|
Your continuous donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » Completed Two Worlds, my thoughts on it..

Default Completed Two Worlds, my thoughts on it..

May 14th, 2007, 16:45
I dunno… would someone please tell me why people always draw comparisons to Gothic? Maybe I missed something in this thread, but from all I could gather this is a game much more like Oblivion? Or am I wrong?
Ionstormsucks is offline

Ionstormsucks

Ionstormsucks's Avatar
Major Villain

#21

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 760

Default 

May 14th, 2007, 17:35
I think the comparisions to Gothic 3 has something to do with the fact that both games are made in Europe, and have a German Publisher.
aries100 is offline

aries100

SasqWatch
RPGWatch Team RPGWatch Donor

#22

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark, Europe
Posts: 2,018

Default 

May 14th, 2007, 18:06
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Regarding Oblivion:
I am a powergamer, I won't deny that. I pick up a quest, autotravel to the target, complete the quest. Repeat. Every quest in Oblivion is so short and straightforward it takes very little time to do it. A few minuttes per quest. Remember, Morrowind had no autotravel, compass or complete guide to every quest (the questlog in Oblivion tells you exactly what to do). Exploring and discovering takes time in ES3, but in ES4 there is no such element unless you enjoy finding pointless ruins all over. The only quests that actually took time were the main quest and daedric shrines, and maybe some of the guild quests. I'd say every guild + main quest would take me around 20 hours, another 10 on the daedric shrines, and then 20 to complete the jump-to-target sidequests, due to the high number and low difficulty of them all.
On a replay… maybe… if you click through the dialogues like mad w/o reading/listening to them and if you also refuse to use the bathroom and if you generally neglect any and all real-world distractions but on a first run through Oblivion, there's no chance in hell that anyone would be able to do all the guild quests, the main quest, the main city quests and the shrine quests in 50 hours.

If you actually read/listen to the dialogue and read the journal entries etc (as someone who isn't a "powergamer" like you would do on their first playthrough) then I would assume that the minimum for doing all of the above would be 80 hours, even for an experienced gamer.
Besides, who in their right mind just runs past enemies to avoid combat only to get the quests finished ASAP? Not many people… except powergamers like you but then I think that you should have made that more clear in your Two Worlds blurb since it's giving people who have not played Oblivion and who aren't "elite" powergamers like you a wrong perspective on the game length of Two Worlds.
Honestly, did you even read a single dialogue or quest description in Two Worlds or Oblivion or did you just truck through it like mad so you could make a "Yay, first!" post?


BTW, for those who are wondering why some people outside of Germany, Austria, Switzerland are playing the game, it's because the game's online activation system has already been haXX0red and the German Royal Edition includes the English language version so the game is sort of available for ummm… "digital download" with free worldwide shipping .
Last edited by Moriendor; May 14th, 2007 at 18:14.
Moriendor is offline

Moriendor

Moriendor's Avatar
Spielkind

#23

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Schland
Posts: 1,905

Default 

May 14th, 2007, 18:10
Originally Posted by KasperFauerby View Post
So, did the german release come as a multi-language release, or did you play the game in german?
As I wrote in another thread:

Yes, there are. But you need to buy the Royal Edition (CE). It contains languages for English, German, French and subtitles for Italian and Spanish.

The standard edition sold in Germany is completely German though you can make a walk around of this, because when installing the patches you can choose to install them in English, which makes all the menus and text in the game English. The only thing that remain German is the voices.

Steam | Google
Asbjoern is offline

Asbjoern

Asbjoern's Avatar
N'wah

#24

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Aarhus (EU)
Posts: 733

Default 

May 14th, 2007, 19:07
First of all, no, my version is not illegal, as I explained in a previous post, but yes, there are copy versions out as far as I know.

The comparison to Gothic 3 isn't really to that game alone, it's to place it between Oblivion and Gothic 3. Make no misstake, it's not as mindless as Oblivion, and the creatures/exploring feels much more like Gothic 3 than Oblivion, because there is actually danger around - no level scaling means you suddenly bump into things that will kill you in a single hit. In some aspects it is similar to Gothic 3, in others it is similar to Oblivion. It's somewhere inbetween.

@Moriendor:
Remember, I played an un-modded version of Oblivion. No extra quests or addons. The main quest itself is very short actually, as long as you use autotravel. No, I do not listen to the dialogue - I read it, and I read a whole lot faster than the dialogue is spoken.

And no, I do not run past creatures to do quests. In Two Worlds, that means very little experience, and I reached level 55 before I completed it. I'm guessing around 80-90 or so is the limit if you do absoluttely everything, but as I previously explained there is no reason to ever get that kind of level - I had maxed out all spellschools except necromancy + all passive combat skills and still had a 30 points left when I completed it (you don't only get skillpoints for levelling, you also get for certain quests, combos, defeating creatures etc).

As for dialogues in Oblivion. We're talking mindless, straightforward dialogue here. In a game like Gothic, I actually listen to every line, because they often have a meaning. In Oblivion it's completely pointless, all quests involve the exact same thing: Talk to questgiver, follow the arrow to the target, kill any hostiles in the area (if there are none, talk to all NPCs in the area) and then follow the arrow again. You could probably teach a monkey, small child or a very simple computer bot to get through Oblivion.

There is one element I skip in Oblivion that most people spend hours at - exploring. I spent the first few hours exploring, but soon realized that everything was scaled, and every dungeon only contained loot I could get anywhere else. After that I skipped exploring entirely and went straight for the quests. If you skip the exploration element in Oblivion, you'd be surprised at how short the game actually is.

Gothic 3 took me the longest of the three big freeroaming RPGs, due to the fairly high difficulty of quests and lots of interesting places to explore. Two Worlds comes in second, Oblivion third.

As a comparison, it still takes me about twice as long to complete Baldur's Gate 2 than Oblivion or Two Worlds, despite the fact that I skip most dialogues in BG2 nowadays since I know it all already. It's not a bigger game, but it's most definetly longer if you strip the freeroamers of exploration.

I completed Two Worlds very thoroughly, but as I explained, the main quest is very far from epic. Hopefully I won't spoil anyone when I say that the main quest is litteraly over before you know it. Pay attention to the sidequests and various factions. I have not maxed out all factions yet, but I intend to in my next playthrough.

Anyhow, this post became a whole lot longer than I expected. My point is simple, don't take this for Oblivion. There is a compass leading you to certain locations, but only if the questgiver knows the location already (i.e kill the guy at location X, but not if it's a find-out-for-me-quest).

One thing worth noting: Gothic 2 took me longer to complete the first time than any game since. The reason is quite simple - even though there are a lot of sidequests for people to do, they all lack depth. There are virtually no dialogue options other than yes/no, and very little info overall. As someone put it earlier in the thread - maybe it's time to focus a bit more on quality instead of quantity, because it's something Two Worlds suffer from just like G3 and Oblivion.

Edit: I had to add something. Why did you mention "replay" Moriendor? Oblivion is not a game you benefit anything from replaying in terms of speed through the game. In virtually every other game the speed would increase a lot, but I fail to see how it makes any difference in Oblivion, since every quest is so easy to complete you never actually have to stop and think about what to do next. You can pretty much just pick up all the quests in all major cities, and then start at the top of the list and follow the compass around untill you're out of quests. Voila, congratulations, you just completed Oblivion redicilously fast.
Last edited by Maylander; May 14th, 2007 at 19:16.
Maylander is offline

Maylander

SasqWatch

#25

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen
Posts: 5,420
Send a message via MSN to Maylander

Default 

May 14th, 2007, 19:37
OK, I was just wondering about your play style because my final save game in Oblivion reads ~150 hours after I did almost every single quest (except for some of the shrine quests where I did not meet the requirements in reputation or stats). Like you, I also used fast-travel almost all of the time and didn't spend *that* much time exploring. Even if I spent 50 hours exploring (which I didn't), we'd be at ~100 hours for doing every single quest in the game.

I just really don't see how anyone could arrive at the 50 hour mark on their *first* playthrough (on a replay if you truck through it like mad… barely, yes… maybe) of Oblivion when you actually need to "unlock" the fast-travel locations by going there on foot or horseback the first time (remember… you can't just fast-travel from the very beginning w/o knowing the location first) and when you contract vampirism and need to figure out how to cure it (this can be quite time consuming for a 1st time player of Oblivion) and if you do the "long version" of the main quest (by getting support from every single count/countess) instead of the short one and if you do the thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood quests that require timing and where you end up waiting several minutes in real-world time for the right moment etc etc etc… all of this stuff takes time, especially for someone on their first run through the game.

Anyway, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the length of Oblivion and as far as Two Worlds is concerned, well, I'll just make a mental note to myself to add approximately 30% to 50% of time to the one you quoted.

P.S.: I wasn't accusing you personally of playing a downloaded copy of the game. I was just mentioning it in general terms that there is a cracked version available already. There was a guy on the previous page who said "no comment" in response to a question why he was playing it already so I thought I'd help clear that up where he might have gotten his copy .
Moriendor is offline

Moriendor

Moriendor's Avatar
Spielkind

#26

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Schland
Posts: 1,905

Default 

May 14th, 2007, 20:25
Piracy:
Indeed, it is possible for anyone to get the English version right now as a pirated game, but if you do folks, I still urge you to buy it when it's available. For a game like Two Worlds, financial success is very important for the RPG genre as a whole - if we get more successful games like this we'll see more of them in the future. Don't cripple the genre you love just to save a few bucks.

Oblivion:
At any rate, I never claimed to have completed Oblivion in 50 hours on my first try. That was a rough estimate, I spent 30 hours on my first run through it, and that included the main quest, the arena, fighters guild, dark brotherhood and a few sidequests (not many, in general they were never interesting enough to do when they don't actually reward anything useful). I completed the daedric quests, mage guild and thieves guild in a different game. I still haven't completed the vampire quest for example. I became a vampire in one game, but never found a reason to remove it. Also, I was lucky and got the super brotherhood horse as one of the first things I did, so travelling was extremely fast after that - autotravel to a city and woosh to the location with the horse.

Back to Two Worlds:
All in all, I'd say Two Worlds is slightly longer than Oblivion. The world is about 10% bigger according to the developers, and that feels accurate. There is also a slightly higher amount of sidequests I'd say, but the main quest (believe it or not) is actually much shorter than the one in Oblivion. In fact, I advice most players to just ignore the main quest and enjoy all the other questlines, there are some very interesting ones in the north and south west that I enjoyed a lot.

One thing that Two Worlds is very good at is involving various sidequests into the main plot. When I say that the main quest is shorter than the one in Oblivion, it's because I don't count all the optional sidequests you can do as part of the main quest. It actually becomes quite solid if you do everything properly and not just butcher your way to the quest objective (I've tried both solutions through save/reload, and it's a lot more fun to do it the thorough way).

Edit: Added headers so the readers that want to know more about two worlds can skip all the Oblivion stuff.
Maylander is offline

Maylander

SasqWatch

#27

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen
Posts: 5,420
Send a message via MSN to Maylander

Default 

May 14th, 2007, 20:30
More comments/thoughts.


If I was to sum up Two Worlds I'd say its got the scope/breadth of Oblivion, the skill system, items, and combat of a Diablo-like, and the dialogue/exploration feel of Gothic.

The exploration and 3rd person gameplay is very much reminiscent of Gothic. The overland world (as far as I know from my ~14 hrs. of gameplay) is one big streaming map. The interiors of buildings & structures are also part of this map and do not incur loading breaks. The dungeons/caves on the other hand are considered "underground" areas and do load into separate maps.

Like Maylader said, exploring the outside areas & locations other than dungeons feels very "Gothic" like. The landscape is dotted with bandit camps, settlements, shrines, graveyards, etc.


I am definitely having more fun with this game than I was with Gothic 3 (still waiting for that uber patch). The story is okay but nothing extraordinary. The quests have so far been locate this/kill that/fetch this. The overland world is fun to explore but the dungeons so far are nothing special. I have found no puzzles/traps or otherwise interesting twists in the dungeons. They are just corridors with monsters, treasures, and sometimes objectives. I chalk this up to the breadth-over- depth phenomenon.

I echo an earlier sentiment: I wish developers would concentrate on a more modest-sized game world full of details and interconnections instead of huge, sprawling worlds that offer a few noteworthy experiences amongst many more bland, generic ones.

Regardless, the game remaines interesting because of the combat, the desire to uncover the map, and the general bug-free and smooth gameplay.
Last edited by elkston; May 14th, 2007 at 20:57.
elkston is offline

elkston

Sentinel

#28

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 347

Default 

May 14th, 2007, 20:37
I have to highlight a few things that elkston mentioned:

The dungeons: Indeed, you are correct. There is no such thing as a difficult trap/puzzle, nor any super bosses that makes them challenging. The only thing making them interesting is the ability to upgrade your current weapon/armor through items you loot inside caves. Also, quite a few caves have quests related to them somehow, but that's to be expected.

Diablo comparison: A good comparison, I had the same feeling when I played. There's something about the focus in the game, the feeling of fighting with a purpose to get that extra level, upgrade the loot and increase the power of the various spells. I would never have thought this kind of gameplay would work in a freeroaming RPG, but I personally feel it works out a lot better than the rather dry gameplay of Oblivion. It's simply.. more fun in the long run. It doesn't get tedious as fast as similar games.
Maylander is offline

Maylander

SasqWatch

#29

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen
Posts: 5,420
Send a message via MSN to Maylander

Default 

May 14th, 2007, 23:49
It took me 50 hours just to complete the Brotherhood and Thieves Guild in Oblivion (along with some exploring), so I think I can safely triple or quadruple your game time.

Thanks for the comments - sounds like a balancing patch would make this pretty good, even if it still falls short of "excellent". I think I'll still proceed with my preorder.

I still wish they hadn't wasted time on the silly MMORPG mode, but I guess that's easy for me to say because I'm not a MP fan.

-= RPGWatch =-
Dhruin is offline

Dhruin

Dhruin's Avatar
SasqWatch
Super Moderator
RPGWatch Team

#30

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 11,967

Default 

May 14th, 2007, 23:56
I agree, if they had cut whatever time they wasted on the snow region and the MP part, and spent it on fixing the balance + increasing the depth of various NPCs/story, this could've been the top truly open 3D RPG ever. It would beat Oblivion and Gothic 3 by quite a bit with the right focus, but I suppose you need something that will appeal to the masses and not just the minority of gamers that want depth above all.

I really hope it becomes a success though, so we'll get more games like it in the future. It may not be BG2, but it beats most games we get these days by a long shot.

Edit: One thing I just have to comment. People are a bit focused on hours spent. How many hours does a game deliver, how many does it take to complete, and so on. This depends completely on how you play a game - play it how you enjoy it. The important thing is: How much content is there in this game, compared to other games, regardless of hours?

Two Worlds delivers in terms of content. Whether you complete it in 5 hours or 200, it should be as much or more than G3 and Oblivion, so if something is wrong with the game it certainly has nothing to do with the amount of content.
Last edited by Maylander; May 15th, 2007 at 00:03.
Maylander is offline

Maylander

SasqWatch

#31

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen
Posts: 5,420
Send a message via MSN to Maylander

Default 

May 15th, 2007, 01:23
I just wonder why the month delay for the English release, if it's available thru the Royal version. Seems they're cutting their sales since 'people' will get the pirate copy rather than wait. In this day and age, world wide release on the same day should be automatic except perhaps for some smaller language localisations!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

Editor@RPGWatch
Corwin is offline

Corwin

Corwin's Avatar
On The Razorblade of Life
RPGWatch Team

#32

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,455
Send a message via Skype™ to Corwin

Default 

May 15th, 2007, 01:31
@ Corwin: I think the problem is as usual that there are once again different publishers for different territories.

BTW, there is an English review at this site here where Two Worlds scored 22% (you should take a closer look at the site before freaking out over the score… ).
Moriendor is offline

Moriendor

Moriendor's Avatar
Spielkind

#33

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Schland
Posts: 1,905

Default 

May 15th, 2007, 03:56
In regards to doing all the quest in Oblivion, If you're using fast travel and not doing much exploration like you said, then you're obviously not doing all the quest because you're missing many random quest by not exploring.

I think we just have different views on what everything means
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch

#34

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 17,800

Default 

May 15th, 2007, 04:02
Originally Posted by Moriendor View Post
@ Corwin: I think the problem is as usual that there are once again different publishers for different territories.

BTW, there is an English review at this site here where Two Worlds scored 22% (you should take a closer look at the site before freaking out over the score… ).
I didn't freak out over the score!! It's definitely 'original' and so is their scoring method!! Wonder if we should try something similar!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

Editor@RPGWatch
Corwin is offline

Corwin

Corwin's Avatar
On The Razorblade of Life
RPGWatch Team

#35

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,455
Send a message via Skype™ to Corwin

Default 

May 15th, 2007, 05:05
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
I didn't freak out over the score!! It's definitely 'original' and so is their scoring method!! Wonder if we should try something similar!!
How about this one:
We subtract 1/100 for every bug or missing feature we find. After the 100th bug we change direction and add 1/100, reverse again every 100 problems. Add some colourful graphics and we can claim our system is both mathmatically correct and of high aesthetic pleasure.
Gorath is offline

Gorath

Gorath's Avatar
Prime Evil
RPGWatch Team

#36

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,834

Default 

May 15th, 2007, 05:47
Ah, now I understand why the G3 review is taking so long!! Bet you lost count several times!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

Editor@RPGWatch
Corwin is offline

Corwin

Corwin's Avatar
On The Razorblade of Life
RPGWatch Team

#37

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,455
Send a message via Skype™ to Corwin

Default 

May 15th, 2007, 10:08
The main point which drew my interest to Two Worlds many moons ago was that, in almost every interview, the developers (and marketers) continually stressed the story aspect and the flexibility of the world to adapt to the player's choices. I generally try my best to approach the marketing propaganda with the utmost skepticism, but the fact that they put so much emphasis on this aspect of the game at least gave me a glimmer of hope. Here are a few quotes just from the official site so you can see what I mean:

"The most visible aspect of the Two Worlds gameplay is the freedom to change the world and shape the story within it."

"…players have a real chance to shape the game world with their actions - to an extent that has yet to seen in other productions."

"…strong, non-linear storyline…"

"Freedom of choice (like freedom to join or betray various organizations) and the importance of every decision are the core mechanisms to evoke the sense of meaningful play."

"…Depending on those choices, the state of the world alters dramatically…"

"The world literally comes to life as it immediately reacts to the player's actions and changes accordingly -offering new and exciting challenges…"

"The dynamics of the game world allows for dramatic changes such as: taking over cities by various factions, overthrowing kings, eradicating entire organizations and much more"

"The world lives its own life, but the player has the power to change it. The challenge lies in finding the right "strings" and skilfully "pulling" them."

"The huge story-creating capabilities in Two Worlds are ensured by unique modular structure. Players can create their own stories by choosing different options, initiating their own activities, changing sides, which will force the world to change. Having so much impact on the story is the key to creating a unique bond within the game world."
Based on the information provided by Maylander and others, it seems that "…the state of the world alters dramatically…" refers primarily to animals that remain dead and grass that stays scorched after being blasted by a fireball. Please tell me there's more to it than that.
Last edited by Geist; May 15th, 2007 at 10:18.
Geist is offline

Geist

Watchdog

#38

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 176

Default 

May 15th, 2007, 10:20
Originally Posted by Moriendor View Post
@ Corwin: I think the problem is as usual that there are once again different publishers for different territories.

BTW, there is an English review at this site here where Two Worlds scored 22% (you should take a closer look at the site before freaking out over the score… ).
According to that review the game really stinks. Also the bugs that zyklop mentioned som time ago are still in the game(u can find them from the revw) :

Absolutely "Yes" - i tested for the last 4 weeks Two Worlds beta2 and beta3 and even beta2 was much more stable than Gothic3 in release version - sad but true.
There are no more A bugs, but still some other bugs like clipping errors or problems with dying quest-npc, but this problem is under work.
From the athmosphaere i must say, that the landscape is very beautifull, the story and the quest system is shaped in three layers - main storyline, quests supporting the main plot dealing with power fractions in the world and classical side quests.

If the developers are able to fix the last few bugs and stock the dungeons with some more interesting rewards, than this rpg will be the most promising title in 2007. -zyklop
In a funny way I have single usermod in morrowind that has better horseriding than two worlds. Hopefully they get their issues patched up.
zakhal is offline

zakhal

zakhal's Avatar
HomelyRebel

#39

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Europa Universalis
Posts: 2,988

Default 

May 15th, 2007, 10:28
@Geist

There's not a whole lot more to be honest. There are a few choices here and there that will have an effect, especially the whole necromancer path will alter quite a bit, and you can decide the outcome of a rebellion. Other than that, I haven't really found any evidence that the world adapts to anything you do. For example, you can't suddenly join the orcs and let them win the war (you can walk among them with a disguise, but you can't talk to them).

SPOILER:
There is a choice at the very end of the game, where you can decide to join or kill the enemy, but this choice is pointless; sure, there's a bit of a difference in the ending, but there is absolutely nothing leading up to this choice, it just comes right out of the blue. It's a simple matter of choosing one option, see that ending, reload, choose the other, watch the other ending.

One of the few disappointments in the game is how little you can affect, and how few choices you really have that will change anything. Maybe I've missed something.
Maylander is offline

Maylander

SasqWatch

#40

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen
Posts: 5,420
Send a message via MSN to Maylander
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » Completed Two Worlds, my thoughts on it..
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:39.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch