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Default Shadowrun Returns - Update #10, $1.5M Passed

April 26th, 2012, 15:20
There's a new Kickstarter update for Shadowrun Returns as their campaign cruises past $1.5M. With only 66 hours to go as of this post, there's a new video offering a new stretch goal - head over to hear about it.
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April 26th, 2012, 15:20
Personally, I get more and more suspicious about this project with every update. All they want to talk about is us finding ways to get them more money, and non-game stuff like t-shirts, wallpapers, short stories, soundtracks, whatever. Still no specifics about how the actual game is going to play, at all. I'm a backer, but have already reduced my amount because of this.
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April 26th, 2012, 16:30
Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
Personally, I get more and more suspicious about this project with every update. All they want to talk about is us finding ways to get them more money, and non-game stuff like t-shirts, wallpapers, short stories, soundtracks, whatever. Still no specifics about how the actual game is going to play, at all. I'm a backer, but have already reduced my amount because of this.
Exactly, and that is why I did not back them. Moreover, the project leader talks like a car salesman, not an intelligent game developer or designer - I don't know what audiance they are targetting.
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April 26th, 2012, 16:53
Originally Posted by SpoonFULL View Post
Exactly, and that is why I did not back them. Moreover, the project leader talks like a car salesman, not an intelligent game developer or designer - I don't know what audiance they are targetting.
Well, the way I see it Kickstarter videos are supposed to deliver efficient sales pitches first and foremost. Their purpose is to bring onboard the skeptical and enthuse the fan base (whether the same pitch works for everyone is another question); whereas details about the project itself is better left for the actual text description and whatever website the team in question has set up.

As for the gameplay I think they've been clear enough about what they're aiming for, but I also get the impression that the project has become much more ambitious than was originally planned and they don't have a whole lot more to add without changing the fundamental concept in ways which are too expensive and risky.
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April 26th, 2012, 17:01
Originally Posted by Demiath View Post
As for the gameplay I think they've been clear enough about what they're aiming for
Are you serious? Where is this information? Almost all their updates/information are about the Shadowrun world in general or the pen-and-paper game, the only thing I've ever really seen on gameplay is that it'll be turn-based.
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April 26th, 2012, 17:05
I would assume that one should provide the standard 'sales pitch' in addition to/reference to more details on the concepts, designs, arts and ideas that will go into the game and how they will fit with existing technology and trends for those who want to be well informed (not just references to old text and old nintendo versions). After all and in my view, people want to have confidance in what they are investing in through some intelligent, timely evidance - 'call the president' and some T-shirts did not work for me.
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April 26th, 2012, 17:24
It is vague on details, that being said, the guy in the videos is Jordan Weisman, creator of Shadowrun, Battletech, the I Love Bee's promotion for the launch of the Xbox, an Augmented Reality Innovator, and more..

Here's his wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Weisman

He's got a great team of industry professionals behind him, runs a number of companies and his current one HBS has already produced a great little game called Crimson: Steam Pirates, so they've got a proven track record.

I don't think there's much risk here, rather there a lot to gain.

This interview has something on writing design,

http://www.shacknews.com/article/734…jordan-weisman

I have to say, I'm a big fan of Shadowrun, and I can't wait for this.

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April 26th, 2012, 17:26
Yeah, I know who he is, and that's why I'm a backer. Just saying I'd give them more if they'd fill us in on exactly what this game is going to be like, instead of just throwing out things like t-shirts etc which I don't care about and just increases their overhead costs anyway.
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April 26th, 2012, 17:32
I suspect they haven't decided on the details yet, if they were to throw info out, it may end up being wrong which would cause a backlash, hence the vagueness.

To be fair Doublefine's adventure was lacking on details to! (for the same reasons)

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April 26th, 2012, 17:42
That is why I only backed Grim Dawn so far. I knew the team's previous work, I have seen footage of the game itself and was impressed in what they were offering and their ideas.
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April 26th, 2012, 17:51
Here's some collated info, from interviews and such from various interviews and comments by Jordan Weisman and others at HBS, this is what we know so far:

Shadowrun Returns will be a single-player (for now) 2D isometric adventure game with tactical combat. We believe this to mean you'll explore, environment (Seattle of the 2050' in the Shadowrun universe) as you explore a branching story/plotline, talk to NPC's in a manner similar to the original SNES Shadowrun game with dialogue options and keywords, and then when you encounter combat a turn-based tactical movement system will engage, allowing you to strategize your teams combat actions.

You will build your own character from the following races: human, elf, dwarf, ork and troll - and the following roles - Street Samurai, Mage, Shaman, Rigger, Decker (and possibly Physical Adept, if we hit the final goal).

Some info on those roles:

"Street Samurai see a threat assessment overlay of the environment that notes enemy appraisals, options for cover, potential weapons, and statistics for drawn weapons."

"Combat Mages see magical auras, granting them the ability to locate magical items, identify spells being prepared, and find the intersections of magic lay lines where they can recharge their power."

"Hackers/Deckers see the digital control circuitry that allows them to manipulate the physical world via the digital one."

"Shaman see the “true world” that lies in the astral plane, distinguishing the true nature of people, plants, creatures, and magical objects while buildings and other “dead” objects appear as mere shadows."

You will also be able to hire NPC's to fill out your "team" for missions , and potentially hire your friends characters for missions as well, which if successful will get them some nuyen (in-game currency) the next time they check on their character. You won't be able to permanently kill your firends character, but if an NPC or friends character dies on a mission with you, you will not be able to hire them again in that playthrough.

Hope that helps a little.

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April 26th, 2012, 18:19
Many thanks Daniel for all this information
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April 26th, 2012, 19:18
Thanks Daniel, that answers some questions I had about this project too. I was pretty leery about backing something that seemed so vague even though I used to love the Shadowrun tabletop RPG.
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April 26th, 2012, 19:23
Well, Stingray said it already but I'll go ahead and repeat it. I don't care who the guy is, watching a developer shill for money when he's already got four times what he asked for is really off-putting. There's nothing they could really offer beyond their original pitch that interests me. On the other hand, it's not at all hard to imagine some severe project bloat resulting from being overfunded by 300%.

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April 26th, 2012, 19:29
Happy to help! I just want the game to do as well as it can, I love Shadowrun, and a turn based RPG based on it sounds great!

Daniel.
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April 26th, 2012, 19:33
Hey Screeg,

That's fair enough, I just see it a little differently, I see a bigger better game with more to see and do.

Extra money got us stuff like this,

Marshall Parker, who wrote the music for the Super Nintendo game and Sam Powell, who wrote the music for the Sega Genesis game, have agreed to COLLABORATE on the music for Shadowrun Returns.

For me that is just all kinds of awesome!

Daniel.
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April 26th, 2012, 19:47
Yeah since Kickstarter works as all-or-nothing, the people pitching their projects don't start by asking for the optimal ammount equating to the budget for their complete vision for the project under ideal funding conditions. They generally start by asking for what it would cost to do the bare minimum that would still be worthwhile. Why this is the case should be fairly obvious - being all-or-nothing it wouldn't do for them to start with an ambitious goal which would fund everything they envision in the game because if they only reached say 95% of that then the project wouldn't happen at all (at least not likely through kickstarter.) So this isn't about project bloat as much as it is putting some meat on those bones.

You can generally tell when a project head is setting stretch goals that were part of their original vision for the game - that they maybe didn't beleive they could afford to pull off. Banner saga, for example, was still adding things from the original design (player owned cities) right to the very end. Adding things like better music isn't exactly project bloat nor is adding an additional class from the established PnP system. If they start adding in-game pets or a PnP tie-in module then we'll know they've probably run well past the scope of the original vision.

Given the flexibility of the project at this point (barely into the high level design phase) and the way costs for such productions scale, it's pretty hard to consider worries of project bloat more significant than misjudging cost overruns. At around 1.5 million (before reward fullfilment costs, transaction fees from Amazon Payments, and the 5% comission to kickstarter even) this is still a relatively low budget project as far as semi-open RPGs go. Any additional funds could easily be consumed and then some by hiring the bare-minimum staff to deliver the project as currently envisioned and the hiring of one or two additional artists or writers would probably eat up whatever they get between now and close.

The kind of bloat that does worry me though - with Kickstarter projects more generally at least - is reward bloat. I do worry when I see some projects piling on the physical rewards as they meet new stretch goals - these essentially reduce the efficiency of the whole crowd funding effort and some past projects have found they spent upwards of half their total raised on reward fulfillment. In this case I'm glad they've mostly been focused on adding things to the game (most of the last 500,000k was mentioned to be going to content besides the side mission that stole most of the attention) like a second major city, professionally composed/recorded music, additional classes, etc. To me that's not project bloat but fleshing out an otherwise skeletal sounding design and presentation.
Last edited by jhwisner; April 26th, 2012 at 20:16.
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April 26th, 2012, 20:16
I remember clearly that J.Weismann, in one of the videos, actually reduced the goals for the project. He initially said something about coop play or PvP deathmatchs, but they revoked the idea entirely, to maintain focus on the game. The add ons made later just only qualifies the game concept already promised. New OS clients, better music, new character classes, a exclusive mission, none of which compromise the project over the main goal: a highly contextual RPG with tactical combat system. They even justified the tactical combat in a comparison to the tabletop games, where everyone have the time to make decisions.

I pledged $60 bucks already, and don't go over just because the dollar to my currency conversion can steep up the price quite a bit.
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April 26th, 2012, 20:24
Originally Posted by darklord View Post
Hey Screeg,

That's fair enough, I just see it a little differently, I see a bigger better game with more to see and do.

Extra money got us stuff like this,

Marshall Parker, who wrote the music for the Super Nintendo game and Sam Powell, who wrote the music for the Sega Genesis game, have agreed to COLLABORATE on the music for Shadowrun Returns.

For me that is just all kinds of awesome!

Daniel.
Couldn't agree more. Who cares if he's trying to get as much as possible in a given amount of time. That's what I would do. Throw new additions that wouldn't be possible unless they had more money to hire additional people.

In any event, I didn't think I'd see another shadowrun game ever again. Let me rephrase, I never thought I'd see another PROPERLY DONE Shadowrun game. The last one I played was on the SNES and that that a ton of fun. Going to have to go get the ROM to play it again before this thing comes out.

Anyone play the genesis one? I didn't have a Genesis or would had played that one too. Was it any good?

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