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Default Grimoire - Interview @ RPGCodex

October 30th, 2012, 17:26
Yes, but please be aware he is a troll, who receives legitimate pleasure from shocking others. I'm not saying the guy isn't crazy, just that us talking about Cleve in this way is probably what he enjoys the most… more than game development, hence why Grimoire is still vaporwire.
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October 30th, 2012, 18:46
Nobody is perfect in this imperfect world. I'm not sticking up for him, just commenting on what I find humorous about him. He has proved he can make fun of himself though that took him 17 years.
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October 30th, 2012, 21:16
If I was voting for him or inviting him over for dinner I might care about his politics or philosophy. As a game developer I'm only interested in the quality of his work and how likely it is that he will deliver the goods.

With most crowd funded projects you are gambling that the game gets built. With Grimoire I already know the game exists and I'm willing to gamble on Cleve actually releasing it this time.
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October 31st, 2012, 00:56
Honestly this might work out well for him in the long run. If he'd released it two years ago nobody but us (RPG enthusiasts) would have ever known. The current old school resurgence might make this very well timed.
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October 31st, 2012, 10:23
I could be wrong, but isn't his "online persona" his defense, because he's largely seen as a failure?

It would be a natural human response when faced with so many people who're aware of who you are - and what you've claimed you would accomplish, and then completely failed to deliver.

Derek Smart was exactly the same when his turd of a game failed so bad.

It's an unfortunate consequence of hubris - when you spend all your time making promises that you've yet to get anywhere near upholding.

The smart thing to do would probably be to just stay quiet and work on the damn game - or simply fade into obscurity so you wouldn't have to be faced with the response.

But I suppose some egos just can't take it.
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October 31st, 2012, 11:13
With the slight difference, that Smart actually published his game, and many more afterwards. So obnoxious as he may be, he has a track record and generally gets stuff done.
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October 31st, 2012, 11:20
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
With the slight difference, that Smart actually published his game, and many more afterwards. So obnoxious as he may be, he has a track record and generally gets stuff done.
True, but if you bought the game like I did - you may have experienced a slightly different thing from what he promised

Essentially, Smart was very, very vocal about his accomplishments far before the release - and the game was an absolute travesty when it finally came out.

I'm one of those people who fully expect Cleve to release this game some day - but I'm pretty sure it won't be at the level he's made it sound like through the years. In fact, I think he's trapped himself by way of his very big mouth. He knows what people will require to make his comments "forgivable" after all these years - and he's likely terrified of facing that response.

My point is that there are several ways to react to that kind of fan response - and I find it's very human to overcompensate and become irrationally aggressive as a way to defend oneself. Again, a question of ego.
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October 31st, 2012, 14:05
Why do you think Cleve built a bunker to live in? He's terrified of people in real life. He only allows himself to be interviewed in person by harmless old folk like Corwin If he actually releases this, he'll seal himself up in his bunker for a few years until the backlash goes down. Where did I put my industrial super glue????
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October 31st, 2012, 15:16
Originally Posted by Falchor View Post
Yes, but please be aware he is a troll, who receives legitimate pleasure from shocking others. I'm not saying the guy isn't crazy, just that us talking about Cleve in this way is probably what he enjoys the most… more than game development, hence why Grimoire is still vaporwire.
I understand he is a troll. But troll or not, I can't imagine what leads someone to produce these beliefs, let alone spread them on the internet. Hell, it could be my kid reading that kind of junk and maybe getting influenced by that.
I won't support this guy in any way. To me, buying or funding any production of his is supporting him.
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October 31st, 2012, 15:30
Originally Posted by arthureloi View Post
I understand he is a troll. But troll or not, I can't imagine what leads someone to produce these beliefs, let alone spread them on the internet.
I've read someplace he's got Asperger's Syndrome. I don't know if that's true or not, but I'm pretty sure he's got something.

You're free to to spend you money however you like of course, but personally I think if you're going to "support" only people who have your opinions, you're going to have a rather narrow group of people to deal with. I understand the "vote with your wallet" thing if we are talking about someone who uses his money and influence on spreading hate speech, but Cleve's about as influential as a crazy hobo raving on the streets. You can't take anything he says seriously.
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October 31st, 2012, 16:44
Originally Posted by Raggie View Post
I've read someplace he's got Asperger's Syndrome. I don't know if that's true or not, but I'm pretty sure he's got something.

You're free to to spend you money however you like of course, but personally I think if you're going to "support" only people who have your opinions, you're going to have a rather narrow group of people to deal with. I understand the "vote with your wallet" thing if we are talking about someone who uses his money and influence on spreading hate speech, but Cleve's about as influential as a crazy hobo raving on the streets. You can't take anything he says seriously.
My acceptance is quite broad, maybe a reflex of the country I live in. I respect all colors, religions, body types, sexual orientation etc and always promote the richness in debating divergent opinions.
I won't tolerate that intolerant hate speech in any way though. That is not the expression of an opinion but the exclusion of everybody else's.
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October 31st, 2012, 17:15
It seems there are alternative crazy people (ahem…) who spend a ton of time in their lives making dungeon crawlers. So there are plenty of others out there to support if you don't want to support him. (ahem… QuestLord…) I figured since he thread-jacked with Shaker I can do it a little in this thread

But seriously, I think a little bit of kindness and definitely humility can go a long way in at least gaining respect out of your target audience. That is sort of 101 from "What mom taught you at age 5"

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October 31st, 2012, 17:49
That's the problem though. If he's got Asperger's, he's just not able to do things we take for granted.
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October 31st, 2012, 18:03
He's got Major Asshole Syndrome from what I can tell.
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October 31st, 2012, 18:46
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

Based on the information in the link, I don't believe that Asperger's is going to make you as downright mean-spirited and nasty as Cleve. There is a big difference between a lack of empathy/social graces and behaving like an utter ass. The latter is a deliberate choice on his part. If he behaved like this in the real world, then he would be fired from every job he ever worked. Especially as a contract programmer (which he claims to be, and I am, as well)…it is very easy to get rid of a contractor.
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October 31st, 2012, 19:26
The people with Aspergers and similar that I have met tended to be oblivious to other's feelings and very socially awkward. Yes, they could stomp on someone's feelings but it was accidental. Cleve seems more like a bully and intentionally tries to irk people. Yeah, undoubtedly it's some psychological syndrome.
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October 31st, 2012, 19:51
Originally Posted by Raggie View Post
You can't take anything he says seriously.
Then we should not expect Grimoire to ever see the light of day.

Which I don't, btw.
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October 31st, 2012, 19:54
He's probably compensating for, uh, you know…
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October 31st, 2012, 20:17
From what I know, There's a wide pretty wide spectrum on the severity of Asperger's. I once used to work with disabled teenagers, lots with developmental disorders. Many of those were otherwise normal, fully functional and intelligent but with a handful of "issues" you had to deal with. I remember one boy in particular who was extremely confrontational and angry towards people he didn't know. He was really nice once you got to know him, but his behaviour at first meeting was something that could give you whiplash. It was easier to deal with once you realized he was just a frustrated kid who didn't know how to communicate with people or deal with his emotions. The aspies/autists I've know have been lonely people who have to struggle with their condition every day.

Anyway, Cleve is either a really long troll or there's something else behind it, but normal he ain't. Still, he's still just a dude who has no manners and talks nonsense online. On my books, that's not something unforgivable like molesting children. And I don't see what difference it makes to buy or not to buy his game at any rate.
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October 31st, 2012, 20:34
How about talking about Grimoire the game instead of Cleve's character?

RPGWatch is becoming a congress of whiners nowadays - I'm really missing Skavenhorde, Prime Junta, Magerette, txa1265…

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
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