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Default Wizardry 7 - The Best Class System

June 24th, 2012, 15:19
Joystiq's regular RPG columnist Rowan Kaiser argues Wizardry VII has the best ever RPG class system:
One of the defining characteristics of the role-playing genre is its class systems. Although not every RPG has classes Fallout or The Witcher, for example some tend to be notable for their lack of classes. In some games, class is a single, permanent decision at the beginning of your adventure, and in others it's something that can be manipulated throughout. In most cases, though, it is the single most important aspect in determining how your characters interact with the game world. Thieves sneak and back stab, fighters charge in and absorb damage, snipers shoot from a distance.

The most impressive class system I've seen in an RPG is in 1992's Wizardry VII: Crusaders of the Dark Savant (as well as its less well-known predecessor, Bane Of The Cosmic Forge). What initially appears to be a straightforward, rigid D&D-style system is given massive depth by two things: the importance of racial base stats in determining class, and a dynamic system that allows for both massive improvement and possible disaster. It's possibly the most in-depth system I've seen in any RPG, and one that I wish was more well-known.
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June 24th, 2012, 15:19
I agree - party building in Wizardy is pure fun.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
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June 24th, 2012, 21:01
Totally. I lost hours just trying to make the perfect, balanced party in this game.


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June 24th, 2012, 21:08
I need to give Wizardry 7 another try someday. The problem is that I played Wizardry 8 first, and Wiz 7 didn't age all that well without any nostalgia to help out.
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June 24th, 2012, 21:55
What's the difference between Wizardry 7 and 8 when it comes to party building? I thought W8 was the best for party building, but haven't played W7.
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June 24th, 2012, 23:10
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
What's the difference between Wizardry 7 and 8 when it comes to party building? I thought W8 was the best for party building, but haven't played W7.
Its been a while since I played either, but I don't recall any major differences between the character/party creation of the two games.
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June 25th, 2012, 00:55
is a Faerie Ninja with the Blade Cuisinart (CRPGLOL) even possible in Wiz 8 without Wiz 7?

Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
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June 25th, 2012, 03:12
One of these days, when I'm caught up on my backlog of games, I need to replay Wizardry 7 and 8… good times.
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June 25th, 2012, 03:54
Wizardry 6 was my favorite, I played through Wizardry 7 twice as well, but I never liked it quite as much. But it was still a good game. But I thought that the pacing in 6 was far superior.

It was interesting reading about the character creation system, but I never actually experienced that on any of my playthroughs. I always just picked a class and stuck to it. But the game might have been more interesting if I had known that.
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June 25th, 2012, 04:29
For the longest time I considered Wiz 7 the best game ever. Now, don't ask me why as I played that game in like 92 or something, but yes it was quite good back then. I think if I remember correctly, one of the things I liked the most was that things were happening in the world while you played, and other groups were going for what you wanted too.

But yes, I agree the character/party system was the best. I also spent like an hour or more just thinking how my party composition would be. That's something that sadly has disappeared. First, games changed so you would only create one character, while the others joined you later (BG, PST, NWN, etc). Then, party based games almost disappeared and now you only created/played the one character. And after that, you wouldn't even create the character, he would just pop in the world as a nobody (Gothics, Skyrim, etc) and you would develop the character while playing. I hate that! Give me some decisions to make before the game starts please!
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June 25th, 2012, 05:13
Legend of Grimrock does that to a small extent at least!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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June 25th, 2012, 10:31
Well, you'll spend more time making characters in wiz 7 compared to wiz 8 since they changed the dice rolls system for wiz 8. For wiz 7 you could spend forever on rolls just to get a good lord.
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June 25th, 2012, 15:50
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Legend of Grimrock does that to a small extent at least!!
Yeah, but a compromise would be nice. Wiz7 and the Arkania games had me creating characters for hours. Grimrock takes all of 5 minutes. Something in between would be ideal. Maybe predone "classes" that you add a face & voice/personality to as an option for people that want to start playing right away. Those that are cool with playing with the numbers could have that much more flexibility.
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June 25th, 2012, 16:39
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
Well, you'll spend more time making characters in wiz 7 compared to wiz 8 since they changed the dice rolls system for wiz 8. For wiz 7 you could spend forever on rolls just to get a good lord.
Yes! Lord was always the class that took the longest for me. As much as I enjoyed it when I was 14, I can't stand it now. Game time is at a premium these days.
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June 25th, 2012, 17:19
D&D 3.5 > All - in terms of a class system.

But I like the Wizardy system. It's just a pity that most of the fun stuff isn't visualised in some way.
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June 25th, 2012, 18:24
Wiz VII is still my all-time favorite. But…

Class-changing system was really broken. Munchkins like me cannot withstand the drive to change classes on low-level to maximize skills. Thats why D.L. Bradley changed it in Wizards and Warriors.

Im still curious which way Cleve will choose for Grimoire :-D
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