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May 21st, 2012, 00:10
I'll have to add myself to the list of people for whom the story of D2 didn't make much of an impression. I was a huge D2 fan, I logged many hours with that game, especially when the expansion came out. The only thing I remember about the story was that you killed 3 prime evils and trapped them in soul stones. In fact I didn't even think it had much of a story beyond that.

Anyway just my take as a D2 fan, I don't think that I ever thought the story was anything to write home about. There are lots of games whose story made a great impression on me, but D2 was not one. It was still a great game.
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May 21st, 2012, 00:25
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
If I wrote a review - not having had one single disconnect - would you accuse me of taking bribes? I'm not marking a game down for something I didn't personally experience.
The thing is they did have disconnects, and say it is "intensely disappointing."

Originally Posted by EDGE
Perhaps Diablo’s learned too much from WOW, in fact. Its least lovable aspect is its mandatory Internet connection. This protects Blizzard from piracy and may help to slow the spread of auction corruption, but it casts out mods and opens the door for frustrating disconnects and freezing. This is a singleplayer game that you may struggle to load at first due to busy servers, or because America just woke up and everyone has logged on at once. It’s a corporate decision that affects you on a personal level, and so it’s hard not to see it as an imposition, an insult, and a worrying precedent. More immediately, Blizzard’s approach is just intensely disappointing: Diablo III’s an amazing place, and it’s a shame that you’ll never achieve the full sensation of ownership over it.
Seeing as how they acknowledge the issues why do they exclaim over it's "level of polish"? Surely a game with "intense disappointments" should not get a 9?

But sure I may have over-reacted, they may not be turning a blind eye to it's faults, it just doesn't seem to quite add up to me. Edge is normally quite on the ball. Odd…

Daniel.
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May 21st, 2012, 00:25
Nope, sorry. D2 had a plot? Maybe the plot - taken as a bullet-point outline- was better (?), but the in-game delivery was so poor as to render it meaningless for me.

Seriously?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubD5wkCG07g

As for "in game delivery" (are we considering the dialog cut-scenes that are in vogue now to be in-game delivery?) I can still remember how creepy I found the Mephisto boss fight the first dozen or so times I ran through it, as I can remember many other boss and mini-boss fights. Ask me which boss fights from Dragon Age had any sort of emotional impact on me? Most of them were just a cut-scene followed by an MMO style button mashing session.

Anyway, as I said in my last comment honesty seems a bit much to ask for in the computer game industry. Been that way a long time, which is one of the reasons the RPG genre is in such sorry shape. I'm not directing that at you specifically, it just seems to be a universal truth that people are heavily biased when it comes to games.
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May 21st, 2012, 02:44
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I thought it was very appropriate and engaging, but I couldn't care less about the story except as an initial goal to aim for. This game is a social experience for me - and the whole trading/cooperation/competition aspect is what keeps the game meaningful in terms of time spent. Even if I tend to play the game mostly solo - I have plenty of friends playing it - and there are millions of other players. So it's sort of a little separate world akin to an MMO. But unlike an MMO, you don't have to commit your life if you want to compete at the top. Aside from that, there's the whole RMAH angle, which I think most people have underestimated in terms of long-term impact. I know people keep telling me it'll never make anyone much money, but I'm far from convinced that has to be the case.

As a singleplayer game, though, I'd be hard pressed to find a more pointless experience - and I probably wouldn't even bother going through Normal - except perhaps once for the cinematics.

People who want to play it as as singleplayer game simply don't "get" what the whole design is about. It's not that it can't be played that way - but it's less than 1% of the potential and intended experience.
I'm playing it single player and finding it quite enjoyable. I think I "get" the design quite well. To say that the single player version represents only 1 percent of the experience makes me think that maybe you don't totally "get" the game design.
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May 21st, 2012, 04:02
Meh, I made the mistake of buying this game and I'm not terribly pleased with it. I was a huge fan of Diablo 2 but there's just so many things wrong with Diablo 3…

Online-only DRM: I've been kicked from the game over 15 times now. This is unacceptable. They were not prepared for launch at ALL.

UI: Very poorly thought out and regressive. Character can't move while the map is up? WTF??? Inventory covers minimap? Tooltips that work when they feel like it? Chat area is small are you can't resize it. There is no custom chatrooms. No way to talk to friends in-game other than PMs, unlike D2.

Loot: Uniques are worthless. Blue items are often better then them. The entire game is designed to force you to use the auction house (which I'm sure is why Blizzard is monetizing it with real money) The vast majority of loot you get is for many levels below you, literally forcing you to the auction house in higher difficulties if you want any chance of surviving. This is clearly by design.

Bosses: After the first kill on only the first difficulty, bosses drop worse loot than basic mobs. Awful.

Party play: Only 4 people in a group? Weak.
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May 21st, 2012, 04:16
People are heavily biased when it comes to games, however this applies just as much to you as it does to the reviewers. Some people are so heavily biased that they are unable to accept the fact that someone reviewing a game might have a different opinion then they do. And then they accuse them of bribery or dishonesty.

Originally Posted by CraigCWB View Post
Anyway, as I said in my last comment honesty seems a bit much to ask for in the computer game industry. Been that way a long time, which is one of the reasons the RPG genre is in such sorry shape. I'm not directing that at you specifically, it just seems to be a universal truth that people are heavily biased when it comes to games.
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May 21st, 2012, 05:51
Originally Posted by CraigCWB View Post
With all due respect, you're hardly the one to be calling me biased if you didn't even like what is universally accepted to be the best action RPG to date well enough to finish it once
I didn't say you were biased, I said you're obviously a fan of the way Blizzard narrates their games, and I also said there's nothing wrong with that. I've been a fan of Blizzard since the original Warcraft. I just wasn't particularly impressed with Diablo 2.

As far as being "universally accepted as the best action-rpg to date".. maybe if you're talking specifically about the sub-genre of Diablo and its clones. Otherwise, "action-RPG" is a pretty broad term.



Originally Posted by CraigCWB View Post
I bet if people were honest (a lot to ask, I know) most here would admit they can still remember the storyline of D2, and probably even quote some of the lines from it.
So everyone who doesn't share your opinion of Diablo 2 is being dishonest? Ok…
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May 21st, 2012, 06:49
Originally Posted by fadedc View Post
Given how many people on these boards alone clearly love the game, it amazes me that people assume that for a reviewer to give the game a high score, then they must have been bought off. There are clearly lots of people who have not been bribed who would give it similarly high scores.
I have never stated they are bought off, just the fact that they hardly ever criticize big releases, even if there are some glaring issues with them. Or if they do point out problems, the final score does not reflect that. I do not speculate why it is so - although the fact that any site will probably lose any chance to publish pre-release reviews if they don't give high enough score, is probably important.
And I accept the fact that many people give it high score, but they do not aspire to be "gaming journalist", so I have much lesser expectations. Journalists should have higher standards.
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May 21st, 2012, 07:38
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
The atmosphere and use of lore in D3 are so far ahead of D2 they aren't even playing the same sport. I don't understand how you could get hung up on the plot in an ARPG when D3's moment-to-moment use of lore is so much better.
Because the main story is what's supposed to drive you. Not the lore books about random monsters. Because the story in D3 pretty much throws everything that happened in D1/2 to the garbage bin. Did you play D1 and D2 and catch all the problems with D3? It has so many unexplained things and plot-holes that it's not even funny.

Spoiler


D2 might not have had much lore, but the main story was way better developed. And while I agree D3 has great atmosphere from the visual standpoint, D2 was also great in that sense. And I dare say D2 had way better music. Much more memorable, in that I can still remember tunes from Lut Gholein and Harrogath.
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May 21st, 2012, 07:54
This is like reading posts from a schizophrenic. My god guys, the game is good and fun…yes it had launch issues. But to anyone who likes arpg's yes, it's a 9.

It blows my mind how many threads we get here on any game that is by a big publisher house in how it doesn't deserve it's scores and when an average game comes out from a small publisher it deserves better. Don't you guys get tired?

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May 21st, 2012, 10:08
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Have you tried getting any of your friends to join you? Also, you don't actually have to play cooperative with anyone to enjoy some of the MP aspects, like the AH system.

For me, it's enough to know that there are people playing the same game in the same world - and that you can interact with them to gain advantages and share experiences. Even the most isolated hermit in the real world is probably going to prefer that other people exist somewhere.
I used to have a group of friends that I played with, but we all went separate ways. I then tried playing with others and that's where all the bs began. I didn't really know anybody else who liked these types of games so i simply played them all solo. I've done it for so long I am used to it now and have no desire to return to mp.

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May 21st, 2012, 11:18
Well, to complain about the story in a Diablo game…. Diablo have never even had any story beyond there is a big evil you have to kill it. So if you started D3 expecting a good story… well… I don't know what you were thinking.
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May 21st, 2012, 12:06
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
Well, to complain about the story in a Diablo game…. Diablo have never even had any story beyond there is a big evil you have to kill it. So if you started D3 expecting a good story… well… I don't know what you were thinking.
No. Diablo 2 had a story that was half decent. D3's story just trampled all that. I mean it's that stupid. It's predictable and badly written.
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May 21st, 2012, 12:27
That's subjective, though.

I wouldn't give it any awards for innovation or originality, but it kept me reasonably engaged on my first playthrough - and that's about as much as I think anyone can realistically expect from a genre where story is secondary by design.

Oh, I can't change that some people apparently really hated the story - but that seems a bit of an exaggeration to me. Then again, we all react differently to different kinds of tales and delivery.

I get a negative physical reaction from playing modern Bioware games, for instance - and I know lots of people who think their stories are "epic" and meaningful.

My own preference is pretty far removed from the norm in computer games, and I've never been particularly interested in "Gods and Demons" as the material for something to move me or otherwise make me feel much.

It's way too "out there" to be relevant to my own existence or thought process. But it can be done well - and I think all the Diablo games handle this kind of tale pretty good.

That said, I think I prefer the lore of the original Diablo - even if much of that was in the manual and the very end sequence. That's because I like the dark gothic material more than the high fantasy fluff with pop-culture references.
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May 21st, 2012, 12:38
I find the story on par with the one in D2. It's certainly not fantastic, but it gets the job done.
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May 21st, 2012, 15:51
As with all Diablo games, I play for the atmosphere, not the story, and the atmosphere is fine IMO. But, as others have said, we are deep into subjective territory here. Some folks obviously appreciate Blizzard's approach to story and lore; some people enjoy the Bioware approach of deep dialogue trees etc. It's akin to liking a pepperoni and mushroom pizza vs. one with feta cheese and black olives.

But, all that said, the gameplay is strong, which is why I believe the game deserves the 9's it has been getting, especially when thinking of it as a multiplayer game with extremely long legs.
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May 21st, 2012, 19:13
Originally Posted by regomar View Post
Loot: Uniques are worthless. Blue items are often better then them. The entire game is designed to force you to use the auction house (which I'm sure is why Blizzard is monetizing it with real money) The vast majority of loot you get is for many levels below you, literally forcing you to the auction house in higher difficulties if you want any chance of surviving. This is clearly by design.

Bosses: After the first kill on only the first difficulty, bosses drop worse loot than basic mobs. Awful.
I find this especially egregious.
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May 21st, 2012, 20:41
Originally Posted by Falchor View Post
As with all Diablo games, I play for the atmosphere, not the story, and the atmosphere is fine IMO. But, as others have said, we are deep into subjective territory here. Some folks obviously appreciate Blizzard's approach to story and lore; some people enjoy the Bioware approach of deep dialogue trees etc. It's akin to liking a pepperoni and mushroom pizza vs. one with feta cheese and black olives.

But, all that said, the gameplay is strong, which is why I believe the game deserves the 9's it has been getting, especially when thinking of it as a multiplayer game with extremely long legs.
Well, I think adding mushrooms to the pepperoni pizza and olives to the feta cheese pizza is decadent is disgusting ! What do you have to say about subjectiveness now ??!!
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May 21st, 2012, 20:45
Originally Posted by danutz_plusplus View Post
No. Diablo 2 had a story that was half decent. D3's story just trampled all that. I mean it's that stupid. It's predictable and badly written.
I played through diablo 2 twice, and diablo 1 as well.

As far as I know they didn't have a story, at least I didn't notice it. But perhaps you saw something I didn't. Well atleast not beyond there are evil devil brothers, dead are rising, you must kill all. Either way if you like a good story there are a lot of other RPG's I could reccomend…. none would look for it in a Diablo game, and blizzard knows this very well, so they don't invest in the story.
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May 21st, 2012, 20:46
Originally Posted by danutz_plusplus View Post
No. Diablo 2 had a story that was half decent.
I played D2 all the way through twice and partway through many times and I can't recall anything of the plot other than you killed everything and then went on to a new area where you killed everything and then … OK, there were some cut scenes but I don't remember what they were about. Sorry.

While I enjoyed D1 and D2 I haven't even been tempted to get D3 for some reason.
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