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RPGWatch Forums » General Forums » Politics, Religion & other Controversies » CIA effectively stopped the extermination of the Polio virus - indirectly

Default CIA effectively stopped the extermination of the Polio virus - indirectly

July 11th, 2012, 20:55
Hello,

nice. I thought that I couldn't believe my eyes. that this must be unreal or a fake.

But it isn't.

Read it yourself :

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/10/he…pagewanted=all

Well, done. Very well done.

There must be very, VERY intelligent people out there in the CIA that they weren't able to foresee these side-effects …

… And once again the prejudice of "the Americans are arrogant people" is further strengthened … Very well done …

We say here in German : "They have done them a bear's service".

Alrik

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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July 11th, 2012, 21:14
Well it's not all that surprising is it? Think of all drone strikes which netted couple of militants and everybody else who just happened to be in the house at the time? Including women and children…
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July 11th, 2012, 21:33
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Hello,

nice. I thought that I couldn't believe my eyes. that this must be unreal or a fake.

But it isn't.

Read it yourself :

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/10/he…pagewanted=all

Well, done. Very well done.

There must be very, VERY intelligent people out there in the CIA that they weren't able to foresee these side-effects …

… And once again the prejudice of "the Americans are arrogant people" is further strengthened … Very well done …

We say here in German : "They have done them a bear's service".

Alrik
I'm sure that the CIA thought this might happen. They just felt that the benefits of getting OBL outweighed the costs. Ultimately it is the short-sighted, backwards idiots running villages in Pakistan's border region that are to blame if people are being denied vaccines. Here's an idea: DON'T HARBOR TERRORISTS AND YOU WON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT CIA SPIES!!!!!

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July 11th, 2012, 21:48
Originally Posted by blatantninja View Post
Here's an idea: DON'T HARBOR TERRORISTS AND YOU WON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT CIA SPIES!!!!!
Except that those "short-sighted, backwards idiots running villages" might not have much of a choice in this matter. If the only armed men in neighborhood are Taliban only a very brave (or foolhardy) will refuse them shelter.
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July 11th, 2012, 21:52
Nice try but:

After the ruse by Dr. Shakil Afridi was revealed by a British newspaper a year ago, angry villagers, especially in the lawless tribal areas on the Afghan border, chased off legitimate vaccinators, accusing them of being spies.

And then, late last month, Taliban commanders in two districts banned polio vaccination teams, saying they could not operate until the United States ended its drone strikes.
So yes, its 'angry villagers'. And then the Taliban, who doesn't give a shit about the well being of anyone anyway, ties it to drone strikes. Just more political maneuvering by them.

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July 11th, 2012, 21:59
errr…. and that's your argument BN? Even your quote makes a distinction between "lawless tribal areas" and Taliban districts so, based on the article itself, you can't say if "angry villagers" were actually harboring any militants can you?
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July 11th, 2012, 22:04
Lawless generally means not under the main government of Pakistan. Taliban controlled districts are called lawless.

If these angry villagers weren't harboring militants, why would they be so angry about the OBL raid?

If they choose to stand with the Taliban, then they get what they deserve.

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July 11th, 2012, 22:37
Originally Posted by blatantninja View Post
If these angry villagers weren't harboring militants, why would they be so angry about the OBL raid?
Because they distrust strangers? Quite a common problem in rural areas and not just in Pakistan.
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July 11th, 2012, 23:01
It's a bit of a step from nice feel-goodie distrust to chasing away with weapons, wouldn't you say?

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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July 11th, 2012, 23:04
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Because they distrust strangers? Quite a common problem in rural areas and not just in Pakistan.
Well that's their choice then. If they think it is preferable to let their children suffer from polio, so be it.

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July 11th, 2012, 23:13
Originally Posted by blatantninja View Post
Well that's their choice then. If they think it is preferable to let their children suffer from polio, so be it.
Counter-question: why did they make that call, do you think? If they get the choice between polio and accepting help from the American army and choose polio, what does that tell you of their opinion on the American army?

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July 11th, 2012, 23:24
Since none of us are actually over there seeing what happens in those border villages we are just postulating stuff here.

However, one factoid. The Pakistanis harbored OBL for many years. Therefore, I can understand the lack of trust all around.
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July 11th, 2012, 23:40
Originally Posted by Ubereil View Post
Counter-question: why did they make that call, do you think? If they get the choice between polio and accepting help from the American army and choose polio, what does that tell you of their opinion on the American army?

Übereil
It's not even the American Army doing the vaccines, their are NGO's that often aren't even affiliated remotely with the US.

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July 12th, 2012, 01:57
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
It's a bit of a step from nice feel-goodie distrust to chasing away with weapons, wouldn't you say?
yeah…there's such a lack of gun owning americans who do the same thing all the time, and in many cases don't hesitate to fire. though i will agree it is an ignorant position its a bit nieve to think that the natural human, animal instinct, is to distrust strangers especially i think if their going to stick something into your body. hell there's plenty in this country who aren't too fond of vacinnes, especially when it comes to giving them to their children.

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July 12th, 2012, 02:27
Quite right curious! And let's remember incidents when census workers were threatened with guns during 2011 census. So, apparently, USA also has its lawless tribal areas.
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July 12th, 2012, 12:41
What I still don't get over is the fact that seemingly no-one was thinking of possible side-effects like the really right now happening "anti"-movement there, if things became openly kown.

I do hope they thought that getting Bin Laden was more important than the health of the public.

Because that would be a move against humnity, imho, from a philosophical standpoint.

And they clearly don't seem to have philosophs among their ranks, people who thinik into the future and into the depths of their deeds.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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July 12th, 2012, 14:58
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
What I still don't get over is the fact that seemingly no-one was thinking of possible side-effects like the really right now happening "anti"-movement there, if things became openly kown.
What makes you think that?

I do hope they thought that getting Bin Laden was more important than the health of the public.

Because that would be a move against humnity, imho, from a philosophical standpoint.

And they clearly don't seem to have philosophs among their ranks, people who thinik into the future and into the depths of their deeds.
It's pretty simple. Polio is not a threat to the US. OBL was.

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July 12th, 2012, 19:07
Welcome to the world of realpolitik Alric!
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July 12th, 2012, 21:10
In general, masquerading military (possibly also intelligence) operations personnel as health-care units is bad. It causes mistrust in the local public, and it puts health-care workers in danger. Unfortunately everyone does it and the CIA operation is no worse than what the other sides do. In some way you can say it's a lesser infringement, in the sense that it wasn't the assault team they camouflaged this way.

OTOH, I've no doubt that Taliban and it's supporters use the event for what it's worth, politically.

dr pibbur who (from his ivoryish tower?) is saddened by the state of the world.

On a side note, from Global Polio Eradication Initiative:
"Conflict in southern Sudan has contributed to a weak health system, low routine immunization coverage and insufficient capacity to fully implement international polio outbreak response guidelines.

These factors have led to circulation of imported wild poliovirus that is suspected to have persisted for more than 12 months in the south of the country, and Sudan is classified as having re-established transmission. Furthermore, in 2009, re-established polioviruses in southern Sudan re-infected other, previously polio-free countries and areas. "

d++a58e++TU4567'!S'!89!A!WM!LuC++++u+++uF+++nR——nS ++++wC—-o++++wS——uLB++++
Last edited by pibbur who; July 12th, 2012 at 21:35.
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December 20th, 2012, 18:41
Newspaper says that another team trying to make people immune to this disease were killed by Taliban.

One Newspaper says the Taliban claim it was a "spy program" by "the CIA", while anoher newspaoper says the people there fear that it might make people impotent.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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