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Default Gothic 3 - Rumor: Gothic 3 Uber-Patch cancelled

May 20th, 2007, 20:33
It might be fine to some people, but that doesn't change the fact that it could be better.
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May 20th, 2007, 20:37
The PC Games only summarized posts from the two big German fora. I had posted most of this stuff in our forum a few days ago. Not much new info.

Ralf from PB clarified his posts today at WoG. He basically said that he noticed a lot of people had participated in the dev Q&A thread obviously without any hands-on experience of the game. Those should better play G3.
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May 20th, 2007, 20:38
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
It might be fine to some people, but that doesn't change the fact that it could be better.
That's a rather vague statement that could apply to just about any game I guess I'll have to agree with some of the other guys here that G3 is actually a really good game at its current state! Yes, some things could be even better - but if you decide not to play it because they didn't release this extra patch… well, that's your loss I guess!
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May 20th, 2007, 21:19
Here's the thread:

http://forum.worldofplayers.de/forum…213338&page=34

Basically, Ralf is saying that info on the 1GB patch will (should?) some from Jowood, not PB. He is also saying that PB's employeed also post in the 'ask the devs' thread in their spare time i.e. when they are not at work. And he mentions that he sees people claiming to have played Gothic 3, when it is obvious to him that they have not played Gothic 3. And that he, therefore, suggested that these people start playing Gothic 3 —- to see what the game is all about —- instead of postponing playing the game as this would make them qualified asking the devs. questions about the game or posting about the game in the forums. (and I find the 1.12 build very stable…)

He also recognizes that there is a info vacuum in regards to patch info….but says that info on the patch comes from Jowood , the publisher.

Personally, I think there will be a uberpatch for G3 —- maybe late autum…2007…
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May 20th, 2007, 21:56
Unfortunately we all continue to let them get away with these rushed out, incomplete games. I am as guilty as the next guy. I have done my share of pre-orders. I get caught up in hype, the hope, and the addiction, longing for a new game to satisfy my thirst for adventure. And so we all keep paying for companies to treat us like this.

Bart and Corwin should just admit that when it gets down to it, I will have the final say.
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May 20th, 2007, 22:02
Originally Posted by KasperFauerby View Post
That's a rather vague statement that could apply to just about any game I guess I'll have to agree with some of the other guys here that G3 is actually a really good game at its current state! Yes, some things could be even better - but if you decide not to play it because they didn't release this extra patch… well, that's your loss I guess!

It's not vague at all, and no it doesn't apply to just about any game. Most games don't ship with that many problems, including skills that don't even work at all. I'm not saying it's not still a very fun game to play, just that it should have been better.
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May 20th, 2007, 22:16
What skills don't work?
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May 20th, 2007, 22:28
Originally Posted by Korplem View Post
What skills don't work?
Well lets see:

Improve robes, firemage, make poison, magic staves (or is this one just totally
bugged ?) …

missing skills is just my second most important issue with the game right now…
The awful ballance is definetely the first. That ludicrous "fix" they did in 1.12
with the invincible NPCs vs monsters was the last drop imho…

The game is not bad certainly… But it definetely needs fixing. And balance should
be playtesting and adjusting numbers. It totally escapes me why they haven't
addressed this or the missing skills !
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May 20th, 2007, 22:48
I'm very dissapointed if we won't get a patch. Very sad if all the previous talk about fixing g3 was just a load of horse shit…

Originally Posted by JonNik View Post
Well lets see:

Improve robes, firemage, make poison, magic staves (or is this one just totally
bugged ?) …!
and add.."improve armour" to that list.
Also I have heard that army of darkness spell was removed in patch, because it was bugged? Instead of fixing it, they removed it altogether..lame

Infamous 12:th paladin is still missing. (ok not a big deal, but since its part of the mainquest, i'd say this is important)

Lastly like you said, the game is suffering from balance issues, like weapon balance and whole forge pure ore weapon skill is pointless because loot is so random, you can hardly find any blueprints for those pure ore weapons (which are crap mostly)..
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May 20th, 2007, 23:04
Originally Posted by Gorath View Post
Ralf from PB clarified his posts today at WoG. He basically said that he noticed a lot of people had participated in the dev Q&A thread obviously without any hands-on experience of the game. Those should better play G3.
Right. And I am the Easter bunny! .
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May 20th, 2007, 23:42
Staves are not bugged, you can block magic attacks with a staff just like melee attacks with a shield.

Fire magician, the ? skill, improved armor, improved robes and poison arrows are not in. The rest should be fine.

Like I've said previously. All games have tons of cut content, PB just made the misstake of not removing the traces.
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May 21st, 2007, 00:10
I don't have the requisite German skills but there seems to be disagreement on the exact meaning of some of the posts, leaving me to think this might be an overreaction. Really, all this newsbit says is there are rumours on two forums and PC Gamer reported those rumours. Now we join the throng.

I also think G3 is pretty good — though there is plenty that should be improved. NWN2 gave me far more frustration.

All that said, it's a shame game companies in general are so bad at (or give so little value to) proper communication with their fanbases.

-= RPGWatch =-
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May 21st, 2007, 00:21
@ Maylander: Don't get me wrong. Not trying to flame or anything. I think it's great that you can somehow appreciate Gothic III in the state it's in. I wish I could as well. But I think you also need to accept that there are a lot of people with a different level of tolerance in regards to bugs.
A lot of people just can't stand flying trees (or other graphical oddities) or missing sounds or that you have to clear the path before escorting an NPC (at least in Nordmar) because it's still too dangerous even after patch 1.12 or that you can't finish certain quests (without cheating via the console) because NPCs fall through the world or that monsters/animals will come through the floor or through walls because the collision system is FUBAR etc etc etc

Yes, these are mostly issues that you can ignore and you certainly can work around some of these issues (by using the console for example) but why should people really?

I can only speak for myself, of course, but that kind of stuff is royally pissing me off in games. When I have to adjust my gameplay to circumvent bugs then that's just not right. You said it yourself (paraphrasing): "Stay away from 1-hand and shield and all will be fine" - Ummm… how about no? How about the devs fixing the game to make 1-hand and shield a viable option? That's how I see it and apparently a lot of other people, too, who are eagerly waiting for another patch. As I said, it's just a difference in the ability to tolerate certain issues or not. Most people are not really willing to bend over backwards to avoid or work around game bugs/issues that simply shouldn't have been there in the first place.
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May 21st, 2007, 00:24
I think I've figured it all out. They are going to follow the famous (or should that be notorious) DL marketing model and release a Delux, Collectors Edition of G3 which will play like the original should have!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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May 21st, 2007, 00:32
NPCs dying? The current state of the NPCs that travel with you is "overpowered" to say the least. They don't do any damage at all, but they can tank a dozen orcs without much effort. Heal them with "Heal Other" once in a while and there is no way they can die unless you let them fight alone. Their low damage will eventually get them killed.

Bring along one of the paladins, they can heal themselves as well, and you'll have a tank that simply can't die. In fact, I have yet to see one of the paladins die after 1.12 unless I killed them myself, and I use them as tanks a lot.

Also, 1h + shield is viable, but it's the most difficult path of all at the moment. It's nowhere near as hard as a magician in G2 NotR is though, so I don't see what the whining is about. I mean, come on, the difficulty in G3 in general doesn't even come close to G2 NotR in any way, during any stage of the game, so people getting through that certainly should not complain. I simply recommend people to stay away from one-handers in general in G3, just like I do magicians in G2, because it's harder than other options.

And another thing, people do not fall through the world anymore, nor do they die easily. I fail to see how anyone will have to use the console to do anything at the moment, there simply isn't any way to crash the main quest. However, in G2 NotR there was a very simple way to do it - just talk to Lares and go to the farm before you get him to give you the ornament, and you'll have to spawn the ornament using the console because he will refuse to do so later. Bang, game locked. Easy to cause, easy to avoid, I don't see the problem.

Almost every issue people whine about these days have already been solved. Just make sure it's properly patched. Personally I had to install each patch on top of each other (instead of just 1.12) to make the game as solid as it is, but right now I experience very few bugs. I have seen a few flying trees though, but only in places people normally don't go, hehe.
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May 21st, 2007, 01:22
Well, if this is true and they don't release the patch, AFAIC they've effectively put themselves out of business, and if that really doesn't happen I certainly won't be purchasing anything else from PB/Jowood again.
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May 21st, 2007, 01:29
.. Why? Black Isle made games such as Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance on consoles, but should that stop anyone from buying BG3, PS:T2, IWD3 or Fallout 3 if they made one of those games? I can understand the general dislike of EA after years of making bad movie related games, but other than that I think developers deserve a little more credit than to have their fans stop buying any games they make just because they made a blooper. As far as I know, only Blizzard still has a "clean record" among the majority of their fans (note: majority, not all, of course).

As far as I'm concerned, Black Isle were the greatest, most talented developers we've seen in the RPG genre, yet even they made misstakes.
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May 21st, 2007, 01:54
I quite like the game (and I'm a great fan of the predecessors), but the combat system is just plain broken. It makes no sense, it really needs to be fixed. Especially the fact that while fighting a group of opponents you're only threatened if 1) there's someone shooting at you or 2) you're so good you perform a critical hit. In "normal" fights, e.g. fighting 20 opponents of similar level (broadly speaking) to yours, you are certain to win because you'll only be fighting one of them at the time, while the rest will patiently wait in line. And then, slowly and repeatedly pressing LMB works for all human opponents. It really shouldn't work this way and I hope it gets patched.
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May 21st, 2007, 02:36
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
I don't have the requisite German skills but there seems to be disagreement on the exact meaning of some of the posts, leaving me to think this might be an overreaction.
Then let's check out the facts and I'll provide translations . I'll be trying to do this in order of occurrence.

1) The JoWood logo and link to the JoWood forums all of a sudden disappear from the official German Gothic III website at www.gothic3.com (the English site still has the link to the JoWood forums). This happens after Ralf M. from PB (the art director) began to sound increasingly critical towards JoWood in his almost daily replies to posts from fans. Especially worthy of note: A post in which Ralf lamented the fact that JoWood publicly disclosed that they were very happy about the financial success of Gothic III but that PB was not sharing the joy quite yet (hmmm… unpaid/held back royalties?).

2) Ralf from PB posts on May 16 in response to a fan question about the (in the fan's opinion) mediocrity of the story (missing dialogue, sequences et al) in Gothic III…

Thanks for your critique.
As you might have read before, we are partially sharing these views as well.
To add sequences is not possible. In regards to a patch, I would not recommend to have any expectations. As you will have noticed, the wheels are in motion behind the scenes and we can not comment on any of this at this time. Therefore, I can only hope for your understanding as far as our communication policy is concerned.

Obviously, people were not too amused about the recommendation bit. Ralf failed to provide any sort of clarification (like whether he meant to have no expectations in regards to the sequences (which has been known for a long time that they -PB-would not change the story) or whether he meant to have no expectations in general) about this statement until today, Sunday - May 20 even though he did post in between (see below).

3) After this post, WoG moderators who seem to have inside knowledge, began what could be referred to as a "community crackdown" by closing a thread about the patch and another thread about the rumor that PB and JoWood were going to divorce (the rumor came up after the removal of the JoWood logo and forums link from the official German Gothic III website).
I have personally had two (civil… not like the first post of mine in this thread ) posts of mine deleted where I asked for clarification. They (WoG) simply deleted everything that was related to the patch or any JoWood/PB separation rumors left, right, and center even though it was (is) the most pressing community concern. What kind of fansite is that where you are not allowed to discuss the no. 1 community concern? What kind of fansite is that that is so far up PB members' asses that they can scrub their teeth from the back side? WTF?

4) Then on May 18, instead of providing any sort of clarification about the burning issue of what his comments regarding the patch might have meant, Ralf goes

[Some introductory small talk about a documentation/diary that he wants to record about "A Day at Piranha Bytes"]

There are still no news or an announcement that could be made in regards to the patch or the current project. All I can do is to recommend to anyone who hasn't played Gothic III to this day to finally have a go at it.

And to everyone who is sending me PMs via this forum to get more info on these issues that we can not officially comment on:
There's really nothing else I can tell you than what we are posting here. Everything will be cleared up in due time but as long as JoWood doesn't post an announcement there is nothing that we can or would be allowed to say about all this.

… and later in the same post in response to a question about the workflow (remember that Ralf is PB's art director)…


Ideally, the game design and story departments would start long before the art and programming department but since no independent studio can afford to keep 2/3 of their staff twiddling their thumbs (very unhealthy) or to let them work endlessly on patches for the previous project (which are usually not supported by funding from the publisher), you need to find ways to have someone create first objects and (parts of) editors for the ongoing project that are NOT trashed after three months.
This is making my job very hard during this phase since all I can do is guess what the story might be like and what main characters we will need for sure…

… again later in that post after some more replying to various questions…

As you will have noticed, the wheels (of business) are in motion behind the scenes and thus there's just no answers to be given on such issues as the patch or the editor for mod kits. Would a lot of things have been "optimizable"? Yeah, certainly. But sometimes the agreements between a studio and a publisher are… well, let's just say… interesting.

I.e. we don't always have full control of what's happening to a game after its release. Several factors such as funding/financing of things such as mod kits and prolonged phases of debugging do play a role just as well as the plan to get started on the new project ASAP because as I said… if perfection isn't to be found in the past then maybe one will have better luck with the new project next time.

… and yet again later in that post…

I'm not sure how to interpret all the "please clarify" posts…
I have forwarded the questions about the graphics engine, hoping that one of our programmers will be able to provide a more detailed answer than I possibly could…

So… no clarification but instead a few other potential "bombshells". As someone who is following the forums at WoG closely, Ralf must know that a lot of people are still holding off and waiting for the fabled "uber patch" before really getting into Gothic III. He recommends to finally have a go at the game now. Why? Does he know that the patch is not coming?
And what's that stuff at the end about "better luck with the next project". Are they seriously abandoning Gothic III in favor of the add-on or Gothic IV or something entirely different? And what's up with all the hints about being out of money or at least funding issues?
And at the very end… what the hell is that? He is either retarded (unlikely) or intentionally playing dumb (bingo) because he must very well know that he was asked to clarify on the questions that were brought up by his previous post (about the expectations in regards to the patch) and not some rather unimportant questions about the graphics engine.

… continued below…
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May 21st, 2007, 02:37
… continued from above…

5) Then today (May 20), Ralf pops up again and says… (please note that this was very difficult to translate since his post barely made any sense in German… it's sometimes not clear who or what exactly he is referring to… this post is a mess, even in German)…


In regards to the off-topic stuff:
Announcements/information regarding patches and other things are traditionally made by the publisher.
And that is all fine and well.
And they don't belong here in this thread which -BTW- was established by staff members in order to answer factual questions about the medium and Gothic III in particular. And they are doing this in their spare time, too.
This is not the place for press announcements - neither in insinuation nor can we comment on rumors- because there are too many already- and I'm sure that we can spend our time in more reasonable ways, don't you agree?

My own private opinion is that you should not wait until the end of time before starting the game.
Makes sense, too, if you want to engage in discussions about the game as well, right?
Warts and all… the most current patched version always needs to be the basis of any discussion.

I frequently read posts on here at WoG where I can recognize that the poster has not played the game but yet has a very strong opinion about it.

There was no hint about the patch or a release date made in this thread. Sorry.

Of course, I am aware that there is a bit of a vacuum regarding any info about the patch but as I said:
Official information will only be made available by the publisher or by the management of Piranha Bytes.
Please do not send me any further PMs - there's nothing else I can tell you.


So… first HE (and the person who removed the links and logos) goes and plants these rumors all by HIMSELF and then he refuses any responsibility for spreading any such rumors and pretends like it's all the community's own fault that they began speculations on the basis of his previous posts. WTF? No way, Jose. Someone here is -due to the sudden public attention from PC Games- back-pedaling like Lance Armstrong in his heyday at Alpe d'Huez .
Seriously, this post is kind of outrageous if you look at what happened up to this point.

If Ralf seriously and honestly didn't want any rumors to spread then he should have provided clarification on his previous posts immediately or in a timely manner and not just when the shit hit the fan.

Besides, this is the first time I've seen him post on a Sunday. He usually only posts to that thread on business days. There must be something going on behind the scenes (he even said so… see above… "wheels are in motion"). Who is he trying to fool? Why does the community have to suffer (from having no patch and from being accused of spreading rumors etc) if the problem is between PB and JoWood and between them alone?

It seems kind of obvious to me that PB was trying to put some pressure on JoWood by going semi-public via WoG but it's really lame and cowardly of them to pull back now that the full public attention is there.
It is completely ridiculous to all of a sudden put everything that was said into a different context or to claim that it was never said (even though the posts are still there). Come on… we're not blind or stupid.
This Ralf guy needs to either man up, grow a pair and stand by his statements or he needs to respect the NDA fully (since he likes to quote it pretty often anyway) and just STFU. But this bullshit is just pathetic and reminds me more of the Iraqi Information Minister than anything else.

Edit: In all fairness, I would like to add that WoG have lifted their "no discussions about the patch or discussions about there being any problems/divorce between PB and JoWood are allowed" policy as of today (Sunday). They have created a new thread (that's already at four pages) where people are once again "free" to discuss the patch. I put "free" in parentheses because WoG mods have already threatened to go back to closing the thread if people speculate about stuff too much. Riiight… because there is absolutely no reason to speculate about anything and because it wasn't PB via Ralf who started it all, right?
Sorry but those WoG peeps need to shut down their site (or at least their forums) if they can't handle it. As the largest German fansite they do have a responsibility to allow at least somewhat open discussions about the most pressing community concerns (and the patch just happens to be the no. 1 topic). Or as some US ex-president put it: If they can't stand the heat, then they need to get out of the kitchen.
Last edited by Moriendor; May 21st, 2007 at 03:24.
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