|
Your continuous donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » Dart and Thrasher - the great ME Debate

Default Dart and Thrasher - the great ME Debate

November 21st, 2012, 20:22
It says something about the games since we are still discussing them…

ME1 is probably among my top 10 game experiences.
It was not perfect by any means, but it had atmosphere.

and space.

3 completionist runs and some trial runs

ME2 were, in my opinion a far smother experience. To smooth unfortunately.
If the inventory system is below par, do it better, don't remove it altogether!

The three games are very different beasts.
My take:

The first one is about exploring, getting to know the setting and the fabulous lore ( I read all planet descriptions, but Im a space junkie) and learning about the threat/enemy/main villain

The second part, build the crew. Narrow focus. NPC interaction. Learn more about Mordor/SPECTRE/Great Evil tm. Its an interlude, basically.

Third part. Endgame. They are usually rather grim, but I was kind of surprised about how grim Bioware did it, not their usual modus operandi with gay elves and alcoholic dwarves. I prefer beginnings, and I suspect most people do since you have a larger degree of freedom and a story to unfold and explore. That said, ME3 was a good game, even though the consolitis drove me nuts in periods.

On T and dA and constant wrangling.
I know its all in good form and hopefully with sincere respect for combatants, personally, I have some trouble with fear of conflicts and tend to play the diplomat. Not something years of martial arts in my youth and early adult life could erase.
Guess I have to harden myself, but is interesting to read different opinions and more important why you have them.

On the trilogy as a whole. Is there any other developer who could have done it?
With story, characters, NPC?

I think Bioware is worth kudos for the guts to try it.
It was not perfect, but honestly. The game that would satisfy all of the crowd here will never get made.

C

edit, you write so fast that much of what I were saying is obsolete :-) just feeling peckish since Ive been constantly sick for a month
Crilloan is offline

Crilloan

Sentinel

#41

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: WGS84 Latitud:59.85 Longitud:17.65
Posts: 359

Default 

November 21st, 2012, 20:28
Nice post, Cril - and it seems we largely agree.

About your question - who could have done it?

Well, if we're talking about actual and realistic possibilities - I have to acknowledge that very few AAA developers would take on a sci-fi opera trilogy on that scale.

But, I think a developer like CDPR (Witcher and now Cyberpunk) might pull it off - and I'd be very interested in the writing.

Obviously, Bethesda of TES/FO fame have the resources to do it - but they haven't done a "mostly-linear" game in a long time. I don't know if they'd be interested - but they could probably do it.

Other than that, I don't know. Perhaps the Irrational Bioshock guys? The Montreal guys who did Deus Ex : HR?
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#42

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,457

Default 

November 21st, 2012, 20:33
Yep. Everytime I came back to the Normandy with stuff I absolutely hated re-equipping and selling. It absolutely ruined that RPG aspect, which I actually love, the re-equiping and rebalancing with new loot. It almost permanently poisoned my mind towards the loot RPG minigame in general. I was SO happy when it was over. I hate ME1 for it.
Last edited by Thrasher; November 21st, 2012 at 20:46.
Thrasher is offline

Thrasher

Thrasher's Avatar
Wheeee!
RPGWatch Donor

#43

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 9,991

Default 

November 21st, 2012, 20:35
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
Yep. Everytime I came back to the Normandy with stuff I absolutely hated re-equipping and selling. It absolutely ruined that RPG aspect, which I actually love, the re-equiping and rebalancing with new loot. It almost permamantly poisoned my mind towards the loot RPG minigame in general. I was SO happy when it was over. I hate ME1 for it.
A bit harsh, but I understand.

Actually, I had a very hard time forgiving the ENORMOUS steps back from KotOR - and I still do.

That said, Mass Effect is among the very finest when it comes to atmosphere and sci-fi.

It's grown on me over the years.
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#44

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,457

Default 

November 21st, 2012, 21:04
This is timely and apropos.

Artist brings Mass Effect cast into the Dragon Age universe
Thrasher is offline

Thrasher

Thrasher's Avatar
Wheeee!
RPGWatch Donor

#45

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 9,991

Default 

November 21st, 2012, 21:11
Hehe, not bad
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#46

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,457

Default 

November 21st, 2012, 21:20
Found at QT3
Green Man Gaming has Mass Effect 3 Digital Deluxe Edition for $12.80 if you use the GMG20-1FYLZ-EDG8R coupon.
N7 Hoodie – For Commander Shepard’s casual days on board the Normandy.
Hah! Silliness has reached a new level.
Thrasher is offline

Thrasher

Thrasher's Avatar
Wheeee!
RPGWatch Donor

#47

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 9,991

Default 

November 21st, 2012, 22:18
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I should probably come clean and admit that I didn't get far in ME3. I got to… where was it. That planet where you had to recruit some general for the cause. I think it's 2-3 primary missions in.

I just couldn't stand it anymore at that point. Maybe I should get back to it? It just seemed so incredibly rushed and half-assed.
If youre talking about the turian moon, thats the final part of what I consider the games prologue and this whole prologue barely felt like Mass Effect at all to me.
Needless to say, the game gets better right afterwards .
It was obviously rushed and it is a mixed bag (and more obviously so than the predecessors), but Id say that the whole prologue is where its at its most consistent at being bad.
Personally Ive found a lot to like about the game throughout and also a lot to dislike as well, but somehow the "dislikes" ended up not bothering me much, besides the beginning. All things considered, it actually sits roughly on the same qualitative spot as ME1 in my book, but the reasoning for it is … complicated .

Anyway, Id say that the genophage story arc is the most consistently good piece of the game, so you might want to check it out (you can start it right after you recruit the general).

Originally Posted by Crilloan View Post
I think Bioware is worth kudos for the guts to try it.
It was not perfect, but honestly. The game that would satisfy all of the crowd here will never get made.]
Agreed with the sentiment.
DeepO is offline

DeepO

DeepO's Avatar
deep outside

#48

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Prague
Posts: 2,327

Default 

November 21st, 2012, 22:22
Originally Posted by DeepO View Post
If youre talking about the turian moon, thats the final part of what I consider the games prologue and this whole prologue barely felt like Mass Effect at all to me.
Needless to say, the game gets better right afterwards .
It was obviously rushed and it is a mixed bag (and more obviously so than the predecessors), but Id say that the whole prologue is where its at its most consistent at being bad.
Personally Ive found a lot to like about the game throughout and also a lot to dislike as well, but somehow the "dislikes" ended up not bothering me much, besides the beginning. All things considered, it actually sits roughly on the same qualitative spot as ME1 in my book, but the reasoning for it is complicated .
Thank you for that insight into ME3. Yeah, I think it was the Turian moon - as I believe it was a Turian general

Sounds interesting.

I was so annoyed with ME3 - because I had forced myself to replay ME2 (exhaustively) to get to it - and I was even getting tired of ME (my 3rd complete playthrough) - and the whole thing was just a mess.

Now that I'm less emotionally invested, I might enjoy it more. I'm still a huge sucker for sci-fi - and I'm likely to enjoy parts of it, regardless.
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#49

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,457

Default 

November 21st, 2012, 22:27
Originally Posted by CountChocula View Post
I hated the Paragon/Renegade system in ME2. You must nearly always choose either the "rude" or "pushover" responses, regardless of whether they fit with your character concept, in order to unlock important content later in the game and squad members like Morinth.
You also have choice to ignore the Paragon/Renegade system For me, that was not an issue, if anything, I really loved that system. Made me feel like I'm Shepard (assuming direct control!)

BG2 fan girl
BG2: Eowyn & Anomen
IWD: Orhlanna & Korin
ME: Shepard & Garrus
purpleblob is offline

purpleblob

purpleblob's Avatar
Princess

#50

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,065

Default 

November 21st, 2012, 22:40
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
You also have choice to ignore the Paragon/Renegade system For me, that was not an issue, if anything, I really loved that system. Made me feel like I'm Shepard (assuming direct control!)
At first I took that approach, choosing dialogue options that represented how I imagined my character would respond, and then I could not get Morinth and many other dialogue options were not available later in the game because I didn't choose always "pushover" or always "rude."

I went back and played just mindlessly clicking "renegade" and the experience lost any semblance of a role playing game. It penalizes you for attempting to roleplay instead of mindlessly clicking the same one every time. This might have been a minor issue for some, but for me it made ME2 feel more like a third person shooter with long cut scene movies. ME3's solution to this problem was simple, but it resulted in a much more enjoyable game overall.
CountChocula is offline

CountChocula

CountChocula's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#51

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chocovania
Posts: 1,478

Default 

November 21st, 2012, 22:52
Yeah, that bugs me + the quicktime interrupts were kind of "funny"? A lot of collar grabbing. I felt like the game pushed you to figure out how to get the most points, rather than picking a role (or just going with your feelings). It felt strange to be always hovering over a mouse button during conversations just in case there was a possible interrupt. Also, this meant could not just spacebar through tedious dialogue if I wanted to catch all possible interrupts. Very odd roleplaying.
Thrasher is offline

Thrasher

Thrasher's Avatar
Wheeee!
RPGWatch Donor

#52

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 9,991

Default 

November 21st, 2012, 22:53
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I was so annoyed with ME3 - because I had forced myself to replay ME2 (exhaustively) to get to it - and I was even getting tired of ME (my 3rd complete playthrough) - and the whole thing was just a mess.
Speaking if which, ME3 is a mess, but for me it eventually ended up more on the "beautiful mess" side of things .
DeepO is offline

DeepO

DeepO's Avatar
deep outside

#53

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Prague
Posts: 2,327
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » Dart and Thrasher - the great ME Debate
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:59.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch