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Default Baldur's Gate - Enhanced Edition: Trailer @ Kotaku

November 23rd, 2012, 12:18
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
Over priced by $10? Maybe but you did just over pay by $140 for a brand new tablet with last generation tech in it and you were absolutely giddy about it.
I'm not talking about what people are willing to pay to get what they want, but what's reasonable.

Please point out where I've said Apple products are reasonably priced.

It always amazes me when people quibble over 5 to 10 dollars on the price of a game. It's a coffee or a burger, most people will burn through 5 to 10 dollars during a day without even thinking about it but when it comes to a game it's an atrocious money grab.
Yeah, so why not sell it for 10$ more? I mean, it's still just a few movies.

Also, have I said anything about what I think of movies and their cost? You're confused. You seem think I'm saying that everything else is fair - but this specific game is not.

Why even consider what's fair for what you're offering? People will pay, right?

In this case, they've taken something made by someone else - and modified it slightly - and added a few hours worth of content.

Considering what's available for BG through mods - without a cost - I personally can't see how 20$ is a fair price.

But that's me - and I can accept that opinions differ.
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November 23rd, 2012, 13:09
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I'm not talking about what people are willing to pay to get what they want, but what's reasonable.

Please point out where I've said Apple products are reasonably priced.
You didn't but your more than happy to overpay for the apple product or at the very least you don't complain about the apple product being over priced every time it comes up like you do the game.

Why the double standard?



Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Yeah, so why not sell it for 10$ more? I mean, it's still just a few movies.

Also, have I said anything about what I think of movies and their cost? You're confused. You seem think I'm saying that everything else is fair - but this specific game is not.
I never said anything about movies. If you think everything is over priced then why do you have such a problem with this game? Yet you open up your wallet to pay for other things that are over priced.

Again, why the double standard or is it ok for things to be over priced if its something that you really want?

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Why even consider what's fair for what you're offering? People will pay, right?
Well…. You did just buy a greatly overpriced tablet, so I guess that is right. Seems your contributing to the problem just as much as the rest of us. Which would be fine it you weren't always acting like your above that and you're some kind of crusader for what is honest, fair and just.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
In this case, they've taken something made by someone else - and modified it slightly - and added a few hours worth of content.

Considering what's available for BG through mods - without a cost - I personally can't see how 20$ is a fair price.
So, the iPad mini doesn't offer a fair price either but you happily ponied up the cash.

So, again why the double standard? How can you constantly bash things you feel are over priced or unfairly priced and then turn around and purchase something that is unfairly priced and keep your integrity?

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
But that's me - and I can accept that opinions differ.
Nice parting shot but I'm not biting.
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November 23rd, 2012, 13:22
Originally Posted by CountChocula View Post
I suppose what's "enhanced" is that it's running at 1920x1080 and you can see clearly what is going on on the screen and read everything easily. Also, I'm hoping you don't need to install dozens of mods and patcher programs to be able to run BG1 on the BG2 engine.
You don't have to do anything to have BG1 run in the BG2 engine with BG:EE. It already been ported to the BG2 engine (which was itself improved with numerous fixes). You also get to play with all of the BG2 spells, classes and kits right from the start of BG1.
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November 23rd, 2012, 13:23
Hmm, it doesn't really do much for me I'm afraid. I still can't help but get a nostalgia kick by simply seeing the game in action though.

Just out of curiousity, do any Watchers have an original Collectors Edition of Baldur's Gate? (with map and soundtrack, dvd version)
I've been outbid on a few on ebay over the years; just can't seem to get my gloves of dexterity+2 on a copy.

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Last edited by Pessimeister; November 23rd, 2012 at 15:51.
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November 23rd, 2012, 13:24
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
You didn't but your more than happy to overpay for the apple product or at the very least you don't complain about the apple product being over priced every time it comes up like you do the game.
It seems you can't separate buying something even without thinking it's reasonable - and not thinking it's reasonable.

Like, say, you go to a nice fancy restaurant to do something nice for you girlfriend - and you pay more than you think is reasonable - because you want to please her.

Get it?

I paid for the iPad Mini DESPITE thinking it's overpriced.

I might pay for BG:EE - DESPITE thinking it's overpriced.

Why the double standard?
There is no double standard, that's your imagination.

I never said anything about movies. If you think everything is over priced then why do you have such a problem with this game? Yet you open up your wallet to pay for other things that are over priced.
I'n not saying everything is overpriced - I'm saying some things have an unreasonable price.

In this thread we're talking about BG:EE - that's why I'm talking about its price. In the iPad Mini thread - I was talking about Apple products being overpriced.

Again, why the double standard or is it ok for things to be over priced if its something that you really want?
I'm not saying anything is ok or not. That's up to the invidual. I'm saying the price is unreasonably high from my point of view.

Well…. You did just buy a greatly overpriced tablet, so I guess that is right. Seems your contributing to the problem just as much as the rest of us. Which would be fine it you weren't always acting like your above that and you're some kind of crusader for what is honest, fair and just.
Have I claimed I'm not contributing to the problem?

It's ok if you want to imagine that I'm acting like I'm above others, because I have an opinion about what's fair - but that's on you.

If you can't separate what you know from what you have no knowledge of, that's not really my concern.

I don't consider myself above or below others, because I have no way of measuring that. I don't really care. We're all equal, in my mind.

So, the iPad mini doesn't offer a fair price either but you happily ponied up the cash.
What do you mean happily? I paid the price because it was worth it to me, even if it was too high. Correction, I THOUGHT it would be worth it - and it turns out that I'm right.

Then again, money means nothing to me - as long as I can afford it.

So, again why the double standard? How can you constantly bash things you feel are over priced or unfairly priced and then turn around and purchase something that is unfairly priced and keep your integrity?
Probably because in my world, you can buy things that are unreasonably priced knowingly, without having a problem with integrity. Integrity, to me, is about honesty.

Nice parting shot but I'm not biting.
Woe is me.

I know you have this fantasy scenario about me - and I won't get in the way. But on the off-chance that you're not interested in bitching from a position of ignorance - let me make it clear:

I'm not telling anyone what they should do - or what they should buy. I'm not telling the developers of BG:EE that their price is too high. It has nothing to do with me.

I'm looking at a product and I'm seeing a price I consider too high. I haven't used the word "atrocious" - that's you. I'd say it's no big deal - and it's not heavily overpriced - more like significantly.

Cash-grabs are the norm of this industry. That's pretty much what the mainstream industry is all about. That doesn't mean that games are worthless - and that I'm never going to buy another game in my lifetime. I don't feel obligated to never enjoy myself again - because I don't want to pay for something that has too high a price.

All I want to do is be conscious of my own opinions and speak them when I feel they're appropriate. There's no morality or claims of morality involved.

If you think otherwise, that is in your head based on your own limited perception of what other people are like.
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November 23rd, 2012, 14:26
People who are saying $10 are just being silly, as that's what the original game costs on GOG.com right now. Selling it for the exact same price would be ridiculous. Perhaps $15 would be better than $20, but whether or not it's worth the extra few bucks depends on the additional content in my opinion, and we don't know how good any of it is just yet.
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November 23rd, 2012, 15:01
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
People who are saying $10 are just being silly, as that's what the original game costs on GOG.com right now. Selling it for the exact same price would be ridiculous. Perhaps $15 would be better than $20, but whether or not it's worth the extra few bucks depends on the additional content in my opinion, and we don't know how good any of it is just yet.
Why would it be ridiculous?

If people had any interest in BG whatsoever, do you think they would buy the GoG edition or the BG:EE edition if both cost 10$? 10$ is just within the impulse-buy range, where you extend your audience in a very big way.

By doubling the price for what I consider minimal comforts and upgrades, they're making people consider the standard version.

Personally, I think they'd get a lot more profit by setting it lower than 20. But that's just me.

However, 12-15$ sounds about right to me in terms of value. But, obviously, it depends on who you are and how much you value the convenience and extra features.
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November 23rd, 2012, 15:53
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Why would it be ridiculous?

If people had any interest in BG whatsoever, do you think they would buy the GoG edition or the BG:EE edition if both cost 10$? 10$ is just within the impulse-buy range, where you extend your audience in a very big way.
Because they've actually done a lot of work on it. The announcement came in March, which means they've worked for a minimum of 8 months. I don't know how many developers they have, but the overall costs are bound to be significant, especially compared to the work done by GOG on their edition (which is basically just wrapping it in a DOS box).

The announced content alone is 10+ hours of extra stuff. It makes no sense at all for that amount of content to be free.

Why on earth would they work for 8 months only to sell it at the exact same price as they could've if they had simply sold it without doing any of the work? This isn't a charity you know, nor are the employees doing voluntary work for the fun of it.
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November 23rd, 2012, 15:54
If you want to have the equivalent of BG:EE (without the new content) you have to buy both BG1 and BG2 (so $20).

BG:EE is the equivalent of using BG TuTu or Big World Project to play BG1 campaign. Both of which requires BG2 to be installed.
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November 23rd, 2012, 16:18
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Because they've actually done a lot of work on it. The announcement came in March, which means they've worked for a minimum of 8 months. I don't know how many developers they have, but the overall costs are bound to be significant, especially compared to the work done by GOG on their edition (which is basically just wrapping it in a DOS box).
It doesn't matter if they've worked 20 years on it. It's a simple matter of value and demand.

You seem to think that the amount of work that went into something should be reflected in the price. I guess that means a movie should cost a thousand dollars?

Nah, I think you should set your price according to its value (which your workload should have reflected in the first place) - though that's obviously subjective.

You think 10$ for the extras is a fair price - I think it's overpriced.

The announced content alone is 10+ hours of extra stuff. It makes no sense at all for that amount of content to be free.
Free? Who's suggesting free. The content isn't free just because a slightly inferior version is for sale at 10$. You can go visit a retail store and get BG for 2$ if you're lucky - or you might end up paying 30$ - that's relative. GoG isn't the gold standard.

It would make business sense too, if they ended up earning more money because a lot more people bought it. That's what I'm suggesting - just like I suggested the same thing for Spiderweb games.

Why on earth would they work for 8 months only to sell it at the exact same price as they could've if they had simply sold it without doing any of the work? This isn't a charity you know, nor are the employees doing voluntary work for the fun of it.
I'm sorry, but I obviously fail at explaining this to you. Let me try again, I'm not looking for charity or anything for free that isn't already free.

I'm suggesting they could set it at a reasonable price in terms of its actual value - that might ALSO make them a lot more money.

If you set something at 20$ - it doesn't follow that you earn more money than if you set it at 10$. That would depend on the size of your audience, and what they're willing to spend.

As I said, I'd say 12-15$ represents fair value - because most of what they're offering is free through mods. That means those "10 hours" worth of extra content.

For something like BG, where you can easily spend 50 hours - I don't think doubling the price is reasonable. It would be like charging 60$ for the Dawnbreaker DLC for Skyrim. If you think that's ok - fine.

We just disagree, that's all.
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November 23rd, 2012, 16:24
Originally Posted by azarhal View Post
If you want to have the equivalent of BG:EE (without the new content) you have to buy both BG1 and BG2 (so $20).
Unless you already own BG2, sure.

BG:EE is the equivalent of using BG TuTu or Big World Project to play BG1 campaign. Both of which requires BG2 to be installed.
Sure, for people who don't already own BG2 - they might consider the higher resolution worth the asking price.
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November 23rd, 2012, 16:28
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
You seem to think that the amount of work that went into something should be reflected in the price. I guess that means a movie should cost a thousand dollars?
Are you familiar with the concept of "break-even point"?
(A simple yes or no will suffice)
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November 23rd, 2012, 16:44
Originally Posted by Asdraguuhl View Post
Are you familiar with the concept of "break-even point"?
(A simple yes or no will suffice)
Who isn't?
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November 23rd, 2012, 16:59
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Who isn't?
My thoughts exactly, which is why I was a bit surprised by your comment.

But perceived value is indeed a funny thing. Many people here in Madrid complain about the price of movie tickets yet they have no problem in paying a similar amount for a single drink on a saturday night.
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November 23rd, 2012, 17:10
Originally Posted by Asdraguuhl View Post
My thoughts exactly, which is why I was a bit surprised by your comment.

But perceived value is indeed a funny thing. Many people here in Madrid complain about the price of movie tickets yet they have no problem in paying a similar amount for a single drink on a saturday night.
I don't complain in general. I just speak my mind - and if something is too high, too low - or this way or that way - I think it's ok to say it. In fact, I think it's healthy to say it - especially if it provokes debate.

As for break-even - I'm pretty sure that's about the amount of money they have to make to break even.

I can't possibly know how they've arrived at the 20$ figure - but I'm not seeing how it reflects actual value - and that's all I'm saying.

If they have some kind of magical orb that tells them that X amount of people will buy it for 20$ - and Y amount of people would buy it at 15$ - then they have more information than I'm giving them credit for.

I truly and honestly believe some developers are overlooking several factors.

For the PC market especially, because of the rampant piracy problem. If you price something too high - then you're not going to get any pirate to cough up cash. But if you price it low - you might get a significant amount of them to shrug off the price, and go for the convenience instead.

There are many factors beyond the actual value.

I can't claim to be able to establish the objective value of BG:EE - which is why I would never say it's objectively wrong to sell it for 20$. I just think the price is too high - and even though I don't think they'll make more profit that way, I smell a cash-grab. Call it 30 years of experience with the industry combined with my position on human psychology.

But that's just my opinion.
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November 23rd, 2012, 17:18
Personally, I'll easily pay 20 bucks for a new version of a great game. I could care less really about how it looks, for me it's about a simple install and not needing to resort to mods/retro emulaters/voodoo magic to play a damn game! I'm all about the simple.


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November 23rd, 2012, 17:26
Originally Posted by Carnifex View Post
Personally, I'll easily pay 20 bucks for a new version of a great game.
-Carn
I am of the same opinion. And I am pretty sure I will have more fun and get more out of this game than most of the 50$ games I have bought this year.
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November 23rd, 2012, 17:33
Originally Posted by Carnifex View Post
Personally, I'll easily pay 20 bucks for a new version of a great game. I could care less really about how it looks, for me it's about a simple install and not needing to resort to mods/retro emulaters/voodoo magic to play a damn game! I'm all about the simple.


-Carn
Yes, $20 isn't bad at all. Hope they will sell a lot, wouldnt mind more games.

This is what you get afaik:

New areas: (Estimated @ 18 hours of additional gameplay)
- Black Pitts (15 Levels)
- Secluded hideaway
- The Cloud Peaks

New NPC's: (New voices, Dialog & Quest for each character)
- Neera
- Rasaad yn Bashir
- Dorn II-Khan

New Kits:
- Blackguard
+ All kits imported from BG2+TOB

Improved UI:
- Ability to zoom in & out
- Touchscreen support handheld devices

Improved Visuals:
- Full resolution support
- Full openGl support
- All movies completely reanimated
- 1PP mod by Erephine
- New gfx shader
- New portraits

Enhanced multiplayer (post ship?)
- Matchmaking service
- Cross platform support

Core Game Improvements
- Overhaul of the source code
- 400 issues address & fixed including fixes from the community e.g. dudleyville
- Improved support for mods

New Audio
- Newly composed music
- HQ Music mod by Erephine
- OGG Vorbis support
- New voices

Ongoing Support
- Improvements will continue after release

SiiiiLENCE the DISCOOOORD…
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November 23rd, 2012, 17:58
Originally Posted by vurt View Post
- All movies completely reanimated
Not completely true - from Oster´s Twitter (Nov 22/21) :
We removed a few videos as they did not meet the quality bar and we decided to put more time into the game itself instead of redoing them
We cut the Beregost movie, the Gnoll fortress and a few more

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November 23rd, 2012, 18:07
There's also a difference between UP to 18 hours and estimated 18 hours. Let's see when it gets released before we start making such claims.

If it's really 18 hours of quality content - then the price is more reasonable, but I have to say I'm extremely sceptical about that number.

Based on videos and screenshots of their UI work - it looks like amateur hour to me. But I have no idea about the writing involved - could be good.
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