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RPGWatch Forums » Games » Gothic 3 » Gothic 1/2 » New Gothic texture patch by ThielHater

Default New Gothic texture patch by ThielHater

September 14th, 2007, 03:19
Well you certainly could have a point about the voice work, and especially since they had to cut some content to get the game out, iirc.

Well the world is full of stories (literature and movies) of smart women whom pretended to be men or at least genderless to avoid those kinds of situations and as far as fighting abilities that wouldn't make much difference.

Since this is Gothic, a good but older movie comes to mind DragonSlayer.

It certainaly could have brought tremendous amout depth and nuance to the story.

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September 14th, 2007, 13:19
Originally Posted by Acleacius View Post
Not sure "fault" is the right word but maybe short sided and defianlty a mistake.
At one point I wrote a lenghthy text at the original Gothic 2 forums ranting on the roles of the social system in Gothic 1. It was kind of a rant/suggestion to involve a more diverse social structure in Gothic II and beyond.

What the people did, was tearing my post down, because "it's a male game", as I put it: They just wanted in this game a male character as the player character, mainly, because it has always been so (from Gothic 1 on).

Very few actually said they would play the same game when the player character would be a woman. They just were silent, apart from tearing my post down.

To me, the male player character fits to the story, but in my rant/suggestion I wrote my perception of the vast majority of game developers being males - which in my opinion influences very much the layout of social structures presented in a game - especially in Gothic 1.



The valley was in principle nothing more than a prison. I would've expected female prisoners, female mages etc. . Nothing of that. It's a fully developed chauvinistic men's world, up to the point of how the females were "kept" in this prison (and consequently presented by the game itself to the player).

One must simply come to the conclusion that the male inhabitants - the prisoners - had not only slayn the prison guards, but they also forced females - ALL females ! into some sort of "slave working".

Personally, I would've expected at least ONE female to be cunning enough to keep all of the males at bay, maybe at a special place which cannot reached without being especially gifted in climbing or maybe just because she was better (and smarter) as a warrior.

But no, ALL of the males enslaved the females, and they erected a very special social structure, which I call "a male world".

And I'm very sure that this layout would've been different - at least in some points - if a part of the production team had been famale. I'm quite convinced they would've insisted on a partly different role of the female prisoners.

In all consequence, the human social structure presented in Gothic 1 is nothing but chauvinistic.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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September 14th, 2007, 15:12
The valley was in principle nothing more than a prison. I would've expected female prisoners, female mages etc.

uh……why? That's an oxymoron if you think about it.

Prison <——> females?







ALL of the males enslaved the females, and they erected





I bet they did.
Last edited by JDR13; September 14th, 2007 at 15:22.
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September 14th, 2007, 17:57
somepeople aren't aware apparently that gothic isn't based on a "modern age". nearly all female "heroes" of the past, even though who had great power did meet unkind demises. women are now finally starting to get what they deserve, but in the past women were never seen as equals so it doesn't make the game chauvanistic it just makes it realistic. its why many games pull the "amazon" card as those were one of the few societes where women had power as a whole. cleopatra, and even more recently joan of arc didn't exactly have happy endings and ride of into the sunset. the females were never not slaves in gothic, if you watched the story it was obvious that after the convicts gained control of the caste, et el one of there demands was for females along with all the other "property" they requested. it would be assasine to ever have a coed prison. gothic 2 had women in it but still it was a patriachral society so beening a female character wouldn't have worked and should they suddenely have made you female after taking down the barrier? the only women who did have power were those secluded from society. i thought the inclusion of the wise "herb witch" and "leader of the thieves guild" were to well done and believable characters. but had either of them just started walking around the town/camps, they would have had a hard time of it for sure.
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September 14th, 2007, 18:08
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
I would've expected female prisoners, female mages etc.
Sorry, Alrik, but I'm having trouble with that too. Prisons are segregated for obvious reasons. Why would you expect otherwise? Maybe a female mage or two, but the concept for the original game was definitely a man's world, IMO.

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September 15th, 2007, 00:55
The setting is a male prison in a medieval society. I don΄t see any room for a female protagonist in there.
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September 15th, 2007, 12:20
Yes, in THIS setting it might be fitting, but I'd expect in future games rather a more *general* approach.

I mean - this is as if only males could commit crimes and females not.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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September 15th, 2007, 12:54
Alrik Fassbauer
Sounds like a good post, wish I had seen it.

—————————
Everything has to balance out somewhere, even though it's stated as a prison for men, most of the men whom aren't fighting the Orcs are in prison then Khornsis and Vanguard wouldn't have any men, but of course we don't (I don't) hold PB to such I high standard that their stories have to be perfect.
They have twice now had problems with including women first in G1 and secondly in G3 due to graphic issues.

The whole "it's a male world" is a complete misnomer, though it's obviously related to having shitty assed male role models through history, women have always been equal as humans.
It may have been proven before and I am forgetting but during wars often times women are out of necessity required to do the same jobs men did.
In the US for example women did so well that they basically created the middle class.

It's the result of each society that perpetrates the subjugated roles, run by men, men so frail they encourage the mistreatment of women and see women as a threat.
Most guilty of this are religions and governments have tried to suppress women through out history but that doesn’t make it acceptable or that all men treated women this way.

Secondly often the stories you hear of strong women meeting bad ends is that is was a male version of the story.

I am not saying they have to include a female propagandist but only it would have been a better game for it.
Sure it's ok to make a game about male power and egos, it's one of the best games I have ever played but it certainly has room for improvement, which they did a masterful job of in G2.

Here's the thing that really pushes me on this female issue in G1, there were 200 men (guessing) and 3 women belonging to 1 guy, for years.
Gomez would have had to ask for more women just to stem revolt if he would have wanted to keep the men working mining the ore.

Technically a female protagonist could have been done with little or no impact.

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September 16th, 2007, 19:22
Originally Posted by Acleacius View Post
Technically a female protagonist could have been done with little or no impact.
Or be a REAL hero, like the old legends sing, one, who was unexpected, different, and changed everything.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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September 17th, 2007, 03:37
Gothic 1 was from the begining with a male prison..only women were criminals who king sent to gomez as part of the other "goods". Althoug pb should have made it possible to talk to those women at the very least and maybe free them from the old camp..

Gothic 2 had many female characters..Remember Maria the wife of onar who actually says what his man must do. Heh behind a successfull man is usually a clever woman .Also Cassia the thief who was leading the whole thieves guild… Sagitta the herb witch who was feared and respected through out the land. Those were fitting roles for females, but a female paladin or mage? It wouldn't be belivable. I could accept a femal hunter though or a bard (who could do some adanos magic maybe?!).
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September 18th, 2007, 14:57
Yes, but still games with a female-only hero stay rare, whereas games with a male-only hero are actually quite common.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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September 22nd, 2007, 22:26
Hello, Acleacius, since no-one else did it, I made these two patches for Gothic 2:
http://rapidshare.com/files/57529356/G2OWsky1.zip.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/57529873/G2OWsky2.zip.html

They override the same sky textures in G2 mine valley, use the one which you prefer. To install, just copy the zip file into your G2 install directory and then extract it with relative paths. (This will put the included *.vdf file G2OWsky.vdf into Data/ subdirectory.) To uninstall, just delete G2OWsky.vdf . You don't need to begin a new game to apply or remove the texture patches.

For the first one, I took the sky texture for the "new world", renamed it to the same name as the sky texture for the "Old World" (the mine valley) and packed it in a VDF file. But the result is not very satisfactory. For the second patch I took the texture from G1 bluesky patch from authors of G1 mod Diccuric, again I had to rename it and pack it in a VDF file. The results are visible on the attached screenshots. Good playing!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg originalsky.jpg (51.1 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg G2OWsky1.jpg (47.7 KB, 44 views)
File Type: jpg G2OWsky2.jpg (49.7 KB, 40 views)
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September 23rd, 2007, 18:27
Originally Posted by Ondo
Hello, Acleacius, since no-one else did it, I made these two patches for Gothic 2:
Very kind and very much appreciated, thanks for the efforts.

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September 23rd, 2007, 20:13
When I click onto these pictures, I get nothing but a message saying that I'm not logged in. Even when I'm logged in.

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September 24th, 2007, 05:35
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
When I click onto these pictures, I get nothing but a message saying that I'm not logged in. Even when I'm logged in.
Worked for me, I am betting you have an adblocker or some setting in your browser preventing viewing jpgs (images).

PB did something really strange with the skies in OW of G2, at least with my limited knowledge.
In all the other zones/levels you could changed color schemes within your Gothic.ini.
[SKY_OUTDOOR]

zDayColor0=82 109 198
zDayColor1=255 255 0
zDayColor2=18 16 60
zDayColor3=134 104 125
zDayColor0_OW=90 80 80
zDayColor1_OW=90 80 80
zDayColor2_OW=90 80 80
zDayColor3_OW=90 80 80
; … these values tune the different sky colors during different daytimes
Not in the OW, it's as if they made that really bad Grey texture, as an unadjustable roof of the level box, yet it seemed to clear away at night time, as the sky becomes beautifully clear and full of stars from about 8pm to 5am.

I haven't had a chance to try it yet, helping Wesp, atm testing out this 4.2 patch so maybe he can get a 4.3 out quicker since there was a small glitch with the Santa Monica AI freezing..

I am very really looking forward to trying it, anything is better than that Grey Gloom! :cheer:

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September 25th, 2007, 22:04
Ondo, got this working with no trouble and it does look amazing, finally OW looks as good as the NW and AW, you ROCK!

Almost finished helping Wesp with 4.2, (there is so much new dialog to check, especially from Jack), gonna play G2, next. so I can see G2, OW in a new light.

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September 30th, 2007, 22:42
Thanks . I suppose you tried the first version, with changed values
of zDayColor0_OW etc.? I looked a bit at the sky textures inside the
file [Gothic2]/Data/Textures.vdf , and it seems that out of the two
textures for the Old World sky, the lower one ("layer1") is the same as
the texture for the rain clouds, and is totally opaque. So when you change
the values in the Gothic.ini file into, say,
zDayColor0_OW=82 109 198
etc., the color of the upper texture ("layer0") changes, but you cannot see
the change because of the opaque clouds. But the "layer1" texture for the
"new world" (Khorinis outside the Mine Valley) is totally transparent! The
first version of my patch simply replaces the two "old world" textures
with the corresponding two new world textures - and then you can manually
change the sky color in the INI file. If I have time, I will try to make the EXE patch with NSIS.

You can look at the textures for yourself with the program GoMan v0.93 :
http://www.worldofgothic.de/dl/index…&release_id=97
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December 10th, 2007, 04:48
Apologizes about not checking thread sooner, got overwhelmed with all the RPG games coming out this season.

Ondo, damn thats cool to know, I could never figure out how the OW sky was working so strangely, but that makes so much sense, now.
I really appreciate you taking in interest in this and I defiantly owe you several beers if not complete evening at a pub, as this has removed the biggest trouble spot on G2 for me, thanks.

I may try the viewer but I only have some experience at editing text, so I probably won't have a clue how to use it. :doh:

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December 26th, 2007, 20:02
Thanks for appreciation, Acleacius.

On topic: for anyone interested, ThielHater published the final version of his texture pack. Old download link:
http://www.worldofgothic.de/dl/index…release_id=288
doesn't work anymore, the new download is here:
http://www.worldofgothic.de/dl/index…ds&file_id=311

The final release thread is here:
http://forum.worldofplayers.de/forum…d.php?t=326018
He says he's now occupied with the work on "Gothic Reloaded Mod", so he decided to make a final release of the texture patch. He corrected a few small bugs, improved the installation wizard and inserted the BlueSky textures. He regrets that the planned new plants are not included, but he promises them for the Gothic Reloaded Mod.

In other news from WorldOfGothic, there is a new G2NotR modification: Velaya - the hero is a woman. (Just mentioning it, since I remember a discussion about opposite-sex player characters not long ago.) They promise 30 to 40 hours of gameplay in German languague.
http://www.worldofgothic.de/index.ph…t&news_id=1132
http://velaya.worldofgothic.com/
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December 26th, 2007, 20:51
Nice. I installed Gothic 1 on December, 23rd.

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