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April 29th, 2007, 18:05
Jeff Vogel has posted an update on the progress of Avernum 5:
The lumbering beast has finally begun to move. I have completed the first section / town / adventure / tutorial. I'm not sure if I'll be able to get it out much before Christmas, but it's certainly moving.

The tutorial section is much more of an adventure than before, with scripted events, actual fights, and it gets you involved in the plot. The plot, as promised, is very intricate, and the political intrigue begins pretty much immediately.

I'm having a bit more fun writing the dialogue, because the setup for this Avernum game is very different from the previous games. Your starting position is, it's safe to say, completely opposite from what it was before.

There are secret doors. But they work differently than they did before. (They'd really have to.) You will never have to find one to complete the game.

I am concentrating to cut down on the trash and have a smaller number of bigger fights. This will make the game more interesting for groups, but more punishing for single characters. I will do my best to make sure a singleton can still complete the game on the lower difficulty levels. One change … smaller parties will get experience from creatures at higher levels than 4 person parties do.

- Jeff Vogel
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April 29th, 2007, 18:05
Nice to see that he is taking fan feedback to heart in a major way. What was the problem with secret doors in the others to warrant a change?
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April 29th, 2007, 19:58
I just can't wait to get into this one with the context of his latest two articles … to see if he took his own advice and see what it looks like.

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April 29th, 2007, 20:03
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
I just can't wait to get into this one with the context of his latest two articles … to see if he took his own advice and see what it looks like.

I didn't even think of that. I just figured that since I think combat in agmes would be a lot better if it was more challanging and far less common it would be much better that other people that like his games would also. But you are right, the last two articles slammed grind fest combat, which is a staple in his games. But, in order to inflate my ego, I like to believe I and my comments over the years are directly resposible for this change
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April 29th, 2007, 20:10
Originally Posted by roqua View Post
But, in order to inflate my ego, I like to believe I and my comments over the years are directly responsible for this change
Yes, of course that is the truth, but since he is the dev, in order to stroke his own ego he has to seal your ideas, write them into a series of articles, then implement them so he can take credit from multiple angles simultaneously …

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April 29th, 2007, 20:17
Well, to be fair to mr. idea stealer, his articles were not at all about my complaints. My complaint, across the board for every rpg, is that combat was far too easy and far to common, and would be inproved by being far more difficult and not common. I would rather have one great battle that lasts as long as 30 stupid battles would last in every rpg.

His article was more slanted towards having to build up your character through grind fest time sinks. He also used action games and fps's as a model of good, something I never ever would have decided on. Either way, I take full credit for this great change and expect a lot of pm's thanking me for being a genius.
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April 29th, 2007, 20:24
Originally Posted by roqua View Post
Nice to see that he is taking fan feedback to heart in a major way. What was the problem with secret doors in the others to warrant a change?
Secret doors in Avernum 4 (which I think is where he took the most complaints from) were only there if they were important. In other words you pretty much had to find it in order to complete a quest or further the narrative.

I'm almost done with the game and there have only been a few secret doors, and each time (as far as I can remember) I pretty much had to find that secret door or things wouldn't move forward.

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April 29th, 2007, 20:32
Was that a big complaint? I didn't mind it, but some fluff secret stuff wouldn't hurt either. I'm not a huge fa of cache's, but again, its a nice extra.
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April 30th, 2007, 00:03
Originally Posted by roqua View Post
Was that a big complaint? I didn't mind it, but some fluff secret stuff wouldn't hurt either. I'm not a huge fa of cache's, but again, its a nice extra.
It was annoying since they weren't always obvious enough to find, especially to guys that hadn't figured out they always show up on your map.

To be honest, it didn't bother me either.
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April 30th, 2007, 16:36
Originally Posted by Brother None View Post
It was annoying since they weren't always obvious enough to find, especially to guys that hadn't figured out they always show up on your map.

To be honest, it didn't bother me either.
Hmm, a bit hard to complain about the fact that secret doors in the game are not obvious to find. If they were, they wouldn't be very secret
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April 30th, 2007, 17:02
To be fair, if you don't know you need to find a secret door to advance the plot, I could definitely see how that could be annoying.

In fact, to this day there is a secret door somewhere in EoB2 that I can't find. I've been stuck in the spider maze for like 10 years. I should check a walkthrough but at this point it is a principal of pride. I combed every square inch of every where in the game I have access to so far, painstankingly looking at every wall and floor, clicking, clicking, clicking on anything and everything. It is probably some puzzle in somewhere else I haven't even realized is a puzzle.
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April 30th, 2007, 18:39
Originally Posted by KasperFauerby View Post
Hmm, a bit hard to complain about the fact that secret doors in the game are not obvious to find. If they were, they wouldn't be very secret
Then I would argue that there is no point in implementing certain game items, like secret doors and traps, "just because", when all they do is annoy the player and not add anything to the gameplay experience.

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