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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Wasteland 2 - (Don't) Give me that old time RPG Combat @ Joystiq

Default Wasteland 2 - (Don't) Give me that old time RPG Combat @ Joystiq

April 1st, 2012, 01:08
Rowan Kaiser writes at Joystiq about balancing the combat system in Wasteland 2 between staying true to its roots and more modern forms. The article argues that combat systems were evolving at the time Wasteland came out and lists some of the changes:
The Kickstarter success of Wasteland 2 may be one of the most important developments in Western role-playing games in years. It could re-open the doors to bringing back party-based, less cinematic role-playing games of the sort that have been largely gone since the mid-1990s. The trick, however, will be in using a style of combat that assures both quality and popularity for Wasteland 2. Because if it simply follows in the footsteps of the original Wasteland, it may have problems on both of those fronts.

The original Wasteland was released in 1988, towards the start of a transitional era for role-playing games, both technologically and creatively. The core mechanic of role-playing games of the era — combat — started to shift, and lose some of its importance.
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April 1st, 2012, 01:08
I would certainly hope that Wasteland 2 won't be an exact replica in terms of how the gameplay functions…I've been picturing (or perhaps, wanting) more of a Fallout 1+2 system, myself. Combine that style of pure turn-based combat with a party and I would be extremely pleased.
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April 1st, 2012, 02:31
I would prefer that it be closer to Wasteland 1 than the drek that passes for rpgs these days. Make it simiar to KoTC, make the fights brutal, requiring thought and tactics, and they'll have a winner. I guarantee it. I suggest giving the option to save where and whenever, but do not give people the option to dumb it down. Far too many games are simplistic these days, I for one would prefer an actual challenge.


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April 1st, 2012, 07:38
I think we're likely to see a sort of FO 1/2-style system with party members. That'll require some significant changes, so I still don't know exactly what -that- means. However, I think it's true regardless.
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April 1st, 2012, 07:59
Jagged Alliance 2, Fallout and Wizardy 8 combat engines are still the kings for turn based combat.

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April 1st, 2012, 08:07
I'd toss in ToEE and KotC as my personal favourites.

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April 1st, 2012, 08:17
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
I'd toss in ToEE and KotC as my personal favourites.

ToEE. Best turn based combat ever.
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April 1st, 2012, 08:18
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
Jagged Alliance 2, Fallout and Wizardy 8 combat engines are still the kings for turn based combat.
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
I'd toss in ToEE and KotC as my personal favourites.
Never played Wizardry 8 or KoTC, but I wholly agree with the other games mentioned in terms of incredible turn-based combat (especially ToEE and JA2 for me). I would also like to throw an honorable mention/"bronze metal" towards Fallout Tactics. Most FO 1+2 fans dislike the game due to the departure from the FO story and quest formula, but judged on its own merits and from the viewpoint of tactical turn-based combat, it ranks reasonably high on my list - even if it isn't quite on the same level as ToEE or JA2. I've always thought it would be perfect to have Tactics' turn-based combat system with a full party in FO 1+2. Maybe Wasteland 2 can pull off something similar to this .
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April 1st, 2012, 08:54
Originally Posted by Nerevarine View Post
Never played Wizardry 8 or KoTC, but I wholly agree with the other games mentioned in terms of incredible turn-based combat (especially ToEE and JA2 for me). I would also like to throw an honorable mention/"bronze metal" towards Fallout Tactics. Most FO 1+2 fans dislike the game due to the departure from the FO story and quest formula, but judged on its own merits and from the viewpoint of tactical turn-based combat, it ranks reasonably high on my list - even if it isn't quite on the same level as ToEE or JA2. I've always thought it would be perfect to have Tactics' turn-based combat system with a full party in FO 1+2. Maybe Wasteland 2 can pull off something similar to this .
Just replayed fallout tactics and i agree. It is a great game tactics wise.
i asked mr. fargo about perhaps using that engine but didnt got a responce.
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April 1st, 2012, 09:02
TOEE is my favorite when it comes to turn-based combat and after I went and started playing it about 6 months ago I have been looking for more turn-based games.
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April 1st, 2012, 09:29
Fallout style combat would be great, but please give us full control over the entire party. No AI controlled companions thank you.
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April 1st, 2012, 12:02
Originally Posted by Nerevarine View Post
I would also like to throw an honorable mention/"bronze metal" towards Fallout Tactics. Most FO 1+2 fans dislike the game due to the departure from the FO story and quest formula, but judged on its own merits and from the viewpoint of tactical turn-based combat, it ranks reasonably high on my list - even if it isn't quite on the same level as ToEE or JA2. I've always thought it would be perfect to have Tactics' turn-based combat system with a full party in FO 1+2. Maybe Wasteland 2 can pull off something similar to this .
Same opinion here. And Like JDR13 said, being able to control the entire party like FO:T is a much better direction for W2. I'd also like to be able to switch between turn based and real-time like Fallout Tactics did. And I think the graphics were good too. FO and FO2 look a little dated these days, but FO:T has decent graphics. I wouldn't be disappointed if Wasteland 2 ditched 3D and used FO:T quality 2D graphics.
ToEE also had an amazing turn based system, but I prefer FO:T's TBS system for Wasteland 2.
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April 1st, 2012, 13:26
For party-based games, Jagged Alliance 2, Temple of Elemental Evil, and Silent Storm did it best. Don't think the ToEE model is too applicable for Wasteland 2, though, since it won't be using AD&D rules.
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April 1st, 2012, 16:04
To all those out there who haven't tried KotC, do yourself a favour and at least play the demo. Some of the best (if not the best) turn-based enemy AI in the history of the computer game.

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April 1st, 2012, 17:20
Originally Posted by screeg View Post
To all those out there who haven't tried KotC, do yourself a favour and at least play the demo. Some of the best (if not the best) turn-based enemy AI in the history of the computer game.
I never have but probably should. The bare-bones choices of classes turned me off. I liked the much longer list planned for KotC 2, though i sure haven't heard anything about that game in a long time. anyone heard anything recently about how KotC 2 is coming along?
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April 1st, 2012, 18:13
Originally Posted by Capt. Huggy Face View Post
I never have but probably should. The bare-bones choices of classes turned me off. I liked the much longer list planned for KotC 2, though i sure haven't heard anything about that game in a long time. anyone heard anything recently about how KotC 2 is coming along?
It is offtopic, but i am wondering the same thing.
Been a while since there was some news about kotc2.
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April 1st, 2012, 19:25
Originally Posted by ikbenrichard View Post
It is offtopic, but i am wondering the same thing.
Been a while since there was some news about kotc2.
KOTC2 updates can be found here.

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April 1st, 2012, 20:17
I'm not sure what argument Rowan Kaiser is trying to make, but provided he has any point at all it would seem to be an exceedingly narrow one. At the end of the article he votes for Wizardry 8-style combat, which in fact sticks very close to the "menu-based" formula of early M&M and Wasteland that he spends all his previous paragraphs bemoaning. If there's some impenetrable chasm between the combat systems of Wasteland and Wizardry 8 (other than party movement…which if anything reduces the speed of the combat even further) then Kaiser doesn't make a good case for it. Also, he comes dangerously close to endorsing the conceptually flawed idea that turn-based systems were solely the product of technological limitations which were later overcome and resulted in a shift towards realtime combat.
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April 1st, 2012, 22:30
Originally Posted by screeg View Post
To all those out there who haven't tried KotC, do yourself a favour and at least play the demo. Some of the best (if not the best) turn-based enemy AI in the history of the computer game.
Mmmh, no. Simply. No.

Never understood what the (limited to the indie niche) fuzz was about.

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April 1st, 2012, 23:25
Originally Posted by ikbenrichard View Post
It is offtopic, but i am wondering the same thing.
Been a while since there was some news about kotc2.
He's making an RTS instead, remember? Hence, no updates.

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