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Default Mass Effect 3 - Issue with MP, More on Endings

March 19th, 2012, 22:42
A couple of Mass Effect 3 tidbits.
First, Domein writes about some player frustration with "Kits becoming relocked in Multiplayer". I don't know what that is but I'm sure those that do will be interested in this thread on the Bio forums.
Next, there are signs BioWare is wavering on the Endings controversy with Mass Effect 3. Here's a post from their Facebook thingy (thanks, Blue's):
We are aware that there are concerns about a recent post from this account regarding the ending of the game. In this post it was stated that at this time we do not have plans to change the ending.
We would like to clarify that we are actively and seriously taking all player feedback into consideration and have ruled nothing out. At this time we are still collecting and considering your feedback and have not made a decision regarding requests to change the ending.
Your feedback and opinions are of the utmost importance to us. We apologize for any confusion this has caused. Our top priority regarding this discussion is to keep communication with you, our loyal fans, open and productive.
…and in related news, RPS argues What's Right With Mass Effect 3's Ending.
More information.
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March 19th, 2012, 22:42
I wouldn't be opposed to an alternate ending DLC, or something. I've seen series and/or movies with alternate endings. They can work well. Again, still can't say anything about Mass Effect 3's current ending. I'm a slow player.
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March 19th, 2012, 22:45
The key part of the RPS article
I feel like so many of people’s complaints about Mass Effect 3′s apparent lack of consequence would have been addressed by something as tacky as Dragon Age’s flash-card descriptions of what had happened to the characters in your party.
Alternate ending as dlc would set a terrible precedent and Bio would likely get bashed even more for it than if they let the end of the game as is.
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March 19th, 2012, 23:41
A modified, clarified, or otherwise changed ending in the style and mindset of continuing improvements, via free DLC, as implemented by CD Projekt Red Studio for the Witcher series would set a wonderfully positive precedent IMO.

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March 20th, 2012, 07:29
Don't think free dlc can happen with consoles.
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March 20th, 2012, 08:41
Originally Posted by KapitanUnterhosen View Post
The key part of the RPS article

Alternate ending as dlc would set a terrible precedent and Bio would likely get bashed even more for it than if they let the end of the game as is.
Donīt ever do that!

For the love of everything holy, respect your own artistic vision (or whats left of it) and stand by your decision.
(but give us holstering ;-)

Giving in to the vocal bashers and whiners would give us extremely boring and unsurprising games in the future. Format 1A.

trying to stay away from spoilers since I haven't started on ME3 is not easy…

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March 20th, 2012, 09:29
Yeah right… now that you have the money and ME is over you care about what players think. Rriiiight.
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March 20th, 2012, 10:22
Hmm artistic vision in games where? Seriously though it's like penny arcade said with this quote again.
There’s a countercharge now, in response to anger about the endings, that describes Bioware’s output as sacrosanct in some way - beyond criticism. This is fundamentally batshit
The endings were uninspired hell they weren't even a letdown just a WTF where they thinking. The true ending was completely different but due to time and not being able to implement it were stuck with the chose your ending with minimal plot cliche.

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Last edited by Couchpotato; March 20th, 2012 at 20:57.
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March 20th, 2012, 14:07
The ME3 ending is awful but they really need to stick with it. Releasing alternate endings as DLC will only cheapen the game further. They should own up to their mistakes and promise never to pull this shit again (and mean it!).

I'm pissed off about it because it ruined one of my favourite RPG settings from the past few years. I don't think I'll be able to take another ME game seriously. They effectively soured me on the franchise. Same with DA2 and the Dragon Age setting. Damn, it's a trend.
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March 20th, 2012, 19:35
I fail to see how exactly BW readdressing the ME3 ending would set a terrible precedence - as though this has never been done before with games like Fable: The Lost Chapters, Fallout 3: Broken Steel, and TW2 (among others, I'm sure). Unless I'm overlooking your sarcasm, it seems to me that ending revisions in the past have provided a totally viable means of supporting a disenchanted fanbase in the light of having screwed up big time.

Besides, I have a hard time imagining how anything could further cheapen the game from the tacked-on, nonsensical A, B, C choice ending they already left us with. Then again, stupider things have happened.

A modified, clarified, or otherwise changed ending in the style and mindset of continuing improvements, via free DLC, as implemented by CD Projekt Red Studio for the Witcher series would set a wonderfully positive precedent IMO.
Exactly. I think a continuation of the current ending (rather than a completely alternate ending), would be much preferred to BW leaving things as is and cementing their name as a company that entirely fails when it comes to story wrap-ups.
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March 20th, 2012, 20:38
Originally Posted by Ashindai View Post
I fail to see how exactly BW readdressing the ME3 ending would set a terrible precedence - as though this has never been done before with games like Fable: The Lost Chapters, Fallout 3: Broken Steel, and TW2 (among others, I'm sure). Unless I'm overlooking your sarcasm, it seems to me that ending revisions in the past have provided a totally viable means of supporting a disenchanted fanbase in the light of having screwed up big time.
Is TW2 supposed to stand for The Witcher 2? If so, what are you talking about?

I haven't played ME3 yet (heck.. I haven't even played ME2), but I completely agree with the people who are against changing the ending.

Would you ask the author of a novel to rewrite an ending just because you didn't like it? And before you say "Well that's not the same thing"… yes, it is.
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March 20th, 2012, 21:39
Originally Posted by KapitanUnterhosen View Post
The key part of the RPS article

I feel like so many of people’s complaints about Mass Effect 3′s apparent lack of consequence would have been addressed by something as tacky as Dragon Age’s flash-card descriptions of what had happened to the characters in your party.
And the key to understanding game journalists these days too. Apparently a minute and a half "cinematic" cutscene beats flash-card descriptions of what had happened to the characters in your party. I strongly disagree. Videogames are not movies. Endings that among other things describe how your deeds influenced the world have worked very well for this particular medium.
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March 20th, 2012, 22:39
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Is TW2 supposed to stand for The Witcher 2? If so, what are you talking about?

I haven't played ME3 yet (heck.. I haven't even played ME2), but I completely agree with the people who are against changing the ending.

Would you ask the author of a novel to rewrite an ending just because you didn't like it? And before you say "Well that's not the same thing"… yes, it is.
TW2 Enhanced Edition due out April 17th? Not to imply that TW2 needs the expanded storylines, haven't played the game yet myself so wouldn't know, but the fact is CD Projekt is continuing the story within the same title, while revising and expanding on original scenes from the game.

Which leads into how games and novels are not exactly the same thing (not the argument I was making, but if you want to bring up the point…): Game publishers frequently return to their products post-launch to provide additional content and story material for their audience. I can't remember the last time an author released a single chapter or two to expand on a story they had already published (maybe I'm wrong, maybe this is a common practice now in a world of e-readers, but I haven't heard of it). Not to mention, games are an interactive medium, compared to the passive mediums of reading and movie-watching - by their very nature, games encourage players to enact change to the plot and world at large.

For what it's worth, I agree, changing the ending would not be a good thing. Expounding on the current ending through additional content could be.
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March 20th, 2012, 23:18
Don't like the ending? Mod it! Modding has been offering gaming's equivalent of slash fiction for a while now, so I don't see the problem here.

I don't remember people asking RG to change Ultima Ascension's terrible ending, people just went and made their own stuff.
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March 20th, 2012, 23:20
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Is TW2 supposed to stand for The Witcher 2? If so, what are you talking about?

I haven't played ME3 yet (heck.. I haven't even played ME2), but I completely agree with the people who are against changing the ending.

Would you ask the author of a novel to rewrite an ending just because you didn't like it? And before you say "Well that's not the same thing"… yes, it is.
I am not for changing the ending myself if only because what is done is done and changing it would feel artificial to me. Expanding on it, however, would not be bad.

Anyhow I tend to disagree on the book comparison as I think a game is a different medium. But Brent Knowles (ex bioware writer) explains it much better than I could:

http://blog.brentknowles.com/2012/03…#disqus_thread

The following is in the comments thread, not the blog post (the blog post deals specifically with the issue of Day 1 DLC).

I read one recent blog post where the writer basically said "the ending was awesome because it was just like a movie" and I think she was missing the point.

It is a game. Not a movie.

And more specifically, its a role-playing game. The players are *part* of the game. Part of the process of building and experiencing the game, much more so than with most other forms of entertainment.

Entitlement is really a right, for the gamer, because they have participated, actively, in the game itself.

Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not played it but in generally I'd say a Role-Playing Video Game Trilogy Ending should (try to) do the following:

1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.

2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games… life in general is full of ***** stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.

When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction.

On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created.

It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame *trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the series on a high note.

Character is centrality, the impossibility of being displaced or overset. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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March 21st, 2012, 00:03
Originally Posted by Ashindai View Post
TW2 Enhanced Edition due out April 17th? Not to imply that TW2 needs the expanded storylines, haven't played the game yet myself so wouldn't know, but the fact is CD Projekt is continuing the story within the same title, while revising and expanding on original scenes from the game.

Which leads into how games and novels are not exactly the same thing (not the argument I was making, but if you want to bring up the point…): Game publishers frequently return to their products post-launch to provide additional content and story material for their audience. I can't remember the last time an author released a single chapter or two to expand on a story they had already published (maybe I'm wrong, maybe this is a common practice now in a world of e-readers, but I haven't heard of it). Not to mention, games are an interactive medium, compared to the passive mediums of reading and movie-watching - by their very nature, games encourage players to enact change to the plot and world at large.

Yes, developers expand on the storyline and provide additional content with DLCs. I'm not sure what any of that has to do with changing an ending though. You're talking about two different things.

As far as it being a game vs a book, I don't see that as a justification for changing the ending to a story once it's been published just because some people didn't like it. It's a different medium yes, but it's still a story. Being interactive has nothing to do with that.
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March 21st, 2012, 00:23
2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games… life in general is full of ***** stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.

When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction.

On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created.

It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame *trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the series on a high note.
Brent Knowles is entitled to his opinion, but that's all it is.

He's apparently disappointed because the ending didn't feature children dancing in the streets among flowers and rainbows.

Personally, I give Bioware credit for taking a chance and not going with the typical cliche ending that we're so used to seeing.
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March 21st, 2012, 00:50
Once again:
For what it's worth, I agree, changing the ending would not be a good thing. Expounding on the current ending through additional content could be.
My reference to developers updating games through DLCs and the like was meant to highlight that there already is a precedence in the RPG world to return to games post-launch. Therefore, I don't see how it would be "terrible" for Bioware to follow suit and expand on the ending that's left many of their fans scratching their heads.

He's apparently disappointed because the ending didn't feature children dancing in the streets among flowers and rainbows.

Personally, I give Bioware credit for taking a chance and not going with the typical cliche ending that we're so used to seeing in crpgs.
Coming from a person who admitted they haven't even played the game, that means a whole lot of nothing. You're just perpetuating an ignorant assumption based on hearsay. If you had played the game, you would realize it's not the lack of any fairy-tale ending that (most) fans are upset about - it's the lack of a coherent, logical ending that's left people with a bad taste.

It's all well and good to give credit where credit is due, but it's obvious you don't even know what you're talking about. In any case, it seems pointless arguing this with you any further when you seem intent on defending something you don't even have personal experience with.
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March 21st, 2012, 00:54
Originally Posted by Ashindai View Post
Coming from a person who admitted they haven't even played the game, that means a whole lot of nothing. You're just perpetuating an ignorant assumption based on hearsay. If you had played the game, you would realize it's not the lack of any fairy-tale ending that (most) fans are upset about - it's the lack of a coherent, logical ending that's left people with a bad taste.

It's all well and good to give credit where credit is due, but it's obvious you don't even know what you're talking about. In any case, it seems pointless arguing this with you any further when you seem intent on defending something you don't even have personal experience with.
I didn't realize we were arguing.

I also didn't realize that you're evidently too stupid to understand that I'm talking about a general principle, not something that's plot specific or would require me to have seen the ending myself.
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March 21st, 2012, 04:32
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I didn't realize we were arguing.

I also didn't realize that you're evidently too stupid to understand that I'm talking about a general principle, not something that's plot specific or would require me to have seen the ending myself.
It's not that Bioware decided not to go with the cliche ending. It's that they created a bunch of plot holes and gave the game a nonsensical ending. There's just a bunch of crap that makes no sense at the end that is there to create "lots of speculation". They didn't know what they were doing hence all the plot holes, and they couldn't figure out how to end the game so they decided to create this nonsensical ending that basically copies the choices from Deus Ex. It doesn't fit with the themes of the series and the majority are upset about it.

I don't think they should change the endings either, but they should explain what happened somehow. I've seen the ending and I have no idea how they continue the series from here. Maybe they don't want to do anymore Mass Effect games but I can't see them continuing the series since all the Relays are destroyed. There's not a lot of room for a prequel since it's only been like 30 years since humanity discovered their first Relay. But who would want to play a prequel knowing the way it ultimately ends? They killed the replay value of their own game with the ending.
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