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Default Kickstarter - Sui Generis

November 2nd, 2012, 05:37
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
This sounds really cool, but why are all Kickstarter projects PC-only? Are there any RPG projects announced for consoles? Or is it just for PCs? This game sounds really cool and would love to see it on consoles.
I wouldn't think all of them will remain PC only. Many are developed on Unity, and that's a cross-platform engine.
This one however is hand-programmed, so I imagine ports would be much harder to do.
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November 2nd, 2012, 06:12
Originally Posted by guenthar View Post
Wow that game looks great and the combat is like a more dynamic version of the combat from the Gothic games. The tools look like they may be better then Bethesda has and may be easier to use. It has better animations and physics then any other rpg ever made. The only thing that needs to be changed is to have a normal save/load system and have their system as an option. If they use the system they suggest then there is no way I would be able to play the game since I would have to constantly start over from the beginning. (if it was turn-based I may be able to get through but not a real-time system)

PS. It is amazing that they could make a game that looks better then any other rpg.
Yeah, the graphics are stunning. It reminds me in a way of Temple of Elemental Evil, but in 3D.

If this project is the real deal, they would probably be better of shopping their engine around rather than trying to come up with an original and compelling story.

I would love to see a larger battle with different magic and a little gore.
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November 2nd, 2012, 09:24
Add me to the list with a strong aversion for 'no save'. I hate not being able to save where/when I want - that includes forced save points etc (most of which are 'lazy' programming imho - implementing a robust and complete save system can be hard and time consuming, I know) I remember an epic boss battle in BG2 (I think) where you can't save in a fight, and I had to play until the wee hours of the morning, although I was dead tired and not thinking straight. Fine- those who want ironman mode or similar can have it, but don't inflict that on the rest of us as a forced (only) choice. I have *no* problem with been forced to live with a story choice I've made (supporting a faction, chosing to attack X etc), but I don't think that has to require a cripple save mechanism or that this shoud be reflected at the level of combat.
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November 2nd, 2012, 09:58
I remember an epic boss battle in BG2 (I think) where you can't save in a fight, and I had to play until the wee hours of the morning
That doesnt mean anything except it isnt balanced correctly or you played at too high difficulty/or fought the boss too early on. Lazy programmers doesnt care about balancing the game and instead make sure you're able to save anywhere. In case they didn't balance it correctly the player can still pass that boss/area by just abusing save/loading numerous times until luck strikes - a form of cheating.

SiiiiLENCE the DISCOOOORD…
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November 2nd, 2012, 10:35
Originally Posted by vurt View Post
That doesnt mean anything except it isnt balanced correctly or you played at too high difficulty/or fought the boss too early on. Lazy programmers doesnt care about balancing the game and instead make sure you're able to save anywhere. In case they didn't balance it correctly the player can still pass that boss/area by just abusing save/loading numerous times until luck strikes - a form of cheating.
Yep, exactly.
Without saving and reloading you actually have to find a good way to solve the situation. I am an console-hater, but I guess fixed save spots are one of the very few console-ish features which I like.
In Jagged Alliance 1 you also were not able to save in combat. In JA2 you were. You could basically "cheat" your way through each combat, by just save/load after each shot. Luckily they implemented also some kind of ironman mode lader where you could only save outside of combat. So now you are actually forced to do good decisions in combat. You can do this combat over and over to find the correct decisions, but it's a much bigger challenge and you will learn from it.

About the console games: Probably lots of the "old school" players are sick of current console influence in games. And as lots of the BIG projects like Wasteland and Project Eternity appeal to these players, they are designed like they were in the 90s and not like today where everything must be playable with a controller, crippling all the controls on the way. What you do see however are releases for IOS including Ipads and Linux, which is the result of unity. And a touch pad is much closer to classical mouse control than gamepads are.

On the other hand, Star Citizen goes with controllers but says that the hardware for consoles suck and this is their reason they don't want to be crippled by doing a multi platform game while implementing conrollers on the PC.

As I said before - I am a console hater and I appreciate that these projects don't compromise themselves, because then they would just be another game like Dragon Age 2 or XCover.

Edit: Oh and paying 40000$ for a patch will not make it more attractive for indie devs: http://www.hookshotinc.com/interview-schafers-millions/

As far as I remember there was also one indie dev (can't remember the name, but it was mentioned in the quarter to three podcast) who didn't fix an easy-to-fix-bug causing broken savegames for his game, because he just didn't want to spend dozens of thousands dollars for the patch to be implemented.
Edit2: Here is the source: http://www.destructoid.com/fez-patch…h-231618.phtml
Polytron has announced that they won't be fixing the first Fez patch, and instead are re-releasing it as is despite the save file issue associated with it. The reason? Phil Fish states on the Polytron blog that it would cost "tens of thousands of dollars to re-certify the game." According the Giant Bomb, the exact cost for a patch is $40,000 based on a speech given by Phil at the Gamelab conference in Barcelona recently.
Last edited by Kordanor; November 2nd, 2012 at 10:51.
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November 2nd, 2012, 10:36
From the developer:
The game is designed from the ground up to not allow saving, being able to save would just ruin and unbalance many things. This game will be a very different experience from most CPRGs in many respects, I think overall you will not miss saving. We are aiming for intense fun, not gradual progress. Note that death is not permanent.
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November 2nd, 2012, 13:10
This is an old school gaming project.

Not old school in the way players like to tell when they cling to certain features/mechanics to tell this or that game is old school.

But old school in the way this developpment studio wants to breathe life again in old school ideas of gaming, making the most of technology available right now to implement those ideas. Instead of clinging to outdated mechanics. It is all about the concepts and the aspirations. Not the means used to achieve a result.

As signaled in the beginning of his intro video, video gaming went off track to turn into something else than what early signs showed.

Dont know if this KS will succeed but if it does, this will bring a few answers on what is what in terms of gaming.
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November 2nd, 2012, 15:41
The engine looks very nice, but this doesn't have a prayer of hitting the target unless the guy can market it much, much better. He needs to talk to kotaku, get a facebook page, hit up pc gamer, and all of this should have been done and in the pipeline before trying the kickstarter. He might as well give this shot a mercy killing and start making contacts.
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November 2nd, 2012, 15:45
Unfortunately it looks that way. How quickly we have become saturated!
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November 2nd, 2012, 16:03
I know! This looks really good, and I would support it, but at less than $5,000 and the money that is there being very questionable, there is no hope. Kickstarters need marketing more than anything else. This guy has a marketable product. Unfortunately, it will take someone on the team spending all their time setting up interviews, hitting up sites like this one, getting a bigshot in and letting them have a hands-on look at the game, and steps very similar to get the buzz going. It doesn't seem like anyone on the team has any marketing sense at all. For instance, this site would be a very meaningful site to be "spying". The fact that someone who wants to build a crpg is unaware of this site or the codex or gamebanshee, etc, is a very telling sign.
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November 2nd, 2012, 17:10
Hi, we are spying

We've been following this thread and many others, but what do you expect us to do? We are working on a major update on Kickstarter that should answer most of the concerns people seem to have. We are also working hard to to get the most exposure possible but we don't command great resources and we have ordinary jobs to attend to.

To be honest I don't understand most of the criticism, it seems people just discredit a lot of what we say.

Sorry my presentation sucked, I broke my collarbone the day before we filmed the pitch. I was not in good shape at all.

By the way, if the project doesn't reach it's goal you keep your money so it's not exactly a big risk. If you want to support us and can, do it!

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November 2nd, 2012, 17:20
@Madoc
Nice to see you here!
Would have been great if you included some more of the actual game in your video. Not necessarily in game scenes, but examples how the game will flow, what situations can appear, what you can decide in the game, maybe with some drawings of decision trees if these exist or similar.
I am pretty sure that the main video is the main representation of your project. I doubt many people will actually read all the text. But the video is focused on physics and dynamics related to that - not on the game or "meta game". Maybe some comparisons would have helpeld like "like Diablo but with physics" or "like skyrim but dynamic quests" so that people can make a picture about what you are up to.

Edit: About that money thing: True. But your vision is extremely "off imagination" and without examples and therefore hard to judge if you fulfill any of them.
Let's just take the opposite example of FTL: There you have a hand full of mechanics, a skeletton visible to everone where the kickstarter project financed the flesh to the bones. With Sui Generis it's hard to say anything about even the concepts of these bones.
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November 2nd, 2012, 17:29
I must say, that video looked really impressive. I hope this game gets more publicity, because i would like to see it backed. i will keep an eye on it as it goes along.
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November 2nd, 2012, 17:39
Originally Posted by booboo View Post
Add me to the list with a strong aversion for 'no save'. I hate not being able to save where/when I want -. . .I had to play until the wee hours of the morning, . . ..
exactly, as a late night gamer, I approve of this message.
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November 2nd, 2012, 17:42
Originally Posted by Dajjer View Post
exactly, as a late night gamer, I approve of this message.
Would you think different about it if it's said that everything is always instantly saved automatically?

The only bad aspect about is which I can think of is a corrupt save game or a game where you can get stuck in a save.
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November 2nd, 2012, 17:48
I guess our naivety strikes again, we thought that people would understand our vision by reading the text once we had their attention. The aim of the video was to prove we had the means to actually develop such an ambitious project on such a small budget.

The whole idea is that this game is radically different from other games. We don't have decision trees, it's nothing like Diablo or Skyrim or any other game. We want a believable world that feels real, where you forget it's just a game. The concept, world and story literally have years of work and research behind them, even very small details. It's also all supposed to be a mystery, you're supposed to discover the world and try to piece it's history together. Not just because it's better that way, because it was designed that way.

If I really had to compare it to other games I would say something like the Ultima series but who would understand that? It's been too long.

Anyway, there will be some more information in our upcoming update.
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November 2nd, 2012, 17:50
Originally Posted by Kordanor View Post
Would you think different about it if it's said that everything is always instantly saved automatically?

The only bad aspect about is which I can think of is a corrupt save game or a game where you can get stuck in a save.
not really, sometimes after a long day of work, after all the family stuff, and then I get on the computer my gaming is sorta crazy and incoherent. I need a save and reload.
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November 2nd, 2012, 19:23
Thanks for showing up, Madoc. I wish you guys the best of luck.
But as already mentioned, the project needs to get updated ASAP and more buzz must be made. I really like this project and want it to be a reality. It`s different from everything I`ve seen.
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November 2nd, 2012, 19:52
Madoc, you're on the right track, I just think that launching a kickstarter should take place after some initial word of mouth marketing. I've been studying the kickstarter model and you absolutely must come out the door with information overload to have success, unless you're a large personality or prescence in the field. Understand that your product does speak for itself, but not very loudly. Also, your presentation doesn't show a game, it shows a tech demo. You'll need to clearly iterate what type of game you're making. It can't be, "Oh we're super original, like nothing you've ever seen." Tell us exactly what you're going to make. What will the spell system be like? How many and what kind of races? How about inventory systems? High magic world or low? How many in the party? How are they added? Anyway, I hope to see these types of questions answered very quickly, so I can make an informed pledge. I'll be happy to back this if you're really creating a world like Ultima, so far it looks like Skyrim in 3rd person, which is good enough for me.

Okay this last is me being silly, but the first thing I thought when I read the project name was "So Generic"
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November 2nd, 2012, 21:03
Just watched the video and read a little more about this project. It sounds incredible. If I were a PC gamer I would definitely donate to this project.
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