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Default How to reconcile various statements of Jesus

February 24th, 2012, 09:24
How to reconcile the statement of Jesus that He is Son of God & He and Father are the same

Matter is the condensed form of energy and hence, the energy can be treated as Father and matter as son. The Father of heaven is the energetic form charged by the unimaginable God. Jesus is the materialized matter-form charged by the same unimaginable God. From the point of view of medium, He told that He is the son of God and from the point of view of internal unimaginable God He told that He and His Father are one and the same.

The human incarnation (God in human form who comes to this world and present now) is a single phase of two components, which are God and soul. It is an alloy of Gold and copper. If a trace of Gold is mixed in copper, still it is alloy but it looks like copper only. Similarly, the human incarnation looks like an ordinary human being in which the invisible – unimaginable God is alloyed. This type of combination makes the medium always exhibited with its properties like birth, death, hunger etc. If the properties of the medium are suppressed and the properties of God are exhibited, people get excited and cannot clarify their doubts with the human incarnation. This is the merit of this concept but defect is that people generally neglect the human incarnation based on this very same point.

But, the merit is more important because the primary purpose of human incarnation is to clarify the doubts of the devotees. Arjuna questioned Krishna in several ways and got the points clarified freely because Krishna was in human form. If Krishna started explaining the Bhagavad Gita through energetic form (Vishwarupam), Arjuna could not have asked even one question due to extensive excitement. The God component in the human incarnation speaks that He is God. But, people see the human incarnation as human being only. Then there are two ways of the reaction of the human beings. Either they say that the human incarnation is only a human being and not God or they say that every human being is God. The first way is offensive and the second way is defensive. In the first way, people crucified Jesus. The offensive way is also mentioned in the Gita (Avajaananti maam…). Mohammad refused this concept of human incarnation since the people were continuing in the offensive nature only.

The defensive way was taken by Shankara. In His time, people were also atheists with ego and jealousy. He subsided their reaction by taking the defensive way. You can understand the human incarnation only by recognizing the two components. Whenever Jesus told that He is truth and light, it is the God component that spoke those words. Whenever Jesus told ‘Let Thy will be done.’, ‘Why did You leave Me?’ etc., it is the soul the component that spoke these words. The two components were clearly demonstrated by Krishna. Bhagavad Gita was told by God component. After the war, when Arjuna asked to repeat the same, the soul component spoke Anu Gita, which was only an exposition of a scholar. The Bhagavad Gita was told by God component and Anu Gita was told by soul component.

Whenever God speaks, the soul in the human incarnation is forced to be dumb. Sometimes, even the soul in the human incarnation may claim that it is God and in such case, it will be insulted and punished. This happened in the case of Parashurama, who thought that he killed all the kings. He was insulted and punished by Rama. When this is the case of the soul present in the human incarnation, what about the case of souls present in the human beings? Such souls will be punished in the hell for reformation. Sometimes the soul in the human incarnation may keep silent when he is praised as God by the devotees. The silence is forced on the soul by the God. If the soul reveals the truth, the devotees may be deeply hurt and pained. They prayed God to see Him and to speak with Him. Therefore, the secrecy of technique of the human incarnation should be maintained by the soul. However, such silence should not mislead the soul to think that it is really God or is transformed in to God really. In the alloy, the atoms of Gold remain as Gold and the atoms of copper remain as copper. Neither Gold became copper nor vice-versa.

You should limit the example within some boundaries and you should not analyze the example deeply. Infact, the Gold and copper are inter-convertible by artificial transmutation and this point should not be brought here to spoil the concept. If you take like that with extensive analysis, there can be no simile to God. All the items in the creation are imaginable and cannot be compared to unimaginable God. Therefore, you should not cross the limits of the simile in understanding the concept about God. The science is blessed to the human beings by God to understand the spiritual knowledge in deeper real sense. But, the human beings diverted the science to create more facilities. Infact, God has created all the facilities based on balance of nature leading to perfect health. All the inventions of science for the extra facilities proved to be harmful by the environmental science, which clearly proves that these inventions are not the intentions of God to bless the human beings with advanced scientific knowledge.
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February 24th, 2012, 10:21
Originally Posted by dattaswami View Post
But remember that the hero, who is the producer, has remunerated the villain and also directed every action of the villain as the director of the whole picture.
So god is director, producer, actor and, since he created this universe for his own entertainment, the only audience. Therefore he is in control of everything, including satan, whether we like it or not, and all we can do is suck it up and enjoy it like good rape victims. So he's just a sadistic voyeur. Freedom to satan! Let satan improvise I say!

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February 24th, 2012, 11:46
Killing for eating is NOT and NEVER has been a sin for Jews, Christians, and Moslems!! Sorry to disturb your happy opinions, but God says it's not!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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February 24th, 2012, 11:49
Wrong again, emotions, which are given by God, neither deactivate the brain, nor do they suppress logical analysis!! Sometimes they may even enhance it.

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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February 24th, 2012, 11:50
I never worship photos, pictures, or statues; that would be idolatry, which is a SIN!!!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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February 24th, 2012, 11:54
PLEASE!! DO NOT TRY TO COMMENT ON CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY. YOU do not have the knowledge or even the intelligence to do so. All you are doing is displaying your total ignorance on this subject. I don't mind intelligent debate, but YOU are spouting nonsense. Keep it up and I WILL begin closing and/or deleting your threads!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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February 24th, 2012, 12:03
So…Dattaswami, what's your favourite RPG?
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February 24th, 2012, 12:42
I just want to point out here that people who want to kill will find a way to do it DESPITE their religion. That goes for Hinduism, Bhuddism, Islam, Judasim and Christianity.
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February 24th, 2012, 12:53
Originally Posted by Glyphwright View Post
I warned you to stop spamming. Now I have no choice. Can you hear the frightened cows scream as I place them on the altar to the blood god? They are saying: "Dattaswami, why couldn't you keep your Hinduism contained in a single page? Why were you so greedy for digital space? Now our bloody deaths will forever be a stain on your karma mooooooo."
Apart from the slaughtering bit, I agree with you.

It's not about denying someone freedom of speech and religion. This one have been asked politely to keep his postings in one thread. He refuses to do so. In fact he spams a lot of forums on the internet in the same way.

For all practical purposes he's a troll, and should in my opinion be dealt with as a troll.

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We are Pibbur! We are not to be taken seriously!
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February 24th, 2012, 13:11
Originally Posted by holeraw View Post
So god is director, producer, actor and, since he created this universe for his own entertainment, the only audience. Therefore he is in control of everything, including satan, whether we like it or not, and all we can do is suck it up and enjoy it like good rape victims. So he's just a sadistic voyeur. Freedom to satan! Let satan improvise I say!
Some people criticize that God is enjoying the creation by entertaining Himself while the souls are troubled with problems and the blame God with sadism. The entertainment of God is not at all the sadism. Sadism is based on two points. One is: that the sadism is exhibited in reality in the world and not in the imaginary world. For God, this world is imaginary and not real. However, the sadism in the imaginary world may also show the attitude towards sadism in the mind. Even that point is ruled out because the second point for the sadism is: that a sadist enjoys by torturing some innocent person without justified reason. Here in the case of God, the problem of the soul in the world is based on its own actions and the punishment is given based on perfect justice. Hence, the point of sadism cannot be attributed to God even in mind. Moreover, the soul is not concerned with the entertainment of God because the soul is not punished on any unjust reason.

If the soul follows the rules of God in the justice, no problem can be seen by the soul. A rich person started a college for entertainment or to escape the income tax on his wealth. This point is unnecessary for the student as long as the college is running on the rules of University. The student has scope to argue against the management provided any type of injustice takes place in teaching or in the examinations. As long as the academic program is perfectly implemented, the student has no scope of argument against the original intention of the management in starting the college. Only a student, who is not perfectly following the academic schedule, will bother about such irrelevant points to mask his own defects.

If some body still argues on this point due to foolishness, the only answer is that God is the supreme most boss and there is no body to argue with Him. If an ant comments on the driver of car, such comment is not even heard by the driver! Since you do not know all the actions of a soul from its childhood, you should not say that a particular soul is good and yet is punished without justice. Neither you are capable of noting all the actions of a soul nor you are capable of judging the action in depth. Shankara established the nature of the world as unreal by itself and is felt real as long as the world exists based on God. Such unreal world is imaginary. The dream cannot be real without its basic material, which is the soul or awareness.

Similarly, a pot without mud and a chain without gold are unreal and they are imaginary or illusory. But the world is imaginary to God only and not to your self. If you say that the world is imaginary for your self also and try to do sins, you will have to undergo all the punishments and you must feel the punishments also as imaginary like your sins! Your sins and their punishments are within the realm of the world only and hence both must be imaginary!
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February 24th, 2012, 13:13
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Killing for eating is NOT and NEVER has been a sin for Jews, Christians, and Moslems!! Sorry to disturb your happy opinions, but God says it's not!!
You are killing the innocent birds and animals to eat their flesh for proteins. Buddha started the revolution by opposing the killing of animals and He is the embodiment of love and kindness to animals and birds. He left the home on seeing a bird wounded by arrow. Jesus is seen with love on a lamb in His hands and this indicates the love on animals. Once, a devotee asked Mohammed for the way to please the God.

The first thing mentioned by Mohammed (Sallam) to please God was not to kill any innocent living being like bird and animal. He told that if you kill one living being it is equal to killing the entire humanity. You cannot justify the killing of animals for the purpose of eating protein-flesh because God, the capable administrator who created this humanity, already served the purpose by creating protein rich oils.

Hence, your killing of animals is without cause and is not acceptable to the concept of Mohammed. In Hindu Manusmruti, lot of stress was given to avoid the non-vegetarian food. It imposes restrictions on place and time in killing the animals and finally recommends complete restriction called as the Mahavratam. It says that the greatest justice is not to kill any living being (Ahimsaa paramodharmah…).

The Veda says to kill the animal nature present in yourself but not the actual animal in yajna (Manyuh pashuh…). The tsunami in the sea and the quakes in the earth are only the anger of God in killing the life in water and the life on the land respectively. Even the modern medical education recommends the natural proteins in vegetables to be better for health than the synthesized proteins in the animal flesh. Science is the principle of nature, which indicates the will of God because nature is creation of God only.

The highest justice (Dharma) is non-violence (Ahimsa). God has given life to all living beings. What right do you have to kill and eat other beings? Now you may kill a living being or even a human being if he disturbs the peace and justice of human society. The Lord Himself killed evil people since they harmed society. However killing a living being, which does not harm you in any way, is the highest sin. God has given sufficient vegetarian food to feed everyone. Infact science proves today that non-vegetarian food is not even good for health.
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February 24th, 2012, 13:15
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Wrong again, emotions, which are given by God, neither deactivate the brain, nor do they suppress logical analysis!! Sometimes they may even enhance it.
You should not give value to anything except analysis. You should not try to give value to a statement in the scripture because it is in the scripture. The concept of the statement of the scripture is always true and the truth stands always in any extent of intensive analysis.

Truth never fears to stand before the verification by any extent of analysis. If the statement in the scripture fails in analysis, it means you have taken the statement in the angle of some wrong interpretation. If the statement of scripture is taken in its original correct angle, it never fails in analysis.

The Gita starts with the praise of analysis (Sankhya Yoga or Buddhi Yoga). The last verse of the Gita says that Arjuna should analyze everything said in the Gita and accept only after analysis. Shankara condemned the atheistic Sankhya Yoga of Kapila. Then the opponent said that Kapila is said to be omniscient. Shankara refused the validity of such statement stating that tomorrow somebody may say that some Tom, Dick and Harry are also omniscient. The validity of the truth comes only from the analysis and not by any other undue consideration. Actually the omniscient Kapila, who was the human incarnation of God, is different from the Kapila, who is the author of the atheistic Sankhya Yoga. This confusion is exploited by the opponent.
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February 24th, 2012, 13:16
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Do not try to tell me what the words used by Jesus mean; I specialise in this and you are wrong in your interpretation. Secondly, we can agree Jesus is God, so why didn't you try to show where either of the others claim to be God?
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
I never worship photos, pictures, or statues; that would be idolatry, which is a SIN!!!!
God is worshipped in two ways. The first way is the direct worship of God when He comes down in human form. The second way of worship of God is the worship of statues and photos, which are the representative models of God. The first way is direct high form of worship. The second way is the indirect low form of worship. In any type of worship, if selfishness is absent and if the worship is the service without any selfish desire, such worship is pure worship. If the worship is with a desire, it is impure worship. Blessed souls worship God in human form with absolute purity.

Hanuman worshipped Rama and Gopikas worshipped Krishna in this way of high form of pure worship. If you worship statues and photos of God with desire, such worship is low form and impure also. In this low impure worship, the fruits of your service do not reach God and reach the undeserving priests. If the human form of God is not available, you worship the deserving devotees with pure service. God is more pleased in this way, because God loves His deserving devotees more than Himself. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa worshipped the statue of Kaali, but without any selfish desire. By this way, he is advising the people, who are doing low form of worship to make it at least pure. The pure low form of worship is certainly better than the impure low form of worship.
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Default The real meaning of Jesus statement

February 24th, 2012, 13:17
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
PLEASE!! DO NOT TRY TO COMMENT ON CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY. YOU do not have the knowledge or even the intelligence to do so. All you are doing is displaying your total ignorance on this subject. I don't mind intelligent debate, but YOU are spouting nonsense. Keep it up and I WILL begin closing and/or deleting your threads!!

The unimaginable God enters the energetic form and is called as the Father of heaven. The same unimaginable God enters a materialized human form and is called as the human incarnation. Narayana is the energetic form charged by the unimaginable God. Krishna is the materialized human form charged by the same unimaginable God. From the point of content, both Narayana and Krishna are one and the same. From the point of the container or the charged medium, both differ. Since energy is first and matter is the subsequent, you can say that Krishna came from Narayana from the point of the medium. Matter is condensed energy.

Similarly, Jesus is materialized human form charged by the unimaginable God and the father of heaven is energetic form charged by the same unimaginable God. From the point of content, the unimaginable God, Jesus and father of heaven are one and the same and this is stated by Jesus that He and His father are one and the same. From the point of the charged medium, Jesus is the son of the father of heaven, since the matter came from energy by condensation. From the point of the medium, Jesus said that He is the son of God.
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Default Do not ask anything from God…

February 24th, 2012, 13:18
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
"God has heard your prayers, and they are really starting to creep him out…"
http://www.condenaststore.com/-sp/Go…_i8648086_.htm
Do not ask any thing from God which is either related to present or future. When you ask some thing in present or some thing in the future, it clearly means that you are reminding Him about the corresponding reaction that is to be immediately implemented in the need. This indirectly means that God is not alert as you are. This is insulting God. Due to such sin the requirement is not answered. If you are asking to protect yourself or somebody else, it indirectly means that He is not aware of the things to be done due to the irresponsibility and this also indicates that He is not as kind as yourself.

It means that God has potency to help but not kind enough to render the help. On contrary, it also means that you lack unfortunately the potency. It means if you fortunately have the potency you could have immediately responded and helped. Therefore, when ever you ask for anything it clearly means indirectly that God has some type of defect, which does not exist in your case. When you ask Him to fulfill the desire it looks as if that your desire is constitutionally justified. But God is not positively reacting due to either lack of positive response immediately or due to lack of knowledge of the constitution or due to lack of kindness to help the needy. All these points are very very subtle. But God is the most subtle and therefore, the knowledge of this analysis will certainly restrict you from asking any fulfillment of your desire.

Never bring present and future before God. Confine to the past always before God. Look back at your past life. Hundreds of incidents are there where you were helped by God. Even if you dispose some incidents through the incidental probability of success or through the efficiency of your efforts, certainly there are plenty of instances in which the help from God is clearly evident. At least remember those few incidents and express your gratefulness along praise to God for His kind help that was already done. The word Krutajnata means remembering the past help. Kruta means the past help done. Jna means identifying it by analysis. If you confine to praying the Lord and thanking Him always about the past helps from Him, the Lord will be immensely pleased. Then the present and future are spontaneously taken care of by the God. But do not adopt this technique with a mind that you will be helped by God in the present and in the future by following this procedure!

You should really follow this path and you should really forget the present and the future. When large number of people came to hear the message from Jesus, they were hungry by the noon. This point was brought to the notice of Jesus. He never asked God to provide food for those hungry people who came to hear God’s word. Had He asked for that, He would have insulted God. God knows His responsibility very well towards the devotees who came there to hear about Him. God has the power to fulfill His responsibility even in the last fraction of second. Had Jesus told God to bless the devotees with food, it clearly means that God is not as kind as Jesus. Jesus never asked for any thing. He came to know that there were four breads. He took them and showed to sky. He thanked God for providing those four pieces of bread.

Immediately the present was responded and the four breads became four thousand breads. This application of analysis is limited to Nivrutti only. You should not extend this to Pravrutti. When you are hungry you have to beg the other souls because they are not omniscient to know that you are hungry. Pravrutti and Nivrutti should never be mixed.
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Default Christians and Muslims are actually cousins

February 24th, 2012, 13:27
In fact, Christians and Muslims are actually cousins because both are the two branches of same ancestor Abraham. One branch was headed by Ishmael, which became Islam. The other branch headed by Isaac became Christians. Muslims recognize Jesus also as the precedent prophet to Mohammad. Mohammad was very much pained at the crucifixion of Jesus and hence resisted the concept of human incarnation, which can never be relished by the co-human beings due to ego and jealousy. This is not difference of policy but it is due to the heart felt pain by Mohammad about Jesus.

Hindus were always co-operative with every religion and you can find the peaceful co-existence of Christianity and Islam in India with out any violence. In fact, Hinduism itself is a mini model of Universality of Religions. There are several sub-religions in Hinduism like Shaivism, Vaishnavism, Shaktayism etc., which co-existed based on unity in diversity. In fact, Shankara co-related all the sub-religions and brought the unity based on single God called Brahman appearing in different forms like Shiva, Vishnu, Shakti etc.

The same process of unity of religions in one region was carried on by Mohammad, who established the concept of single God called as Allah. Of course, Shankara brought such unity by powerful logic and debate, where as Mohammad brought the same unity through powerful sword. The powerful knowledge is represented by sharp sword as said in Gita [Chchittvaa jnaanaasinaa….]. According to the circumstances and the mental level of the then existing people, knowledge or sword was used. In the time of Shankara, the quarrel was between scholars of various religions through arguments. In the time of Mohammad, the quarrel was between the heads of various religions through swords. The final result was one and the same.
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February 24th, 2012, 13:32
Seems like Cleve blew a circuit breaker and this is what came out. This is what happens when you stay underground for too long.
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February 24th, 2012, 13:40
"Are you asleep ?"

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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February 24th, 2012, 13:41
Originally Posted by dattaswami View Post
In fact, Christians and Muslims are actually cousins because both are the two branches of same ancestor Abraham.
Of course they are. And Jews, too.

Nothing new, imho.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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February 24th, 2012, 14:20
This is sad news indeed. It is unfortunate that cousins should kill cousins but it is nevertheless necessary lest the unfaithful should taint the innocent believers of the one true God and push them on the path towards eternal damnation. It is certainly not pleasant knowing that your own cousin is but a filthy dog infected by evil, but, tragic though it may be, it is still necessary to put him down so as to prevent the infection being spread to the other innocent members of your family.

"I am not interested in good; I am interested in new, even if this includes the possibility of it's being evil"
(LaMonte Young, 1962)
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