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Default Global warming one big hoax?

August 2nd, 2007, 10:25
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
One minor point. The rules I teach for interpreting the Bible correctly, are not based on faith or blind obedience, but on sound, logical academic principles. One of the foremost of these, is the absolutely essential nature of determining scope and context. Only charlatans use quotes out of context, and often that context can be several layers deep. For example, there is the immediate context determined by the verses on either side; there is the context based on the theme or scope of the chapter in which the quote is found; then there is the context of the scope and purpose of the book in which it resides. All of these must be taken into account, along with the sense inherent in the choice of words used in the original language. There is MUCH more than this to proper Bible interpretation, but my point is that it ALL is based on academic rigor, not my preferred personal belief. To be honest, there are some passages in the Bible I don't like, but they are there and I have to deal with them. The problem we have today, is that there are far too many people out there with a very limited knowledge of proper Bible interpretation who are spouting forth their ignorance on both sides of the debate!!
@Corwin — I'm interested. Which method of exegetics do you mean? Historical-critical? Second, what do you do with the results — do you try to tease the meaning out of the passages and apply it to your own life, or are you simply interested in understanding what the people who wrote it thought, whether you agree or not?
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August 2nd, 2007, 10:41
Moses Maimonides described the law as: "If one slays a single Israelite, he transgresses a negative commandment, for Scripture says, Thou shalt not murder. If one murders wilfully in the presence of witnesses, he is put to death by the sword. Needless to say, one is not put to death if he kills a heathen."

Maimonides is by no means the only one who have interpreted this line this way. Throughout history the "Thou shalt not kill" rule have always been interpreted "Thou should not kill thoose of your kind", and thus have not stopped to kill people outside your clan, tribe, nationality, race or religion as well as thoose who have broken rules which are seen as important for the group which includes murder, treason, witchcraft, blasphemy, rape, adultery, homosexuality etc etc. Deutoronomy is widely discussed if it still applies or not. Some say it does, since Jesus proclaimed that no law should be changed, and Deutoronomy is the law. Other say it does not since Jesus fulfilled the law and thus it what changed. In Deutoronomy almost everything is punishable by death.

Many christians object against gays openly. When you go through the bible and find the few instances that mentions something that can be explained as "homosexuality is wrong" and then read the rest of the same passages you will find that every single of them contains laws that would be absolutely barbaric in our modern society. But homophobes enjoy evoking the bible still to win arguments.
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August 2nd, 2007, 11:28
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
Throughout history the "Thou shalt not kill" rule have always been interpreted "Thou should not kill thoose of your kind"…
You're backpedaling. You originally stated that the commandment explicitly referred to "neighbors" or "kin," but now you're stating that it has often been interpreted that way. That's rather different (not to mention something of a platitude).
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August 2nd, 2007, 11:30
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
You are quite wrong to say this, since it is very simple.
Yes, they are Christians, but they are not extremist in any way.
How can you tell what version of all interpretions of the bible they believe in?

Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
And you're talking about removing civil liberties. Then look at France, quite a big country and you know what ? People aren't even allowed to dress how they want in public. Religious people of any faith aren't allowed to wear their clothes, clothes which they have worn for generations. They can't by law wear them. And you're saying only religion will take civil liberties away.
I read about the law. I cannot say that I care. It's your authoritys decision what you can wear or not, and I see no reason why religion or political ideologies need to be treated with some form of exalted respect above everybody else. We sure do not give any respect to neonazis to use the swastika which have been forbidden around here for quite some time.

Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
Spread there ? Yes, maybe, no. They've been there for more than 400 years. Ever since the Spanish and Portuguese settled in South America.
You're right about being aware of political movements globally. What about Great Britain bringing armed men on the street for 'protection' of its civilians after the bombings and stopped bombings. Great Britain isn't really so religious, they have a socialist party at its top. All the arrests being made now… Are you telling me those are not invasions of civil liberties?
UK is basicly in a political civil war regarding religious rights and it will take awhile to see who's the winner. A law has been presented that will reintroduce toughtcrimes, sodomy and reduce freedom of speech to please islam. It will take effect in 1-2 years unless rebuked. You have actual terror from Islam there as well. Several british schools received books with Intelligent Design before the school board banned the books right before christmas last year. Then you have, luckily, a rather strong atheism lobby. Earlier this year atheists from all over UK gathered money to buy copies of "The God Delusion" to send to every politician in their government. It took less than 2 months to gather enough money to buy the several hundred books needed. In a recent UK poll a majority voted that religion cause more harm than good although we ofcourse need to take such polls with a grain of salt. There have also been several british atheist documentaries on national television recently which have increased peoples awareness.

Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
But I'm not saying 'it's people', I'm saying 'it's extremism'.
Every child have the potential of being an extremist. It's all depending on what they are learnt.

Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
So, you mean to say they'll bomb Sweden because it's an atheistic country ?
There have been quite a few comments regarding sweden coming from the extreme groups which is uncomfortable.

Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
So do most people in Belgium and in the rest of the world, including the US.
Not according to the polls.

Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
Not really. Atheism as a sense of belief is quite new to the public. Not every one knows exactly what it stands for yet. AND if it stands for anti-religion fanaticism then people won't vote for atheists.
What does worry me is that so few people still wouldn't vote for homosexuals and that there are substantially less people who would vote for a woman.
There is a negative attachment to the word which is why many try to find different names to call themselves. Secular humanists, brights, disbeliever, sceptic, rationalist etc.

Im pretty proud over our recent group of leaders. Many of our top ministers are women, our finance minister is openly gay, our integrations minister is black, female and believe openly that Islam is dangerous. Our school minister also wants to abolish the right to open faithschools to radical groups. The only party who are against homosexual weddings (christian democrats) have less than 4% of the voters, however, the christian democrats have nothing against stemcell research or abortions. The first upgrade they did in our school curricilum was to make sure that children of today learned more about the dangers of communism.

Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
If you're talking about scientists, no. About corporations, I do though.
Corporations gladly find people with academic titles to support them yes. I am not so happy about that, but at least it's considered unethic and they risk their careers.

Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
I think it was just a year ago that they declared a third mistrial in the case against John Gotti Jr., the son of John Gotti, leader of the Gambino family IIRC.
I even used to know people who were working in the Falconplein in Antwerpen. It used to be a place where you could get anything you wanted cheaper, since everything was stolen, just as you see in the mob movies and series. They hijacked trucks full of electronics and just sold them in their stores. After 20 years of successful business, most of them moved out of the country since the police were at last catching some of them. So, no, they're not really keeping criminals out.
There's a difference between getting them in and throwing them out. We usually throw out leaders who misbehave. We have regulations on the regulators and when that do not help we have democracy on top of it.
Last edited by JemyM; August 2nd, 2007 at 13:21.
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August 2nd, 2007, 11:38
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
You're backpedaling. You originally stated that the commandment explicitly referred to "neighbors" or "kin," but now you're stating that it has often been interpreted that way. That's rather different (not to mention something of a platitude).
First you have the original texts, then you have translations, then you have interpretions. Originally the translations speak about "neighbor" which have in turn been interpreted as "the people closest to you". Also there are translators who claim that the word translated to "neighbor" is not "neighbor" at all, instead within context it can means many things. The point is, the bible is a mess to use for anything more than fiction. It cannot be used as a guide since it's too contradicting and can basicly be used to support everything depending on how you use it.
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August 2nd, 2007, 12:51
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
First you have the original texts, then you have translations, then you have interpretions. Originally the translations speak about "neighbor" which have in turn been interpreted as "the people closest to you". Also there are translators who claim that the word translated to "neighbor" is not "neighbor" at all, instead within context it can means many things. The point is, the bible is a mess to use for anything more than fiction. It cannot be used as a guide since it's too contradicting and can basicly be used to support everything depending on how you use it.
Which translations would these be? I'm admittedly only a dilettante when it comes to exegetics, but I'm not aware of any translation that renders "thou shalt not kill" as "thou shalt not kill thy neighbor."

As to the Bible being a mess, that's a different question altogether. I rather prefer Woody Allen's way of putting it — "God is a very uneven writer." ;-)
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August 2nd, 2007, 12:54
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
This website is driven by one of George Bush's advisors:
http://www.godhatessweden.com
JemyM, I'm starting to dislike the way you play fast and loose with the facts. The Rev. Fred Phelps also runs this website [ http://www.godhatesamerica.com/index.html ].

Just because he's a religious nutjob doesn't mean he supports, let alone advises Bush.
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August 2nd, 2007, 13:16
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
I would like to reply to you Pladio, but one of my 3 day migraines have started making it difficult for me to get words together.
Is it that what makes you this person, because then I can have a small bit of sympathy again for you?

so very, very tired (Star Trek XI quote according to the Simpsons)
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August 2nd, 2007, 13:19
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
JemyM, I'm starting to dislike the way you play fast and loose with the facts. The Rev. Fred Phelps also runs this website [ http://www.godhatesamerica.com/index.html ].

Just because he's a religious nutjob doesn't mean he supports, let alone advises Bush.
Sorry, you are right. I confused him with the southern baptists.
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August 2nd, 2007, 18:29
Since I mostly forgot what I wrote down last time, I'll just link to several movies with people discussing what we are discussing now (on both sides of the aisle though).

(All these movies are shown on www.ted.com)

Atheist call to Arms, by professor Richard Dawkins

A life of purpose, by pastor Rick Warren

He's talking about finding your purpose of life by giving up as much as possible and about how people's materialism.

Rebuttal to pastor Rick Warren, by professor Dan Dennet

All of these movies are very interesting. I'm watching others too. I'll post other movies once I watch them.
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August 2nd, 2007, 22:03
Christopher Hitchens, speaks strongly about religion, the importance of free speech and the threat of radical Islam.

Bible Unearthed, the documentary based on the book that compares archeology and the bible.

Who wrote the bible?, british documentary on youtube that tries to finds the root of the old testament, the new testament, how its translated and the agendas which changed the message over time.

Ken Miller (Roman Catholic) rips Intelligent Design apart in 2 hours and speaks about why Evolution won in court. The movie also tells about the recent discoveries regarding evolution.

The Naked Truth, a bit dated (slow paced) documentary comparing christianity and other religions, egyptian mythology and astrology.
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August 3rd, 2007, 15:09
I saw this on the news last night.
It's not certain yet, but that's how it seems to be going.
Belgium is going to keep its nuclear power plants for two important reasons.
The first one is that it produces a lot of energy. The second one is that since Belgium has signed the Kyoto agreement, they will have to try and stand by it and nuclear power plants don't generate CO2.

So, now instead of having CO2 polluting the earth Belgium will produce more nuclear waste which will then be send to poor countries.
The only thing I see can help the earth against global warming is invest in new alternative technologies, since otherwise we just keep polluting the earth.
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August 3rd, 2007, 15:22
I'd like to see more investment in (and publicity for) accelerator-driven subcritical nuclear reactors. The idea is that you point a particle accelerator at a suitable metal target, and surround the target with nuclear fuel. The particles from the accelerator knock slow neutrons off the target, which then maintain the fission reaction in the fuel. No chain reaction, and easily adjustable power output — for more power, increase the particle flow, for less power, decrease it, for an emergency shutdown, just pull the plug on the accelerator.

The really nice thing, however, is that this type of reactor can produce electricity from a far wider variety of elements than conventional nuclear power — in particular, nuclear waste. In fact, it's just about the only way we could actually process nuclear waste into a (relatively) innocuous form, *and* produce power into the bargain.

The downside is that it would be much easier to use this type of reactor as a "breeder" to produce Pu-239 or other weapons-grade stuff; IOW it's not something you'd want to just hand over to the North Koreans for example.

And, of course, it's not something you can knock together in your garage; there are significant technical problems to overcome. Still, if I had to put money on it, I'd bet that it'd be easier to pull off than commercial-level fusion power.

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subcritical_reactor ]
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August 3rd, 2007, 15:52
Hasn't fusion still a long way to go before becoming a reality ?
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August 3rd, 2007, 16:12
It's been "about 30 years from now" since 1950 or so. They're past the break-even point (i.e., more energy comes out than goes in), but yeah, they are a long way from commercializing it. That's why I think ADS has a better chance of success, not to mention that it'd get rid of that nasty waste we're currently producing.
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August 3rd, 2007, 19:17
If it's past the break-even point, then it means they found out how to do it then why aren't they getting any further ?
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August 3rd, 2007, 19:27
They are, but it's slow going. It's hard enough to build a containment chamber that'll keep the reaction going long enough that more energy comes out than went in to start it; it's much, much harder to build a containment chamber that'll keep the reaction going indefinitely, which is what you'll need to be able to produce electricity in commercially viable quantities.
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August 3rd, 2007, 19:55
The technology for hydrogen is out there. There are already prototype cars running on it.
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August 3rd, 2007, 20:34
That has nothing to do with nuclear fusion.
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August 3rd, 2007, 21:45
Nuclear fusion is a long way aways. It might be viable, but not for another twenty or thirty years.

Here are the real time energy solutions that probably will happen in the next five years. Out of a number of technologies these seem pretty promising.

1) Plasma furnace for incinerating garbage— 99.99% conversion rate, almost no particulates. With a scrubber you get for practical purposes no emissions.

2) Wave turbines, like wind turbines but underwater, hydrokinetic energy.

3) Distributed hydroelectric— smaller turbine generators for rivers, that can be distributed over a wide area without damming.

4) Low wind speed— 5MPH wind turbines.

5) Ethanol from cellulose. Verenium is the chief proponent of this. Biodiesel from algae, Solix, Green Energy Technologies, Verasun, and a few other companies are working on this. Algae biodiesel in combination with cellulosic ethanol has the potential to produce as much energy as oil.
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