depth than just pure military focuses, I strongly recommend the Europa Barbarorum (EB) mod for Rome: Total War. Not only does this mod completely overhaul the vanilla map and factions to accurately reflect history at this time (while still maintaining solid gameplay balance), there is also a very interesting government/political system in place that has different effects based on how you decide to govern each province. This, combined with a more diverse variety in building options for city development, makes the EB: Total War campaign much more than a pure military focused affair.
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February 17th, 2012, 17:56
Originally Posted by Gorath View Post
German adventures generally have an extremely low budged. AFAIK anything above 500k EUR is an exception.
The 1.8M$ Double Fine collected are A LOT for an adventure.

The Patrician 4 reviews I've seen weren't really negative. They were just complaining that the new game was a bit too conservative.
I can understand that, but it is still they, and a few indie devs, who keep the genre alive. Very few companies seem to even dare to get close to the genre these days. Even telltale are going further and further from the classic point & click formula, into more mainstream territory.

Some of the early reviews called Patrician 4 shallow & repetitive, but then again, I would not rule out that it was due to ignorance from the reviewers.



I'm currently in the middle of a contest to see if I can win a copy of CK2, so hopefully I'll soon be the proud owner of a copy (well, depending on how good the other contest entries are, of course). The demo was surprisingly bug free, most likely THE most bug free Paradox-launch experience I've ever had. It was an impressive game, and a huge improvement on the original CK, at least as far as I played (It only deals with the first 20 years, and you can only play as a few noble families). I don't think it is quite on the same level as Victoria though.

Whenever I hear about TW mods, it sounds like only Rome gets mentioned. Were not the other games modded to the same extent? I'll try to dig up my R:TW cds to that I can give EB a try.

*edit* And I just checked out the reviews for CK2. I'm impressed, Paradox has finally managed to make a complex grand scale strategy game that is accessible enough for reviewers to love.
Last edited by Fnord; February 17th, 2012 at 18:41.
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