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Default Gothic 3 - JoWooD Comments on Patch Rumors

May 22nd, 2007, 11:08
I think that the people at PB know that they can´t afford to disappoint their customers
again. If the patch is cancelled it would do further damage to the Gothic brand that has already suffered so much.
You can treat your money-cow in a bad way but when you cut the head off because of a small amount of money that is needed for the patch it would be very short-sighted.
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May 22nd, 2007, 12:29
Really, what a bunch of whiners in the community! And it's not even an MMO we're talking about here.

Let's get back to reality and leave the conspiracy theories for those faked moon landings that the government's been trying to cover up (but we know, oh we know). There is every reason to believe that, at heart, the JoWooD and Piranha guys still have all the best intentions. The problem here is, as always, that game development these days is a huge investment. We're dealing with big amonunts of money here. So that will inevitably lead to some drama in many cases.

Projects fail in varying degrees of severity. They fail miserably sometimes. So maybe PB wasn't up to the task of creating such a huge open-ended RPG as Gothic 3 is with the budget that was allotted to them. I think that for companies like JoWooD and PB, any huge failure may well end in total disaster for those companies exactly because of the huge investment required and uncertain nature of game development. So they do everything to keep their head above the water and get some return on their investment. This is to be expected and reasonable. They are not simply hungry wolves out to steal as much of your money as they can.

What you end up with in the end, is a product that does not satisfy some of you. It happens. Tough shit. Reading all these comments is like reading "OMG WORST MOVIE EVER, WALKED OUT OF THEATER, WANT MY MONEY BACK!!" on imdb.com.

P.S. Beta testing a game would be a lot less fun than actually playing a buggy game. So I'm not exactly paying to beta test their game. Shees.

P.P.S. Complaining about avoidable feature A not working properly and dismissing the whole game as crap is not preferable to me to, yes, avoiding feature A and enjoying features B-Z.
Last edited by Thaurin; May 22nd, 2007 at 12:38.
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May 22nd, 2007, 14:07
Originally Posted by Amasius View Post
Maybe, but if we - the customers - buy bugged games again and again the devs will never make it a high priority to polish their games before release. And finally even don't patch them properly? *cough* I don't expect new RPGs to be bugfree, but the mess we got presented the recent years is just unbearable.

I vote with my purse and I will gladly support indie devs who make the kind of games I love like Spiderweb, Broken Hourglass of Iron Tower. The last two haven't proven anything yet, but I will buy their games no matter what. I trust them and if I got disappointed the wasted money is the last thing I'd complain about. I will buy G3 finally - budget and/or with an expansion but PB aren't indie anymore and I'm a burned child and have learned my lesson.
Sure. Unfortunately, the world just doesn't work that way. No matter what the intention, sometimes (well…always) the money is finite and sometimes things will go wrong and the money runs short. At that point, the majority of companies will attempt to find some compromise to stay afloat / get the product shipped / whatever rather than simply go under. I'm not suggesting it can't be done better or that you shouldn't be upset - that's your prerogative. The reality, however, is that no matter how much PB's communication policy pisses me off I am 100% they didn't ship Gothic 3 in that state for the sheer fun of it.

I know this because I've done it myself. Not in this industry, but I've owned a company that was quite successful (in its own way) for a period but we made some mistakes and suddenly we were in a precarious situation. We made decisions at that time (to keep our employees employed, for example) that we would have seen as unacceptable compromises in better times. Should we have stiffed our creditors and employees and gone under or rolled the dice and gambled with product quality in the hope of success? Dunno. Should we never have started in the first place unless we had another $100,000? Probably. But I bet there are games you love from a studio that was under capitalised but luck fell their way. I bet a few classics wouldn't have been made if some studios had said "we can only raise $2M. Sorry, I'm pulling out unless we can find $3M".

I also understand that withholding a purchase is a consumers only real way of influencing the market but…if you are a publisher, are you going to sink more money into a niche market or simply move to safer markets? In fact, this has already happened even without some consumer backlash. Ever think there aren't enough RPGs to play, other than dodgy Euro stuff? That's because the major publishers have already pulled out of this genre with the exception of "guaranteed" titles such as established IP (D&D), a handful of major studios (such as BioWare) and certain types of action/RPGs. A handful of 2nd-tier publishers (Dreamcatcher et al) then step into the void but they can't afford anything other than taking substantially finished Euro product, adding some cheap (bad) voice acting and dumping it onto the NA market in the hope it's good enough to be a minor hit if they are lucky.

That was too long. As for AoD and TBH, I don't get why you'd give them a free pass (assuming you'd have to when the time comes). You want to draw a line on quality — so draw it.

-= RPGWatch =-
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May 22nd, 2007, 14:19
The arguement that 'it doesn't matter, they already have our money for a bugged game' just doesn't work. I used to think that as well, but developers and publishers know that reputation is vital in the long term. Bugginess is the worst chain to hang around any developers neck, and it causes them no end of problems in getting future contracts.

It took Bethesda years to get over the harm to their reputation caused by Daggerfall and more so by Battlespire (the former was at least a decent game underneath). Even with the amazing graphics shown early on in Morrowinds development I think uptake of sales was very slow. But it gradually grew. Come to Oblivion and the momentum carried over - Morrowind had banished the buggy game reputation (it was only averagely buggy ) so people had more faith in Oblivion. The end result is clear to see for everyone
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May 22nd, 2007, 15:44
Just to play devils advocate: "Free" does not necessarily mean that the patch will not be distributed as part of an addon. You get "Free" stuff when you buy products all the time, but whether you consider them truly free or not depends on your point of view.

Not that I think they would do that, I just like playing devils advocate.

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May 22nd, 2007, 16:42
If they pull off something like that (e.g not patching the game free), they will lose customers.. g3 still feels like its in beta stage. When it was released, it felt like ALPHa. So we paid full price for a game which was clearly unfinished. Financially its not the end of the world (hehe..a friday night in the town can easily become more expensive ). Its merely the principle. If JW thinks its wasted money to complete their product and thus leave it unfinished..well sure they can do it, but its bad pr. I bought g3 knowing it wasn't ready, but nevertheless I wanted to support piranhas, because gothic is my favorite games. Next time I will probably wait the reviews. G3 is a wonderfull game underneath..it ain't just ready yet…
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May 22nd, 2007, 17:14
Obviously, they decided that between bad PR and substantial financial damage, the bad PR was the lesser evil. Very few companies are going to put their own wallets and lives on the line simply out of love for the product they are making. And with these huge projects, financial ruin and bankruptcy is a real possibility.

This contrary to what people are claiming, which is that they just got greedy and wanted MONIES ZOMG NOW!!!1
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May 22nd, 2007, 18:30
Breaking news alert . PB and JoWood have announced that they are going separate ways.

Edit: The translation…

Piranha Bytes and JoWooD to go separate ways

Essen, May 22 - 2007

After the final termination of negotiations over a continuation of the Gothic series, Piranha Bytes are forced to move in other directions.

Which titles are to be published under the Gothic brand in the nearer future is totally unclear at this point in time.

The negotiations which were held since November 2006 did not lead to an acceptable result for any of the parties involved.

Piranha Bytes can not meet the demands of the community by releasing a major patch with content-related changes.

The original idea was to develop this patch as a side-project along with an add-on or a further title (and to provide the patch as a free download as well as to include it with the boxes of said products).

Piranha Bytes:
Pluto 13 GmbH
Ruhrallee 63
45138 Essen
Last edited by Moriendor; May 22nd, 2007 at 18:41.
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May 22nd, 2007, 18:45
Holy. Shit. That sounds like more than just the patch might be down the gutter, but its wait and see at this point, I guess.
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May 22nd, 2007, 18:47
Weeell thats the end of that… Sad really…
So, is two worlds any good ?
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May 22nd, 2007, 18:49
Wow … that is pretty major stuff.

— Mike
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May 22nd, 2007, 18:53
Shit. Are you gonna make me eat my words now? But seriously, it really seems that PB is unable to fulfil community demands of a mega-patch, which means they screwed up their engine more than anyone thought.

Is this the end of PB?
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May 22nd, 2007, 18:55
No surprise. It could be read between the lines in the last two weeks.

This is going to get really dirty. Pluto 13 owns the Gothic brand, but what does JoWooD own? The "world", characters, publishing rights for future titles until 2017? Rights to make console conversions? One party will have to pay the other to unite the rights.

Even in the ideal situation that Pluto 13 earns everything aside G2 and G3, it certainly means that their next publisher can´t have any intention to spend resources on fixing a competing product.
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May 22nd, 2007, 19:02
From what Gorath says then if it isnt the end of PB it most certainly is of the
Gothic Brand…

Not that I would break a neck to support them after the way they handled this
thing…
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May 22nd, 2007, 19:03
Initial reaction is very

My take on it is that PB couldn't meet the demands for free so needed an add-on/expansion to help fund it. Maybe JoWood wanted the patch first, then an expansion, or maybe they didn't want an expansion at all. Bit of a catch 22.

Ultimately, I'd be very surpised if at least some elements of a patch didn't make it out eventually, though I think the scope might be turned down and the testing would obviously be reduced. It may take a while for it to come out tho..
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May 22nd, 2007, 19:05
Well … maybe we can hope for a $40 'collector's edition' with the patch included

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May 22nd, 2007, 19:08
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Well … maybe we can hope for a $40 'collector's edition' with the patch included
Well, since JoWood acquired DreamCatcher a while back, this almost seems like a definite possibility if DreamCatcher shared some of their "dirty little tricks" with JoWood .
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May 22nd, 2007, 19:12
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
Initial reaction is very

My take on it is that PB couldn't meet the demands for free so needed an add-on/expansion to help fund it. Maybe JoWood wanted the patch first, then an expansion, or maybe they didn't want an expansion at all. Bit of a catch 22.

Ultimately, I'd be very surpised if at least some elements of a patch didn't make it out eventually, though I think the scope might be turned down and the testing would obviously be reduced. It may take a while for it to come out tho..
Something like that, yeah. Sounds like Jowood didn't want to fund the patch alongside whatever "next project" they wanted PB to work on, and PB felt unable to do a patch of the scale they felt necessary without such additional funding. Which means that Jowood considers the Gothic brand damaged goods now after G3.

This will be a difficult situation for PB, and will at the very least delay the patch considerably - until they can secure funding from a new Publisher. What a mess.
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May 22nd, 2007, 19:12
Originally Posted by Moriendor View Post
Well, since JoWood acquired DreamCatcher a while back, this almost seems like a definite possibility if DreamCatcher shared some of their "dirty little tricks" with JoWood .
That was exactly what I had thought about when Gorath mentioned things getting ugly …

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May 22nd, 2007, 19:28
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
Something like that, yeah. Sounds like Jowood didn't want to fund the patch alongside whatever "next project" they wanted PB to work on, and PB felt unable to do a patch of the scale they felt necessary without such additional funding. Which means that Jowood considers the Gothic brand damaged goods now after G3.
I don't think they do, infact they tout it a lot in their corporate analysis:

Originally Posted by Euro Invest Bank AG JoWood analysis, April 07
Another leverage effect is the release of upcoming
titles on multiple platforms. Titles from other companies, such
as “The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion 4” proved that this is the right
method to reach more gamers, thereby increasing the value of
the brand along with respective revenues.
.
.
JoWooD management also indicated that it is already working
on a concept for Gothic on next-Gen.
Gothic is one of JoWooD’s strongest brand and the third part
was the most successful title in the history of the company with
very good reviews from the special-interest media and its
community.
It seems like they actually saw the potential for a console version of Gothic to reach especially the US market which they targeted for growth potential.
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